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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| wanderkind wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
Among ESL teachers in Korea, there have been child predators and child pornographers.
Most, if not all of them were members of this forum.
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At the least it is extremely (mathematically speaking) improbable. |
...You scrutinized my post through a convoluted lense, put a spin on it, and spun it off on a tangent...
Your reaction to my post is nonsense. It could have made sense if you simply asked for clarification of something you could not comprehend. |
It appears more as though you did what you accused UrbanMyth of doing.
It wasn't like they said "****ing MAGNETS, HOW DO THEY WORK?"
They just said they thought what you said was improbable ('extremely' is up for debate).
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That is clearly incorrect. TUM said it is mathematically impossible.
What he said was mathematically impossible is my statement.
And I'm just saying what is recorded verifiable history.
Several ESLers in Korea were prosecuted and publicized for being child predators and child pornographers.
Among them are former members of this forum. One of the cases is rather recent, and I had the experience of meeting the person.
Names could be named and threads could be linked, but that would be going off topic.
Your going to the effort of attempting to refute the facts is in fact going off topic. |
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Drew10
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| dairyairy wrote: |
| wanderkind wrote: |
| r2b2ct wrote: |
| wanderkind wrote: |
| I don't really understand the military curfew. They patrol certain areas because the service people can't be in those areas after a certain time. But do they have to be BACK to base by a certain time? Or just not in those neighbourhoods, and they can't return to base between certain hours? |
I have friends who are soldiers on Yongsan base. Between 1 and 5 they need to be on base. If they attempt to go on base between those hours or are found off base by the patrols, they will face harsh punishments. Oftentimes they will simply stay out all night in a non-patrolled area or dip into a hotel if they don't think they can make it back in time. TBH it seems pretty pointless to me and probably causes more problems than it solves. |
Yeah, really. They need to be 'on-base', but there's no actual accounting of who is on-base, and instead they try to spot people off-base? That's an absurd system.
(Labour intensive and ineffective - they must be taking their cues from Korean corporate culture ba-dum-tchshh) |
That's how the leadership can appear to be "proactive" without actually doing anything.
BTW, they can easily tell who is on and off post. They scan cards when they leave or enter the post. |
Incorrect, they only scan ID cards when you enter post. So there would be no record of who left and who didn't. |
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r2b2ct
Joined: 14 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Drew10 wrote: |
| dairyairy wrote: |
| wanderkind wrote: |
| r2b2ct wrote: |
| wanderkind wrote: |
| I don't really understand the military curfew. They patrol certain areas because the service people can't be in those areas after a certain time. But do they have to be BACK to base by a certain time? Or just not in those neighbourhoods, and they can't return to base between certain hours? |
I have friends who are soldiers on Yongsan base. Between 1 and 5 they need to be on base. If they attempt to go on base between those hours or are found off base by the patrols, they will face harsh punishments. Oftentimes they will simply stay out all night in a non-patrolled area or dip into a hotel if they don't think they can make it back in time. TBH it seems pretty pointless to me and probably causes more problems than it solves. |
Yeah, really. They need to be 'on-base', but there's no actual accounting of who is on-base, and instead they try to spot people off-base? That's an absurd system.
(Labour intensive and ineffective - they must be taking their cues from Korean corporate culture ba-dum-tchshh) |
That's how the leadership can appear to be "proactive" without actually doing anything.
BTW, they can easily tell who is on and off post. They scan cards when they leave or enter the post. |
Incorrect, they only scan ID cards when you enter post. So there would be no record of who left and who didn't. |
This is true. I have been on base several times as a visitor. The exit has no security guards. You basically walk through a one-way gate (a swivel barred door that only allows one way traffic) and go out. If they looked at the ID system, they would have no clue when you left. The security system is designed to keep unescorted people out, not track soldiers. Visitors need to check out and turn in the visitor card, but non-visitors just walk out. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| So they don't know who's off-post? That rewards those who can hide. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| dairyairy wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| As far as I understand - they have to be on base between certain hours. |
He didn't pass away until after 1 pm. If the curfew ended at 5 am then why weren't they bringing him in at 5:01 am? Or stick him in a taxi to a Korean hospital? Why? Because they didn't care. Don't blame the curfew for what happened. Blame those punks in the fight and those who were with him that night/early morning after the fight. |
Wow, aren't you combative.
Chill, man.
Just tossing that out there as a possible factor. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| dairyairy wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| As far as I understand - they have to be on base between certain hours. |
He didn't pass away until after 1 pm. If the curfew ended at 5 am then why weren't they bringing him in at 5:01 am? Or stick him in a taxi to a Korean hospital? Why? Because they didn't care. Don't blame the curfew for what happened. Blame those punks in the fight and those who were with him that night/early morning after the fight. |
Wow, aren't you combative.
Chill, man.
Just tossing that out there as a possible factor. |
"Combative"? No. Just disagreeing and explaining why the curfew is not the reason why this happened. There was plenty of time to get him medical care, either in a Korean facility or on post. All they had to do was put him in a taxi in Seoul and tell the taxi driver to get him to a hospital.
Somehow I think there's more to this story that will come out once those others who fought in the street contribute their sides of the story. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:36 am Post subject: |
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True, but part of it could be that they knew they were in the wrong - that they were out past curfew. A lot of service members feel very uncomfortable off base in regards to hospitals and such... initially, they might have been wanting to bring him back into the base when curfew was over - who knows? Honestly, I find that with young, possibly drunk, guys, there's often a series of bad decisions.
Was I blaming curfew? Take another read of my initial post on it. Notice anything that stands out - some oddly placed quotation marks perhaps?
My point was, maybe that played into their thinking - that they were out past curfew, and that the incident happened at that time. I'm guessing that they were just hoping the guy would get better, and that they could stroll back on base without any record of things being off. |
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johnny_russian
Joined: 24 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:48 am Post subject: |
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i think this tragedy happened due to a combination of the soldiers not wanting to get into trouble for breaking curfew (and being in a fight) together with them severely underestimating the severity of the situation.
i would guess that they thought the guy just got knocked out and that he would be fine after a few hours. in reality the poor guy ended up having a brain hemorrhage. if his friends knew that they probably would've taken him straight to base or to a hospital - i would hope at least. |
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r2b2ct
Joined: 14 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| johnny_russian wrote: |
i think this tragedy happened due to a combination of the soldiers not wanting to get into trouble for breaking curfew (and being in a fight) together with them severely underestimating the severity of the situation.
i would guess that they thought the guy just got knocked out and that he would be fine after a few hours. in reality the poor guy ended up having a brain hemorrhage. if his friends knew that they probably would've taken him straight to base or to a hospital - i would hope at least. |
I agree.
I hope the get the guy who killed him. Although it may be unlikely considering the other military witnesses would have to admit they violated curfew in order to help. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| It's not like the guys were doctors and had an MRI of his brain to determine that he had a cerebral hemorrhage. They're just dudes who got into a bar fight and their friend got beat. You're thinking get the guy somewhere to sleep it off and give him some ice. Not, "he has a life-threatening condition". |
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MedellinHeel
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: |
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this guy had to take a pretty good beating (serious repeated blows to the head) wither that or an unlucky fall / head strike.
any video of the fight been released? |
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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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I thought I read that the fight was intra-group? Like 4 people were out drinking together and 2 of them had a disagreement.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| It's not like the guys were doctors and had an MRI of his brain to determine that he had a cerebral hemorrhage. They're just dudes who got into a bar fight and their friend got beat. You're thinking get the guy somewhere to sleep it off and give him some ice. Not, "he has a life-threatening condition". |
Was it not reported that he was bleeding from the ears? I feel like, to most people, that's an indicator of a non-trivial injury. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.stripes.com/news/korean-bar-managers-say-troops-turned-down-offers-for-help-before-soldier-died-1.282973
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The men tending to a U.S. soldier after he was knocked out in an early-morning street brawl turned down multiple offers to call an ambulance, according to two managers at a hip hop club that he was thrown out of after getting into an argument with other troops.
Spc. Carl A. Lissone died about 10 hours later from a brain hemorrhage, following a train ride to a city some 40 miles away and a short stay in a hotel just outside the Army base where he was stationed.
Whether the beating alone killed Lissone, or whether immediate medical care may have saved his life could determine if any charges are filed.
South Korean police say all those involved — in the fight and Lissone’s trip to Pyeongtaek — were U.S. troops, including his alleged attacker, identified by a Pyeongtaek police official as a roughly 20-year-old U.S. servicemember stationed at Osan Air Base.
Few details have been released about the May 4 incident.
The U.S. military has taken the lead in the investigation with assistance from South Korean police, who interviewed Lissone’s suspected attacker as well as the soldiers who were with him. The National Forensic Service conducted an autopsy on Lissone; only the cause of death has been released so far.
Police said at least four U.S. servicemembers were involved in the fight that occurred well after the 1 a.m. curfew for troops here. It is unclear how many people tried to assist Lissone.
A Pyeongtaek police official on Wednesday could not confirm accounts by the managers of Club Naked in Hongdae, a popular entertainment district, that employees offered to call an ambulance for Lissone after the 3:45 a.m. altercation.
One of the managers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a bouncer kicked out a group of men who were arguing. He did not know how many were involved or what started the dispute.
When the manager went outside to smoke, he saw Lissone unconscious and leaning against the wall of a nearby store. He told his employees to bring water and paper towels to help clean him up but said it seemed “unthinkable” that the soldier might die.
South Korean police say that even though Lissone was bleeding from the nose and ears, the group took a train from Seoul to Pyeongtaek, home to U.S. Army Garrison Humphreys, where Lissone, an information technology specialist, was stationed with the 304th Expeditionary Signal Battalion, 1st Signal Brigade.
The group arrived around 7:30 a.m. at the Royal Hotel, about a five-minute walk from Humphreys in a run-down neighborhood of bars, restaurants, hotels and knockoff clothing stores geared toward the local military community. A hotel employee said two men were holding up Lissone and put him in a chair. As they checked into a room, the men told the desk clerk that Lissone was drunk and that they planned to stay for only a short rest.
Police said video footage recorded by a street camera showed a foreigner administering CPR to Lissone outside the hotel around 1 p.m. He was taken to a Pyeongtaek hospital at 1:16 p.m. and pronounced dead a short time later.
The Club Naked manager said that while U.S. troops usually don’t cause trouble at the club, the business decided after the incident to ban all servicemembers under 21 — a move that would reinforce the U.S. Forces Korea policy that bans drinking by troops under 21. The legal drinking age in South Korea is 19.
The Hongdae district has twice been placed off-limits to U.S. troops -- in 2007 after a U.S. servicemember raped a 67-year-old woman there and in December 2002-May 2006 because of unspecified “force-protection concerns.” No ban is currently in effect, and the area, with its thriving nightlife fueled by students from nearby universities, is a popular destination for U.S. servicemembers.
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 3:39 am Post subject: |
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Booze, youth and testosterone.
A lethal combination.
RIP to the young man and condolences to his family. It hurts when things like this happen but it is NOT an American thing, NOT an army thing and not a curfew thing.
It is young men with too much to drink being young men who had too much to drink (and we all know that drinking impairs your thinking).
Hopefully (doubtful but hopeful) a lesson will be learned and next time (and we all know that there will be a next time) they (whomever they may be) will seek medical attention for their friend before it's too late rather than trying to "sleep it off".
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
Booze, youth and testosterone.
A lethal combination.
RIP to the young man and condolences to his family. It hurts when things like this happen but it is NOT an American thing, NOT an army thing and not a curfew thing.
It is young men with too much to drink being young men who had too much to drink (and we all know that drinking impairs your thinking).
Hopefully (doubtful but hopeful) a lesson will be learned and next time (and we all know that there will be a next time) they (whomever they may be) will seek medical attention for their friend before it's too late rather than trying to "sleep it off". |
Actually, prisons are full of young men people who assaulted, raped, robbed, murdered, etc...and were not on alcohol.
And when alcohol is added....a dumb young man just gets dumber and dumber...and actually, any one at any age. |
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