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Speck7
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:38 pm Post subject: When Did Teaching English in Korea Jump the Shark? |
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| 2009? |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'd say 2008. I arrived in 2003, things got better until about 2008 - wages went up, single apartments (vs. shared) became common. It's been downhill since then.
Now public schools are getting bad (just being dickish for no reason, just to show they can), and uni salaries are really low. Definitely declining. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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2001
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 2008. Up until then it was possible to earn a lot of money. Good jobs were not that hard to get into then. Definitely there is a decline and it is continuing each year. Public school jobs are getting worse. (More BS/ worsening contracts.) Uni jobs are getting worse. (More paperwork and grading, less vacation time, less pay, less housing and housing allowances being offered.) After school jobs are getting worse. (Hours were recently increased from 20 contact hours a week to 25 contact hours a week with no increase in payment. Not sure about hagwons, but one way airfare seems to be becoming increasingly common. I've known a lot of people who got screwed by their school recently, too. |
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Scorpion
Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2014 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| I've known a lot of people who got screwed by their school recently, too. |
That's hardly a new development. Korean employers screwing people over is as old as the hills. |
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Old Painless
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| 1988 |
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salutbonjour
Joined: 22 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 4:49 am Post subject: |
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Wages have been around 2.0-2.1 M for a while, back when the won was worth more and the living expenses were lower. Monetarily Korea is much worse than before. That's on top of the criminal record check, blood and piss tests and having to have an actual college degree.
It's been a long continual slide into crappiness for ESL in Korea and 2014 is probably one of the worst declines with many hagwons cutting out the return flight ticket. Having to buy your own ticket comes out of your wallet, so it's a clear decline in wage. |
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Speck7
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| salutbonjour wrote: |
Wages have been around 2.0-2.1 M for a while, back when the won was worth more and the living expenses were lower. Monetarily Korea is much worse than before. That's on top of the criminal record check, blood and piss tests and having to have an actual college degree.
It's been a long continual slide into crappiness for ESL in Korea and 2014 is probably one of the worst declines with many hagwons cutting out the return flight ticket. Having to buy your own ticket comes out of your wallet, so it's a clear decline in wage. |
Believe it or not, 2.2 mill is about all we're worth. With the English boom came an accompanying ascent in salary. It reached the threshold very fast and stayed there because no one is going to pay us any more than that, we are getting paid what market dictates we're worth, and equilibrium seems to be about where we're at right now.
I certainly don't expect a hagwon boss to dole out more than 2.5 and no one else should too. That's why you need to do something to supplement your income (side jobs/tutoring (legally of course)) or get out of Korea and head back home and put your nose to the grindstone and get that career job you had in mind way back then when you were learning it in college.
Last edited by Speck7 on Tue May 20, 2014 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| Speck7 wrote: |
| salutbonjour wrote: |
Wages have been around 2.0-2.1 M for a while, back when the won was worth more and the living expenses were lower. Monetarily Korea is much worse than before. That's on top of the criminal record check, blood and piss tests and having to have an actual college degree.
It's been a long continual slide into crappiness for ESL in Korea and 2014 is probably one of the worst declines with many hagwons cutting out the return flight ticket. Having to buy your own ticket comes out of your wallet, so it's a clear decline in wage. |
Believe it or not, 2.2 mill is about all we're worth. With the English boom came an accompanying ascent in salary. It reached the threshold very fast and stayed there because no one is going to pay us any more than that, we are getting paid what we're worth for the job we do.
I certainly don't expect a hagwon boss to dole out more than 2.5 and no one else should too. That's why you need to do something to supplement your income (side jobs/tutoring (legally of course)) or get out of Korea and head back home and put your nose to the grindstone and get that career job you had in mind way back then when you were learning it in college. |
I don't think we're worth much when you consider that testing includes multiple choice questions regarding grammar and some reading comprehension, all of which is taught by the Korean teacher. Sure, there are two or three make a sentence questions, but they have memorized every sentence in the book, so they just write one ofthose sentences and they're fine.
Now listening tests, maybe we're worth a dime. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It's been a long continual slide into crappiness for ESL in Korea and 2014 is probably one of the worst declines with many hagwons cutting out the return flight ticket. Having to buy your own ticket comes out of your wallet, so it's a clear decline in wage. |
It's been a long a continual slide into crappiness for ESL in general. Not just in Korea.
Full-time jobs are getting harder to come by in the west. In the 90s coould get full-time job at a school + benefits that would equate to a comfortable middle class lifestyle. Now, forget it. You'll have to piece together part-time jobs on contract for crap pay with crap hours. In the ME people say that it's is still OK but a far cry from what it once was. One of my uni profs had 2 flats paid off in under 5 years. That was around 300,000 pounds saved. That was the 80/90s though when the gettin' was good.
If you want to be an ESL lifer my advice to you is it better not be "some job" that you do to pay the bills. You'll end up hating it as you see your pay not increase like other professions and you continually get treated like a piece of garbage as employers know they can get more out of you for less. Sadly most ESL lifers fall into this category, especially in Korea. They don't hate the work but they sure don't care about it. It is just something that pays right now and there aren't any other options available. It's sad.
You might say "well people back home are miserable too! They clock in, clock out, rinse and repeat!" Yeah that's right. Most people in the rat race are like that. However at least at the end of the day, their wages increase somewhat and they can't get screwed at the drop of a hat by a crooked hagwon owner. Sure people lose their jobs, get surplused, whatever, but they have way more security than your little 2.5 million a month uni job that could go poof. They also aren't considered losers by the society they are living in. Although unfair, ESL teachers in Asia by and large are considered losers and that stereotype isn't going away anytime soon. 15-20 years ago that wasn't the case. Now things have changed. I for one don't want to be associated with that stereotype. |
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Sesame
Joined: 16 Mar 2014
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's been a long continual slide into crappiness for ESL in Korea and 2014 is probably one of the worst declines with many hagwons cutting out the return flight ticket. Having to buy your own ticket comes out of your wallet, so it's a clear decline in wage. |
It's been a long a continual slide into crappiness for ESL in general. Not just in Korea.
Full-time jobs are getting harder to come by in the west. In the 90s coould get full-time job at a school + benefits that would equate to a comfortable middle class lifestyle. Now, forget it. You'll have to piece together part-time jobs on contract for crap pay with crap hours. In the ME people say that it's is still OK but a far cry from what it once was. One of my uni profs had 2 flats paid off in under 5 years. That was around 300,000 pounds saved. That was the 80/90s though when the gettin' was good.
If you want to be an ESL lifer my advice to you is it better not be "some job" that you do to pay the bills. You'll end up hating it as you see your pay not increase like other professions and you continually get treated like a piece of garbage as employers know they can get more out of you for less. Sadly most ESL lifers fall into this category, especially in Korea. They don't hate the work but they sure don't care about it. It is just something that pays right now and there aren't any other options available. It's sad.
You might say "well people back home are miserable too! They clock in, clock out, rinse and repeat!" Yeah that's right. Most people in the rat race are like that. However at least at the end of the day, their wages increase somewhat and they can't get screwed at the drop of a hat by a crooked hagwon owner. Sure people lose their jobs, get surplused, whatever, but they have way more security than your little 2.5 million a month uni job that could go poof. They also aren't considered losers by the society they are living in. Although unfair, ESL teachers in Asia by and large are considered losers and that stereotype isn't going away anytime soon. 15-20 years ago that wasn't the case. Now things have changed. I for one don't want to be associated with that stereotype. |
Unfortunately you are correct. I'm married here, have a kid so this is what I have to do for the meantime until we can save enough to move back home.
I don't know about anyone else, but at 33, I feel way too old to be doing this, and I'm actually embarrassed to be noticed walking through the school gates sometimes. Or if I get off the bus at "blah blah blah 초등하교 입니다" I get a feeling that the people on the bus are thinking "loser". Yeah maybe I am a bit self conscience and probably no one cares. But anyway, I feel like it's a young guys job to teach here and Im here way past my prime. Of course my age does not dictate what kind of teacher I am, I guarantee I am just as good if not better than any younger people, but Korea's agism has infected me too. |
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misher
Joined: 14 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately you are correct. I'm married here, have a kid so this is what I have to do for the meantime until we can save enough to move back home.
I don't know about anyone else, but at 33, I feel way too old to be doing this, and I'm actually embarrassed to be noticed walking through the school gates sometimes. Or if I get off the bus at "blah blah blah 초등하교 입니다" I get a feeling that the people on the bus are thinking "loser". Yeah maybe I am a bit self conscience and probably no one cares. But anyway, I feel like it's a young guys job to teach here and Im here way past my prime. Of course my age does not dictate what kind of teacher I am, I guarantee I am just as good if not better than any younger people, but Korea's agism has infected me too. |
Well for the most part I don't think Korean's give two squats about English teachers. After all, like anyone else, they have things on their mind that are much more important. However, Korea is also a place that is heavily set on image and public perception, even more so than the west which is pretty hard to top IMO. Your job and whether you are married or not pretty much defines you after the age of 30 or so. That is when Korea can get cruel pretty quickly. Being a single 38 year old English teacher at a unigwon still partying in Hongdae isn't tricking anyone anymore. Especially when you've lived in the country so long and barely speak the language well. You're pretty much (fair or unfair it doesn't matter) branded by Koreans from the get go. Not married or no kids? hmmmm Doesn't speak Korean? hmmmm Lived in Korea for over 10 years? hmmmmm. You're screwed. Some people have thick skin and don't give 2 shits how the society that feeds them values their role. Call me shallow, but I'm not one of those people and I'd get tired at being on the defensive all the time. Especially as I got closer to my 40s. I always saw that 45-55 year old unigwon teacher guy sitting alone at the bar with his beer at a Ho Bar in Hongdae and almost felt badly for him. Everyone around him thought loser. Especially the Korean folk. Unfair? Yes, it is but I didn't make the rules.
Another thing is that hagwon/unigwon/ps jobs weren't designed to be careers. The powers that post those jobs are looking for someone who comes in for a few years, makes the kids (sorry many university students in Korea are still just kids looking for entertainment imo) happy and moves along. It's us that is trying to force the issue and stick around. Korea never wanted it this way. I remember knowing 2 guys that worked at Hongik that were booted out after there 4 year limit (was it 3?) was up. They basically begged to stay on and even take a pay cut. Admin wouldn't have it. Out you go. Fresh blood for the grinder. Rinse and repeat. That is the way it will always be for EFL in Korea. It won't get any better. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
| It's us that is trying to force the issue and stick around. Korea never wanted it this way. I remember knowing 2 guys that worked at Hongik that were booted out after there 4 year limit (was it 3?) was up. They basically begged to stay on and even take a pay cut. Admin wouldn't have it. Out you go. Fresh blood for the grinder. Rinse and repeat. That is the way it will always be for EFL in Korea. It won't get any better. |
I'm not saying some element of what you're describing doesn't exist at times, but isn't that particular example less a case of Koreans "not wanting us" and more of a case of university teachers automatically becoming permanent employees with greater employment security after a number of years or somesuch? I thought I remembered reading something like that, but maybe I'm misremembering.
I do think people who stick around for a long time and never try to assimilate at all run the risk of receiving some scorn, especially regarding language. One of the biggest things I hear again and again is complaints about foreigners not bothering to learn the language and the sense of disrespect it causes. It's not really wrong either; if you're going to stay here only a year or two, fine, but five years? Ten? More? Korean's not easy, but it's not that hard. If a lazy guy like myself could read novels after a few years, with a little actual diligence anyone should be able to acquire basic proficiency. It's not wanting to that's the problem, and when you move to a country and make it clear you don't want to learn the dominant language, you're essentially telling the people of that country to go to Hell. No surprise they might not like it. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| One of the biggest things I hear again and again is complaints about foreigners not bothering to learn the language and the sense of disrespect it causes. |
I imagine, though, that you hear these complaints again and again from people because they know you can speak Korean. Along the lines of 'you're one of the good foreigners etc etc...' Having been here 10 years and not knowing any Korean, I don't get to hear them. Sure, I probably get slagged off behind my back but that's fine by me, as long as it's not by my parents in law, who my wife assures me are not bothered. As long as there's still paid work around to do in my free time, I'll be doing that instead. And personally speaking, there's more of that around now than there was when I got here back in 2004. Not telling anyone to to go to hell by the way, just wanting to make the most financially out of my temporary, albeit quite long, stay here. |
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