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mr_thehorse
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:44 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
It still proves my point that you ARE allowed to defend yourself here.
Sure in an actual court of law you might lose...but that's a risk anywhere as well as back home.
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But is the risk of losing here... THE SAME as back home?
The laws here differ, as well as the interpretation and application of them, and that's if they follow the laws in the books in the first place.
Adherence to truth here differs as well. And if it's your word against a local's and some random passerby's, guess who they are going to believe?
Plus, I've known a few lawyers and law students here, and the law system here seems almost as half-baked as the traffic rules here. And let's not get started on the keystone cops, who will also be in the legal mix testifying against you.
When someone says "You aren't allowed to defend yourself here"... it effectively means you will almost certainly lose in court or even before the court battle.
(If we're throwing out random examples to try to make a point, here's one of mine:
A friend never threw a punch but took multiple kicks and punches from a local, luckily all on CCTV. The police initially believed the crazy local that he had been attacked by the foreigner. The CCTV proved him wrong, but the police warned the foreigner that simply grabbing the other guy's jacket was against the law and was an assault! This was while he was getting punched in the face! The local got NO warnings, was treated very well, and his dad came to pick him and then tried to intimidate the foreigner into not pressing charges, and when that didn't work, the bribe offers began... all in front of the police!
This is not really an environment where people should expect the same legal standards as back home, and even if there are laws on the books here, the actual reality will likely play out much differently.) |
So, what happened to your friend? Did he accept the blood money or did he actually demand charges be pressed? I'd have refused the money and demand charges be pressed. The dad was adamant because he didn't want his son to have a conviction his record. I'd have let him get one so he would have a hard time getting a job and let him enjoy the rest of his life.
In my case, there was no one around and no CCTV. So, if it had of come to blows, I'm assuming two lying Koreans and one truth telling foriegner would have the cops siding with his own countrymen. Some coteachers did tell me to get a dashcam.
I'd have probably been screwed either way. Like I said, when it gets to the point that I no longer care a smackdown will come even I get smacked around too. I'm not going to go looking for it. But, you just wish some of these arrogant obnoxious idiots would learn some humility.
That said, there are a lot of decent folks here, including many Korean guys. I just get the feeling that not many will help you if you get into a jam. Though I could be wrong. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Back to the original question-- leave Korea when being here is no longer in your interests. Simply put, many waste the prime years of their lives here when they have no desire or interest in staying long term (and I've posted before about the dangers of being over 40 in Korea). Dealing with Koreans is an acquired taste (though I consider other ethnic groups more annoying, but I digress) and yes, I've made a few good Korean friends over the many years I've been here, but well, you suffer for a reason. Paid off debt and built up a small nest egg? Good, now leave and start a life back home.
I can't speak for expats from other countries since I grew up in the U.S., but well, I remember an expat who left 11 years ago after being in Korea for seven years, and while he missed Korea in the beginning, he now says going back to the U.S. and starting a legal career (he's in a senior position now) was the best answer. He said that as a waegook, he had few career options in Korea though he was fluent in the language, and he also cited age discrimination in Korea, and that is a legit concern. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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bmaw01
Joined: 13 May 2013
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Quoting Simon and Martina? Time to go home, especially if you find yourself saying "Simon and Martina are right. K-Pop is the best music ever. 2 AM> The Beatles I can't wait for Big Bang's next comeback. When will Psy finally get the Grammy?  |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
From most to least dangerous (among the relevant countries):
South Africa
South Korea
United States
New Zealand
Canada
Australia
Ireland
United Kingdom
Driving in Korea (and being a pedestrian crossing the street at crosswalks) is for the most part (with the exception of South Africa) less safe than the countries from which we came. So be careful. |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
It still proves my point that you ARE allowed to defend yourself here.
Sure in an actual court of law you might lose...but that's a risk anywhere as well as back home.
|
But is the risk of losing here... THE SAME as back home?
The laws here differ, as well as the interpretation and application of them, and that's if they follow the laws in the books in the first place.
Adherence to truth here differs as well. And if it's your word against a local's and some random passerby's, guess who they are going to believe?
Plus, I've known a few lawyers and law students here, and the law system here seems almost as half-baked as the traffic rules here. And let's not get started on the keystone cops, who will also be in the legal mix testifying against you.
When someone says "You aren't allowed to defend yourself here"... it effectively means you will almost certainly lose in court or even before the court battle.
(If we're throwing out random examples to try to make a point, here's one of mine:
A friend never threw a punch but took multiple kicks and punches from a local, luckily all on CCTV. The police initially believed the crazy local that he had been attacked by the foreigner. The CCTV proved him wrong, but the police warned the foreigner that simply grabbing the other guy's jacket was against the law and was an assault! This was while he was getting punched in the face! The local got NO warnings, was treated very well, and his dad came to pick him and then tried to intimidate the foreigner into not pressing charges, and when that didn't work, the bribe offers began... all in front of the police!
This is not really an environment where people should expect the same legal standards as back home, and even if there are laws on the books here, the actual reality will likely play out much differently.) |
So, what happened to your friend? Did he accept the blood money or did he actually demand charges be pressed? I'd have refused the money and demand charges be pressed. The dad was adamant because he didn't want his son to have a conviction his record. I'd have let him get one so he would have a hard time getting a job and let him enjoy the rest of his life.
In my case, there was no one around and no CCTV. So, if it had of come to blows, I'm assuming two lying Koreans and one truth telling foriegner would have the cops siding with his own countrymen. Some coteachers did tell me to get a dashcam.
I'd have probably been screwed either way. Like I said, when it gets to the point that I no longer care a smackdown will come even I get smacked around too. I'm not going to go looking for it. But, you just wish some of these arrogant obnoxious idiots would learn some humility.
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The thing that will teach them humility (brute force) is not a great option.
As for the friend, as far as I know, he didn't take any bribe. They met privately to discuss a settlement, and apparently no sum was offered. The guy is a complete softie so I could see negotiations being a complete fail for him. Seems the dad didn't even respect him enough to throw out a figure and relied on intimidation instead. That part would have irked me even more.
As I understood it, my friend didn't press any personal charges against the guy. No idea why. If the situation were reversed, the Korean would have NO mercy for him. He claimed apparently the attacker still would get some kind of criminal record for doing what he did.
(UNLESS the dad ended up bribing someone else in the chain to make it all go away.) |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
From most to least dangerous (among the relevant countries):
South Africa
South Korea
United States
New Zealand
Canada
Australia
Ireland
United Kingdom
Driving in Korea (and being a pedestrian crossing the street at crosswalks) is for the most part (with the exception of South Africa) less safe than the countries from which we came. So be careful. |
And here there is no concept of pedestrians have the right of way, which is why cars tend to barge on through everywhere, instead of slowing or stopping for pedestrians.
You would think that would make the pedestrians here MORE aware than back home, but that doesn't seem to be the case either, leading to a bad mix of conditions.
But I'm not much better; I spaced out at a small intersection and walked into it and almost got plowed yesterday. There was plenty of distance to cross safely, but the car coming from far away was speeding through and had NO intention of slowing for any pedestrian. There was no light for him, but he was taking the right of way regardless.
I noticed this and stopped right before he sped by. Pretty sure both my legs would have been shattered at that speed. It was one of those situations where there was plenty of time where he COULD have slowed down or avoided the pedestrian, but had no intention of doing it. Not a hint of deceleration. That's a complete dick move back home, but totally normal here.
Back home it would not have been that much of an issue; if a pedestrian wanders into an intersection with plenty of space to stop, the cars WILL stop for them. That's generally NOT the case here. Yes, it's a different driving culture here, but still bad etiquette. It's just common decency to slow down or stop to avoid potentially smashing into people, even if the pedestrian made a mistake.
If you can judge a population by its driving then these guys don't come off too well. Sorry apologists, but it DOES make an impression. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I almost got ran over yesterday by a woman backing out of an alley. She was on her phone, started backing out, we jump back out of the way, I yelled at her to get off the phone and use her mirrors in English, she didn't understand me, she pulled back forward, we started to walk on the sidewalk behind her car, she starts to back out again, this time I hit the back of her car with my hand and yelled at her again and then she called me a crazy person.
That was a long sentence. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| dairyairy wrote: |
Quoting Simon and Martina? Time to go home, especially if you find yourself saying "Simon and Martina are right. K-Pop is the best music ever. 2 AM> The Beatles I can't wait for Big Bang's next comeback. When will Psy finally get the Grammy? |
For the record, I don't know anything else they wrote. A lot of blogs here are pretty lame, but their summary of driving had some points. It's the first one that describes Asian driving. I don't doubt it's worse in other Asian countries. Still have a lot of bad drivers here. Though some folks do seem to drive ok. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
It still proves my point that you ARE allowed to defend yourself here.
Sure in an actual court of law you might lose...but that's a risk anywhere as well as back home.
|
But is the risk of losing here... THE SAME as back home?
The laws here differ, as well as the interpretation and application of them, and that's if they follow the laws in the books in the first place.
Adherence to truth here differs as well. And if it's your word against a local's and some random passerby's, guess who they are going to believe?
Plus, I've known a few lawyers and law students here, and the law system here seems almost as half-baked as the traffic rules here. And let's not get started on the keystone cops, who will also be in the legal mix testifying against you.
When someone says "You aren't allowed to defend yourself here"... it effectively means you will almost certainly lose in court or even before the court battle.
(If we're throwing out random examples to try to make a point, here's one of mine:
A friend never threw a punch but took multiple kicks and punches from a local, luckily all on CCTV. The police initially believed the crazy local that he had been attacked by the foreigner. The CCTV proved him wrong, but the police warned the foreigner that simply grabbing the other guy's jacket was against the law and was an assault! This was while he was getting punched in the face! The local got NO warnings, was treated very well, and his dad came to pick him and then tried to intimidate the foreigner into not pressing charges, and when that didn't work, the bribe offers began... all in front of the police!
This is not really an environment where people should expect the same legal standards as back home, and even if there are laws on the books here, the actual reality will likely play out much differently.) |
So, what happened to your friend? Did he accept the blood money or did he actually demand charges be pressed? I'd have refused the money and demand charges be pressed. The dad was adamant because he didn't want his son to have a conviction his record. I'd have let him get one so he would have a hard time getting a job and let him enjoy the rest of his life.
In my case, there was no one around and no CCTV. So, if it had of come to blows, I'm assuming two lying Koreans and one truth telling foriegner would have the cops siding with his own countrymen. Some coteachers did tell me to get a dashcam.
I'd have probably been screwed either way. Like I said, when it gets to the point that I no longer care a smackdown will come even I get smacked around too. I'm not going to go looking for it. But, you just wish some of these arrogant obnoxious idiots would learn some humility.
|
The thing that will teach them humility (brute force) is not a great option.
As for the friend, as far as I know, he didn't take any bribe. They met privately to discuss a settlement, and apparently no sum was offered. The guy is a complete softie so I could see negotiations being a complete fail for him. Seems the dad didn't even respect him enough to throw out a figure and relied on intimidation instead. That part would have irked me even more.
As I understood it, my friend didn't press any personal charges against the guy. No idea why. If the situation were reversed, the Korean would have NO mercy for him. He claimed apparently the attacker still would get some kind of criminal record for doing what he did.
(UNLESS the dad ended up bribing someone else in the chain to make it all go away.) |
That's the gorilla like posturing some of them do here. But, I'm not clear if the cops would press charges automatically or your friend would have to insist on them. Hopefully the dude has criminal charges to contend with. Yeah, some of these guys are arrogant dicks.
I do think I send out an eff you vibe which does repel a lot of these idiots. But every once in a blue moon without trying you get the odd one (s) coming out of the woodwork. |
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