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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject: Asiana pilots at fault in SF crash |
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The NTBS finally finished its investigation:
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Asiana Flight 214's pilots caused the crash last year of their airliner carrying more than 300 people by bungling a landing approach in San Francisco, including inadvertently deactivating the plane's key control for airspeed, the National Transportation Safety Board concluded Tuesday.
But the board also said the complexity of the Boeing 777's autothrottle and auto flight director — two of the plane's key systems for controlling flight — contributed to the accident. Materials provided to airlines by Boeing that fail to make clear under what conditions the autothrottle doesn't automatically maintain speed were also faulted. |
It reads like a very complete, even-handed decision IMO.
This was maybe not so surprising to those familiar with Asian plane passengers:
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| The two of three teens who were killed weren't wearing their seatbelts and were thrown from the plane. |
The flight attendants may have been at fault as well for not checking that all passengers were strapped in for the landing.
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| They ever find out if that one female passenger got run over by an emergency vehicle? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| They ever find out if that one female passenger got run over by an emergency vehicle? |
Yes. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| They ever find out if that one female passenger got run over by an emergency vehicle? |
Yes. |
So she did die from getting run over? That is some bad luck.
I don't see why the flight attendants might be at fault, they probably did check but they just unbuckled afterwards. Their entire job is based on a routine, I don't see them skipping a big part of the landing. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| They ever find out if that one female passenger got run over by an emergency vehicle? |
Yes. |
So she did die from getting run over? That is some bad luck.
I don't see why the flight attendants might be at fault, they probably did check but they just unbuckled afterwards. Their entire job is based on a routine, I don't see them skipping a big part of the landing. |
I think "might be" is the key here. Maybe they didn't check or maybe they didn't make sure the passengers buckled up when they instructed them to or maybe they just deferred to the passengers. We're back to that issue of enforcement or lack thereof in Korea. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| They ever find out if that one female passenger got run over by an emergency vehicle? |
Yes. |
So she did die from getting run over? That is some bad luck.
I don't see why the flight attendants might be at fault, they probably did check but they just unbuckled afterwards. Their entire job is based on a routine, I don't see them skipping a big part of the landing. |
I think "might be" is the key here. Maybe they didn't check or maybe they didn't make sure the passengers buckled up when they instructed them to or maybe they just deferred to the passengers. We're back to that issue of enforcement or lack thereof in Korea. |
They just do visual checks, so a passenger can just unbuckle later, or just make it look like it's buckled. I do it often, and on all kinds of airlines. It's not like they can manually check all 350 passengers before landing. They just can't be 100% sure. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| They ever find out if that one female passenger got run over by an emergency vehicle? |
Yes. |
So she did die from getting run over? That is some bad luck.
I don't see why the flight attendants might be at fault, they probably did check but they just unbuckled afterwards. Their entire job is based on a routine, I don't see them skipping a big part of the landing. |
I think "might be" is the key here. Maybe they didn't check or maybe they didn't make sure the passengers buckled up when they instructed them to or maybe they just deferred to the passengers. We're back to that issue of enforcement or lack thereof in Korea. |
They just do visual checks, so a passenger can just unbuckle later, or just make it look like it's buckled. I do it often, and on all kinds of airlines. It's not like they can manually check all 350 passengers before landing. They just can't be 100% sure. |
When I fly in the U.S., the attendants stand there and watch you do it or come back and look again to see it's buckled. But you're right that nothing's 100%. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not going to blame the Flight Attendants here for not ensuring that everyone should be buckled up at the point of landing. They most likely checked before landing but if a passenger decides to unbuckle before landing then the consequences are on them.
I find Korean flight attendants to be very competent at their job. I would take them over many of the European flight attendants that I've flown with who I find can be rather obnoxious.
Korean passengers on the other hand..... |
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r2b2ct
Joined: 14 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Asiana flight attendants seemed pretty nazi about regulations last time I flew with them. I had a layover in Japan and sadly decided to drink several beers to kill the time. Once the plane was preparing for takeoff (which of course lasted forever) I suddenly had to use the bathroom extremely badly. Long story short I struggled with a flight attendant for about a half hour trying to get up to use the bathroom before takeoff. I tried to make a break for it every time she walked off, but she physically forced me into my seat every time. I hate to be that kind of passenger, but I was in pain and seriously almost wet myself.  |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
| Korean passengers on the other hand..... |
They're getting better... imagine flying into Korea in the early-90's. That was an interesting thing to experience, on top of that smoking in-flight was still allowed. A plane full of Korean men, where smoking is allowed... |
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sweetrevenge
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:09 am Post subject: |
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So she did die from getting run over? That is some bad luck.
I don't see why the flight attendants might be at fault, they probably did check but they just unbuckled afterwards. Their entire job is based on a routine, I don't see them skipping a big part of the landing. |
The video was actually kind of infuriating. Thats right, you can google the video and it shows a fireman standing right next to the 17 year old on the ground and do absolutely nothing while you see the firetruck just run her over. How did these passenger get ejected from the plane anyway, aren't those windows really small? |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:27 am Post subject: |
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NTBS just made a huge MISTAKE. They were supposed to blame Obama.  |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I read about this today.
Before I headed back out to Korea again, I was in graduate school and my roommate was in school to be a pilot.
We talked about this issue and I explained to him that there were aspects of Korean culture that could have provided, possibly, a better outcome.
His jaw dropped. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| sweetrevenge wrote: |
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So she did die from getting run over? That is some bad luck.
I don't see why the flight attendants might be at fault, they probably did check but they just unbuckled afterwards. Their entire job is based on a routine, I don't see them skipping a big part of the landing. |
The video was actually kind of infuriating. Thats right, you can google the video and it shows a fireman standing right next to the 17 year old on the ground and do absolutely nothing while you see the firetruck just run her over. How did these passenger get ejected from the plane anyway, aren't those windows really small? |
The tail came off.
Just googled it. Just wow, never realized that happened. How can they just run over a body like that? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| sweetrevenge wrote: |
| Quote: |
So she did die from getting run over? That is some bad luck.
I don't see why the flight attendants might be at fault, they probably did check but they just unbuckled afterwards. Their entire job is based on a routine, I don't see them skipping a big part of the landing. |
The video was actually kind of infuriating. Thats right, you can google the video and it shows a fireman standing right next to the 17 year old on the ground and do absolutely nothing while you see the firetruck just run her over. How did these passenger get ejected from the plane anyway, aren't those windows really small? |
The tail came off.
Just googled it. Just wow, never realized that happened. How can they just run over a body like that? |
It was, apparently, covered in fire retardant foam. |
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