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Korean doctors are the best in the world!
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EZE

Joined: 05 May 2012

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:45 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

EZE wrote:

American doctors are better than Korean doctors, on the average. But I still greatly prefer Korea's healthcare system just for the fact that it costs a small fraction of overpriced American healthcare.

Until, and this is a big until, you have a problem more serious that a cold or stomachache. From then on everything is extra. But if you have to stay overnight you do get the opportunity to meet your roommates and their families and make some new friends.

If you go to a large hospital, the co-pays for even basic treatment are more expensive than in the U.S.

But more than likely, unless you had a good job with full benefits which most posting on this board (and their parents?) never seemed to have been able to secure, then your monthly payments, since they're based on your salary, are going to be less than in the U.S.

But man, I even got full medical benefits at a part-time job in the U.S., and the payments were about one-third of what I currently pay in SK.

I don't mean to insult anyone, but unless you lost your job in the Great Recession or are an illegal immigrant, you've got to be pretty much of a loser to have a college education and not be able to get a job that offers major medical as a benefit.

"A small fraction"--Is there a hyperbole virus going around? Very Happy

I had medical insurance, 401k, and so on at my job in the USA, but that doesn't change the fact that health care is a lot cheaper in South Korea.

Look at this link about appendectomies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendectomy

The median cost of an appendectomy in the USA is $33,611. I paid around $430 for my appendectomy in Gangnam last year. That included the surgery, the pain killers, the IVs, and three days in the general ward. I got to meet the families of the other patients, but I'm glad they were there.

I had two colonoscopies in Korea last year and paid only $100 or so for each one. I had a polyp removed during the second one, which drove up the cost, but it was still a small fraction of what a colonoscopy in the USA costs. I had one in the USA in 1996 and had to pay over $2000 even with Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance!

My vasectomy in Korea last year cost around $300. I thought about getting one in the USA ten years ago and would've had to have paid around $850. And yes, I had health insurance through my employer. $850 was the cost anyway. That was ten years ago, and I've heard there has been a lot of inflation in American health care over the past decade.

KimchiNinja

Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject:

EZE wrote:

The median cost of an appendectomy in the USA is $33,611.

That's totally insane!!

Another example, the cost for an MRI in the states is $2000-ish (varies a lot from $500 to $7000), if you can even convince them to give you one. But I get one for free each year in KR, just for preventative purposes they like to have a look around in there!

And the idea that "it is cheap therefore it must low quality" does not hold true.

EZE

Joined: 05 May 2012

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject:

KimchiNinja wrote:

Sure, that's true. The big reason why the US system sucks is because the INTENTION is not for the citizens to have health, the intention is to extract money from them. First you feed them junk and make profits, then they get sick and you make more profits with the "health care" system.

KR's system focuses on prevention, and actually considers things other than profit.

It's not every day I agree with KimchiNinja, but he nails it 100% correctly in this post.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:18 pm Post subject:

KimchiNinja wrote:

atwood wrote:

KimchiNinja wrote:

atwood wrote:

SK's so far behind the researchers didn't deign to even rank it.

The U.S. lagged mostly in efficiency due to the costs. But, as the researchers stated, that's already improving with Obamacare. Of course, that also points out their agenda--they greatly favor a universal health insurance system.

The US lagged all over the place, not just costs. Worst health, most inefficient, yet highest cost. A triple FAIL, ouch.

As far as that improving; it is not a survey of nation's irrational hopes and dreams on how their system will do in the future.

Worst health is due to all those great restaurants.

The focus is on prevention because the system can't afford more sick people. The hospitals are full to the gills as it is. Go into any hospital or clinic and there are usually so many people waiting that you would think everyone in Korea was sick.

As for profit, Korea isn't promoting medical tourism for its health. And go into any large hospital and the lobby resembles a very large bank with a long line of tellers, all taking deposits, no withdrawals allowed. Hospitals aren't immune to the corruption that infects so much of Korea, as well.

EZE

Joined: 05 May 2012

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

Go into any hospital or clinic and there are usually so many people waiting that you would think everyone in Korea was sick.

There are actually more people waiting in the USA. They're just waiting at home because the wait is ten days, two weeks, or more. Koreans (and I when I'm in Korea) go ahead and show up at the hospital because you'll be seen that very day, probably in well under an hour.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:18 pm Post subject:

EZE wrote:

atwood wrote:

Go into any hospital or clinic and there are usually so many people waiting that you would think everyone in Korea was sick.

What nonsense. I had no wait to see an orthopedic surgeon in the US.

When due to a new job I switched plans, I had to wait two weeks to see a new orthopedic surgeon, who just happened to be the surgeon for the city's NFL team. Needless to say, he did a great job.

I had no wait to see doctors at Columbia-Presbyterian Hospital.

The place it's tough to get an appointment in the U.S. is at the dentist if he's got a long-standing practice, but even then they'll find a way to squeeze you in.

I had surgery at Yonsei. I had to wait six months and they wanted me to wait even longer because they screwed up and lost the appointment. Fortunately, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Unfortunately, I'd have to call the surgery semi-successful.

And for return check-ups, even with an appointment I had to wait for at least an hour each time. But at least it was entertaining because every 20 minutes or so some dude would get up at start yelling at the receptionist about having to wait so long and wouldn't stop until they went and got a doctor to come out and calm him down, apologizing I assume.

BTW, why do you guys keep posting lies about the U.S.? What do you get out of it?

cabeza

Joined: 29 Sep 2012

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject:

I'm not American, but most Americans I talk to here in Korea praise The Korean health system.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:36 pm Post subject:

EZE wrote:

I agree the health system in the US has major problems, but to be fair you're comparing the cost of the procedure in the USA to what you happened to pay in Germany. I would expect the cost to be close, although I'd still think Germany would be cheaper due to generic drugs and a less corrupt insurance sector. But I wouldn't know for sure.

However, a friend of a friend of mine did have an emergency appendectomy here in Korea and it surely wasn't anywhere near $430. I don't know the exact cost, but he did have to call around to friends to collect a total in the millions of won, as our mutual friend told me he lent about 8 million himself. This was just for the procedure and one or two night's stay in a general public ward, all with the national health insurance we all have. There was medication and follow ups not included in that cost. And just like the horror stories I've heard of in the US, the doctors stabalized him but refused to perform the surgery until he had the cash in his hand, causing more medical problems.

I'm not slagging on the Korean system, though. It can be cheap, especially the medication, and adequate as long it's a minor issue. But if it's something bigger, as others have said, it can get very expensive, inconvenient and dicey. Even for myself, I had an issue a few years ago that required tests and specialists that were insanely expensive for what they were. the National health insurance did practically nothing. I don't know, I'm from Canada, so maybe I'm just spoiled. The thought of taking out my credit card at a health clinic of any sort is strange for me.

jazzmaster

Joined: 30 Sep 2013

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:38 am Post subject:

And once again it's become Korean healthcare Vs US healthcare. You guys really can't see beyond your own noses. And here's a heads up, just because the healthcare here is cheaper doesn't mean the doctors are better. It's a fact most of the best doctors in Korea go abroad to study their specialty. I've had a couple of botched operations here, and many other incidents where the local clinic doctors (and in one case the bigger hospitals) have shown themselves to be quacks.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:43 am Post subject:

jazzmaster wrote:

And once again it's become Korean healthcare Vs US healthcare. You guys really can't see beyond your own noses.
And here's a heads up, just because the healthcare here is cheaper doesn't mean the doctors are better. It's a fact most of the best doctors in Korea go abroad to study their specialty.

I've had a couple of botched operations here, and many other incidents where the local clinic doctors (and in one case the bigger hospitals) have shown themselves to be quacks.

I agree, but I just don't like to let untruths stand.

If they would just post they like the Korea medical system that's fine. Good for them. But they can't help but follow that without slagging healthcare in the U.S. with some at best half-truths.

Besides, if Korean healthcare were so great, would comparisons even be necessary?

EZE

Joined: 05 May 2012

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:58 am Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

I paid $430 for an emergency appendectomy at Joyfull Hospital at Bang Band Saegori in Gangnam last year. This was in Seoul, South Korea, not Germany. If your friends lent him millions of won, with one person alone chipping in 8 million, your "friend" took all of you for a ride. Now granted, I did have to pay around $100 for the abdominal ultrasound before the surgery. That was on one bill. The surgery, pain killers, the antibiotics and nutrients in the IV drips, meals, and three days in the general ward were on a separate bill that totaled around $430. I still have that bill. When I go home this winter, I'll scan a copy and post it online. I had to pay for the ultrasound upfront, but I paid for everything else as I was being discharged from the hospital. I would've gladly paid upfront, but I just paid when they told me to pay. The Korean patients were paying on the way out too. Around how much did all of you chip in to your friend, total?

EZE

Joined: 05 May 2012

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:08 am Post subject:

atwood wrote:

I've said it before once already in this thread and I'll say it again: I prefer American doctors. I think American doctors are, on the average, better than Korean doctors. I'm hardly slagging on the quality of American health care. Far from it. But because of the enormous gap in the costs, I greatly prefer South Korea's health care system.

When the median cost of an appendectomy in the USA is $33611 and I paid $430 for one in the most expensive neighborhood in South Korea, that's all I need to know. When I paid over $2000 (I had insurance) nearly 20 years ago for a colonoscopy and I pay $100 in Korea now for a colonoscopy, I prefer to pay $100 as opposed to $2000 or whatever one costs in the States now.

In the USA, most personal bankruptcies are caused by medical bills, surpassing credit cards and mortgage debt as the causes of personal bankruptcy. 78% of those Americans had health insurance and were still bankrupted by the US healthcare system.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2009/06/04/170805/78-percent-of-bankruptcy-filers-burdened-by-healthcare-expenses-had-health-insurance/

Last edited by EZE on Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:24 am; edited 1 time in total

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:23 am Post subject:

EZE wrote:

atwood wrote:

I've said it before once already in this thread and I'll say it again: I prefer American doctors. I think American doctors are, on the average, better than Korean doctors. I'm hardly slagging on the quality of American health care. Far from it. But because of the enormous gap in the costs, I greatly prefer South Korea's health care system.

When the median cost of an appendectomy in the USA is $33611 and I paid $430 for one in the most expensive neighborhood in South Korea, that's all I need to know.

In the USA, most personal bankruptcies are caused by medical bills, surpassing credit cards and mortgage debt as the causes of personal bankruptcy. 78% of those Americans had health insurance and were still bankrupted by the US healthcare system.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2009/06/04/170805/78-percent-of-bankruptcy-filers-burdened-by-healthcare-expenses-had-health-insurance/

That's what I mean by a half-truth. The great majority of Americans are insured and would more than likely pay less than the $430 you paid in SK, and would stay in either a semi-private or private room with nurses to assist them, not family, and with other better conditions.

My mother, for example, had a heart valve replaced in the US and paid less than $430 and that includes time in the ICU and then a private room.

Something you don't bother to mention about what you paid is that you have insurance for which you pay every month.

It's not always possible to compare apples to apples, but you've at least got to try. Say you get mcintosh to red delicious.

EZE

Joined: 05 May 2012

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:40 am Post subject:

atwood wrote:

I just looked at anecdotes online. It looks like the only Americans paying under $430 are either in the armed forces, on welfare, or in Nicaragua. Most say something like, "My bill was $27500 and I'm responsible for $4500. Insurance is picking up the rest." One person was shaking from seeing how much they owe. Others are defaulting. Again, most personal bankruptcies in the USA are caused by medical bills. That doesn't mean American doctors suck. They don't suck. But the hospitals are very, very expensive.

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:27 am Post subject:

EZE wrote:

atwood wrote:

How about a link? A $4500 deductible seems high.

Yes, if you have a major illness and don't have health insurance bankruptcy is a real possibility. But the same is true in Korea. That's one reason they legalized euthanasia, so that families wouldn't be bankrupted by cancer and the like.

Obamacare has already gotten more of the uninsured insured, and it's growing in popularity and effectiveness. It will get better as more of it goes into effect. Pre-existing conditions are now covered, making it easier for people to take new jobs or to start a small business. And premiums will drop.

And as you implied the poor are covered by Medicaid. What kind of coverage do you have in Korea if you're an adult and are unemployed? Just askin'.

My mother was insured by Blue Cross and Blue Shield. She was never in the service, on welfare, or traveled outside the U.S.

I wonder how many of the anecdote people you referred to could have afforded insurance and thinking they'd never need it, chose not to get it. When you roll the dice, sometimes you crap out.

I think there are good doctors in Korea. But I think the system, which is based on numbers, hamstrings them. I find it amusing that they ask you, when you're next, to go sit by the doctor's office door to save time.

I believe I misunderstood you when you posted about wait times. Yes, in Korea you don't always need an appointment, especially at the local clinics. They work on the barber shop model: walk-ins welcome!

But in the U.S. people don't rush to the doctor every time they get a runny nose or a stomach ache. Of course, they can stay home from work or school due to sickness and not have to show up with a doctor's note to prove they were sick or pretending to be sick as the case may be.

Sorry to be so long-winded but I'm waiting the US-Germany soccer match to come on.

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