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mr_thehorse
Joined: 27 Aug 2013
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 Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:35 am Post subject: Re: The world's most incompetent police force? |
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| Fox wrote: |
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| Honestly, I'm always amazed at the "do nothing" attitude, and sheer incompetence, of Korea's police. |
The upside is it's not a police state here in Korea. They let people be... |
This is my feeling as well. |
and smithington goes down in flames again... |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Yup. I was j-walking once and a cop car blasted its siren, pulled over, and the two officers got out. I was fine with a ticket, and knew I was busted... but instead they wanted to lecture me on laws in Korea. As they were doing that, a number of scooters drove by on the sidewalk. When I asked them about those laws - they said, and I quote "Oh, those ppl are working hard. So it's ok." |
that is truly amazing...and backwards....I do like that they don't have the 'fu#k you' attitude that a lot of US police officers have.. |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Korean friends (or friends’ of friends) who have had direct experience of some really bad/sad/highest level criminal behavior have ALL been let down by the police.
Korean judges (50+ males at least) are a JOKE!
Any Korean who tells you otherwise has either never had direct experience with them/is a 50+ male/or comes from a rich family (is connected.)
If I was ever accused of anything even remotely bad, even if I had CCTV proving my innocence, I would seriously think about getting out of Korea ASAP.
Even the President, who recently went on TV and said the Seowl owner god guy was a criminal and should be in jail - very democratic!
I think judges (in all countries) should be made to do a kind of MOT every 4-5 years to prove that they're still in touch with the real world.
They spend most of their lives hiding from the people that they've put in jail (understandable) generally living in the most expensive/nicest neighborhood’s, they're never on the 'street,' their kids go to the best schools, they generally only hang around with 'higher class people.'
The problem with Korea is there is no real 'hands on training' for any jobs.
They pass a test, by memorizing a book, then hey presto - go out and DO IT!
Korea being Korea, they feel that they can't ask for help/advice, so they just bumble through, @$%#@ing up and learning (hopefully) from their mistakes! |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Are you wondering why the police are leery of storming a religious building, amidst a media circus, that has a bunch of cultists inside, where said cult has a history of suicidal incidents?
This isn't just a Korean culture thing. Most governments that aren't run by autocrats tend to be cautious about such things. Something about said cult leader ordering his followers to all drink the kool-aid should he be arrested or the like tends to hold the authorities back as 500 dead people tends not to go over too well.
And yes, the what Lucas said about the history of the police and the military dictatorship. This isn't culture, this is history.
Or you could go live in the US and have the cops bust into your house and mow down your grandmother and blame it on her "resisting arrest" when she stands up holding her phone and some hopped up SWAT dude says "She's got a gun". Everyday we seem to get new viral videos of cops going crazy and abusing their authority.
Anyways, have you ever tried talking to KCops and asking them why things are the way they are? Or do you just sit from afar and mock them? |
This is so chock-full of stupid I don't know where to begin. It's one thing to be cautious about arresting a cult leader due to unforseen consequences, but do keep him under surveillence and seize him when the time is opportune. Don't let trucks and cars go in and out of the compound unchecked. And don't be sleeping in your frigging police car.
And yes, the incompetence of Korea's police emphatically is about culture. Germany had an authoritarian past but today it doesn't have incompetent 'do nothing' police the way Korea does. Nor does former East Germany which endured a second type of authoritarian police force after the collapse of Naziism. Yet it has responsible, competent policing today. So it is about culture. Saying it's "about history and not culture" is just idiotic. You make it sound as if the two things have nothing to do with each other.
The correct reaction to abusive police under an authoritarian regime is to reform the police along democratic lines, making them accountable to the law. It's just batshit crazy to go to the other extreme and have basically no policing at all. That's in nobody's interest. Korea has the highest rate of pedestrian road fatalities in the OECD because the police aren't doing their jobs. No policing can be as destructive as bad policing. Lives are being lost because the police are not doing their jobs.
Honestly, do I really need to explain this to you? |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Korea is a great place to be if you want to break the law, but not so good if you need the law on your side. I have never needed the services of Korea's finest, and judging by the general degree of incompetence and cluelessness that pervades almost all levels of Korean society, I wouldn't expect much of them.
Korea seems content to accept ineptitude until something disastrous eventually happens (ie Sewol) - which then makes them scratch their heads and point fingers - before going back to the same old routine. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I should also add that the two times me or anyone I know has actually needed the police theyve been up to the task. One involved a B&E by a landlord on an NET. There wss no direct evidence, but the police really made the guy uncomfortable and he sold the building shortly thereafter. Another B&E on an NET involved the cops looking into it for over two months and eventually catching the guy, recovering the property and charging the offender, a Korean. As for me, the only other experience I had was being broken down roadside, and the cops helping me tell the tow truck guy where to go.
Thats not to say that there arent serious problems, but they arent total buffoons. I dont really care about the scooter on sidewalk thing or sidewalk parking within crrtain limits (low speed, truck offloading goods). The exigencies of commerce demand it. The flip side is the joke that is New York City where Coca Cola drivers will get hundreds of dollars in tickets everyday and the company has lawyers to carry baketfuls if tickets inti court everymonth to reach a settlement. The whole thing is a joke. A big shakedown.
Lastly, if the police were truly so incompetant, you'd leave. People who live in places with truly corrupt and ineffective police rapidly leave their homes and jobs. They.are called 'refugees'. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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I should also add that the two times me or anyone I know has actually needed the police theyve been up to the task. One involved a B&E by a landlord on an NET. There wss no direct evidence, but the police really made the guy uncomfortable and he sold the building shortly thereafter. Another B&E on an NET involved the cops looking into it for over two months and eventually catching the guy, recovering the property and charging the offender, a Korean. As for me, the only other experience I had was being broken down roadside, and the cops helping me tell the tow truck guy where to go.
Thats not to say that there arent serious problems, but they arent total buffoons. I dont really care about the scooter on sidewalk thing or sidewalk parking within crrtain limits (low speed, truck offloading goods). The exigencies of commerce demand it. The flip side is the joke that is New York City where Coca Cola drivers will get hundreds of dollars in tickets everyday and the company has lawyers to carry baketfuls if tickets inti court everymonth to reach a settlement. The whole thing is a joke. A big shakedown.
Lastly, if the police were truly so incompetant, you'd leave. People who live in places with truly corrupt and ineffective police rapidly leave their homes and jobs. They.are called 'refugees'. |
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RangerMcGreggor
Joined: 12 Jan 2011
Location: Somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
The correct reaction to abusive police under an authoritarian regime is to reform the police along democratic lines, making them accountable to the law. |
The problem is that it's harder than it sounds. Germany had the advantage that the whole government system was torn to shreds and had a previous system to work with, but in Korea the process was carried mostly from the top in an attempt not to get overthrown. Thus you have a weird dichotomy where old useless farts who still view or run the system the old way and resist change. Then you have a population the despises the old system and pretty much don't even bother to try anymore... and this sorta junk happens.
And then if you try to reform things you get weird contradictory situations. The two most powerful judiciary bodies in Korea are the Supreme Court and the Constitutional Court. The Supreme Court is the oldest one and is super conservative following the old traditions while the Constitutional Court is a new super liberal one that is suppose to follow closer to western democracies like Germany. It has been as confusing as you can expect |
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wanderkind
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| .........Something about said cult leader ordering his followers to all drink the kool-aid should he be arrested or the like tends to hold the authorities back as 500 dead people tends not to go over too well......... |
(If that's even a threat that has been made and deemed substantial...)
500 people who would willingly kill themselves to protect from investigation a man who may
have contributed to criminal negligence leading to hundreds of deaths? That's who you understand the authorities being concerned about?
What about 250 children who already died against their will, breaking their fingers trying to cling to lives they hadn't yet had a chance to live? How did that go over?
FFS. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| wanderkind wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| .........Something about said cult leader ordering his followers to all drink the kool-aid should he be arrested or the like tends to hold the authorities back as 500 dead people tends not to go over too well......... |
(If that's even a threat that has been made and deemed substantial...)
500 people who would willingly kill themselves to protect from investigation a man who may have contributed to criminal negligence leading to hundreds of deaths? That's who you understand the authorities being concerned about? What about 250 children who already died against their will, breaking their fingers trying to cling to lives they hadn't yet had a chance to live? How did that go over?
FFS. |
My sentiments exactly. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| orosee wrote: |
Korea would be the perfect place for paid vigilantes (actually a business idea of mine)! Imagine the money you could make by just taking 25% of Western-level fines (especially European fines) on every car that's parking on the pavement or blocking a pedestrian crossing in Itaewon alone? Or the "valet parking" at Between or Prime Cut or the cool dudes who drive through the walking street area behind Hamilton every weekend? Or the Harley owners who speed along at full blast every 3AM? Environmental fines for all honkers who honk without a hazard, red light runners (3 for every traffic light, every cycle) and a mandatory arrest where pedestrians are even close to being in danger of being hit.
You could work a single pedestrian crossing for an hour between lessons and return from Korea a rich man/woman after a single tour of duty, or simply extend your holiday (get a working holiday visa first).
First to be fined by my fine troupe of traffic vigilantes would be the three police cars that block road and pavement in front of Itaewon police station, next would be all tour buses, in particular the ones that stop in front of the fire station.
Get all traffic lights at Jeil Building intersection and write at least 6 fines every red light cycle (about 3-4 minutes), set the fine at $100 ($25 commission) and you do the math if that's more profitable than doing privates. All it needs is a presidential decree to create a voluntary vigilante waygukin police force.
Unfortunately since Itaewon is now 90% Korean visitors, nobody but me seems to care... so sad...  |
They did that for a while. You got some kind of fee for taking photos of people running red lights. I don't know if it included parking violations though. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Anyways, have you ever tried talking to KCops and asking them why things are the way they are? Or do you just sit from afar and mock them? |
Yup. I was j-walking once and a cop car blasted its siren, pulled over, and the two officers got out. I was fine with a ticket, and knew I was busted... but instead they wanted to lecture me on laws in Korea. As they were doing that, a number of scooters drove by on the sidewalk. When I asked them about those laws - they said, and I quote "Oh, those ppl are working hard. So it's ok." |
That is the common excuse. As long as someone is obviously engaged in work, then it's OK to break the law. Money yell talks in Korea.
Plus, it seems they view work as so onerous that anyone at work should be given special dispensation. Even the new PM said they were lazy. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: The world's most incompetent police force? |
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| Fox wrote: |
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| Honestly, I'm always amazed at the "do nothing" attitude, and sheer incompetence, of Korea's police. |
The upside is it's not a police state here in Korea. They let people be... |
This is my feeling as well. |
That didn't seem to be your feeling about the Gay Pride parade. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I should also add that the two times me or anyone I know has actually needed the police theyve been up to the task. One involved a B&E by a landlord on an NET. There wss no direct evidence, but the police really made the guy uncomfortable and he sold the building shortly thereafter. Another B&E on an NET involved the cops looking into it for over two months and eventually catching the guy, recovering the property and charging the offender, a Korean. As for me, the only other experience I had was being broken down roadside, and the cops helping me tell the tow truck guy where to go.
Thats not to say that there arent serious problems, but they arent total buffoons. I dont really care about the scooter on sidewalk thing or sidewalk parking within crrtain limits (low speed, truck offloading goods). The exigencies of commerce demand it. The flip side is the joke that is New York City where Coca Cola drivers will get hundreds of dollars in tickets everyday and the company has lawyers to carry baketfuls if tickets inti court everymonth to reach a settlement. The whole thing is a joke. A big shakedown.
Lastly, if the police were truly so incompetant, you'd leave. People who live in places with truly corrupt and ineffective police rapidly leave their homes and jobs. They.are called 'refugees'. |
Samsung pays the police on a monthly basis so their company buses can park illegally, run lights, speed etc. I would guess the other chaebols do the same and maybe some of the hagwons with their drivers and parking.
BTW, how about some evidence for the Coke story? I worked at Samsung and saw the payoffs. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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The highest percentage of pedestrian deaths in the OECD tells me that the live and let live attitude some are espousing here regarding law enforcement isn't working out too well.
It reminds me of a story I recently heard about the Korean adjossi who gets pulled over for speeding in the U.S. He starts arguing with the police officer and before he knows it he's got close to $1000 in tickets.
People won't respect the law unless they respect those enforcing it. And Korean police are often unworthy of such respect. |
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