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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:55 pm Post subject: question on "nothing but" |
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I have two questions about the following sentence that I hope someone can help with.
However, you should not drink coffee because coffee does nothing but make it hard to fall asleep.
1) In that sentence, is "nothing but" serving as an adverbial phrase?
2) What is the grammatical function of "does"?
Thanks for any help with this one. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:05 am Post subject: Re: question on "nothing but" |
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| raewon wrote: |
I have two questions about the following sentence that I hope someone can help with.
However, you should not drink coffee because coffee does nothing but make it hard to fall asleep.
1) In that sentence, is "nothing but" serving as an adverbial phrase?
2) What is the grammatical function of "does"?
Thanks for any help with this one. |
I think that "nothing" in that sentence is a noun. While "nothing but" can be used as an adverbial phrase, I don't think it is in this sentence. Therefore, I think "but" is just a conjunction. "Coffee" used the second time is a subject that requires a verb. So, "does" functions as a verb. |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply. I would like to know whether or not others agree, as I'm having trouble separating "nothing" from "but", which is why I was leaning towards adverbial phrase.
Thanks! |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| raewon wrote: |
Thanks for the reply. I would like to know whether or not others agree, as I'm having trouble separating "nothing" from "but", which is why I was leaning towards adverbial phrase.
Thanks! |
Well, I'm not a grammar expert, but it seems to me, in this case, they should be separated. Of course, I could be wrong. |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not arguing - I just like to have confirmation from 2 or 3 people - even in the case when they agree with me. Unless of course one of them is
T Cosmic H.
Thanks! |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:02 am Post subject: Re: question on "nothing but" |
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| raewon wrote: |
I have two questions about the following sentence that I hope someone can help with.
However, you should not drink coffee because coffee does nothing but make it hard to fall asleep.
1) In that sentence, is "nothing but" serving as an adverbial phrase?
2) What is the grammatical function of "does"?
Thanks for any help with this one. |
I do think I will give this a try, as well.
It may be easier to explain if we modify it a bit.
Coffee does make it hard to sleep.
as 'nothing but' can be easily removed...it becomes a little clearer that 'but' is not being used as a coordinator.
So...yes...once again, you are correct in thinking that 'nothing but' is being used as a phrase.
Does...good call on this.
Again...lets modify.
Coffee makes it hard to sleep.
Coffee does make it hard to sleep.
Does adds emphasis..or rebuttal in this type of situation.
Does nothing but...is being used to add emphasis to stress this rather controversial opinion.  Coffee is good.
He does nothing but sleep all day.
He sleeps all day.
Do...is acting as an auxiliary verb.
When 'do' acts in this manner, we use the base form of the main verb...the bare infinitive.
He sleeps.
He does sleep.
Think that covers most of your questions.
I do enjoy these threads.
Great work Raewon.
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:06 am Post subject: |
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Stain wrote:
| Quote: |
| I think that "nothing" in that sentence is a noun. While "nothing but" can be used as an adverbial phrase, I don't think it is in this sentence. Therefore, I think "but" is just a conjunction. "Coffee" used the second time is a subject that requires a verb. So, "does" functions as a verb. |
Does anyone else agree with Stain? I thought "adverbial phrase", then, after reading the above contribution, I thought perhaps "conjunction" was correct.
However, I've just come across the following two sentences in an online Oxford dictionary:
Oxford:
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She was too shaken and frightened to do anything else but feel safe in the arms of Peter Grayson.
She was shocked, too shock to do anything else but stare as he pulled her forward. |
These sentences are given under the section of "but" used as a preposition.
Now I'm back to square one. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: Re: question on "nothing but" |
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| raewon wrote: |
I have two questions about the following sentence that I hope someone can help with.
However, you should not drink coffee because coffee does nothing but make it hard to fall asleep.
1) In that sentence, is "nothing but" serving as an adverbial phrase?
2) What is the grammatical function of "does"?
Thanks for any help with this one. |
Try rewriting the sentence:
Other than make it hard to sleep, coffee does nothing.
Except for making it hard to sleep, coffee does nothing.
But for making it hard to sleep, coffee does nothing.
Coffee does nothing, other than make it hard to sleep.
Coffee does nothing, except make it hard to sleep.
Coffee does nothing, but make it hard to sleep.
The softness of the bed does nothing, but make it hard to sleep.
That bed does nothing, but make it hard to sleep. |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:51 am Post subject: |
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That's odd. The Cosmic Hum's reply was not there when I posted my last comment to this thread. Not sure why mine appears after.
Thanks to The Cosmic Hum, ontheway and Stain for the replies. All of them were helpful. Hope everyone has a great weekend. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| raewon wrote: |
That's odd. The Cosmic Hum's reply was not there when I posted my last comment to this thread. Not sure why mine appears after.
Thanks to The Cosmic Hum, ontheway and Stain for the replies. All of them were helpful. Hope everyone has a great weekend. |
Like Cosmic, I also enjoy your threads, even if I don't participate and just read, which I do when I don't have a clue. I learn quite a bit from those who post here. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| The only reason I thought 'nothing' and 'but' would be separated is because the sentence requires a comma between them due to another subject-verb that follows; although your examples from the Oxford dictionary excludes the comma. So, now I need to go back and learn about commas again. Maybe a comma is only needed with "and" and not "but". |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Anybody else agree? I'm still not sure about this one. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
| The only reason I thought 'nothing' and 'but' would be separated is because the sentence requires a comma between them due to another subject-verb that follows; although your examples from the Oxford dictionary excludes the comma. So, now I need to go back and learn about commas again. Maybe a comma is only needed with "and" and not "but". |
I think I see where you are coming from on this.
Not sure what you know already, so I hope this information is useful.
First...no comma is required in the original sentence.
You are right that IF a subject and verb followed but...then a comma could be used...it is prescribed but only formally.
However, in that sentence there is no subject after but.
And that is basically what it comes down to. Here is an example.
I know you want to learn, but you don't want to ask for help. (comma)
I know you want to learn but don't want to ask for help. (no comma)
By removing the (you) in the second independent clause, reduces the whole structure down to one independent clause.
Originally it was a compound sentence...comma is prescribed.
The second is now a simple sentence...no comma prescribed.
In that example, the comma is only a function of formal grammar.
That is (IC, coordinator IC ) IC = independent clause
Many grammarians avoid using the comma in these sentences because it is seldom a function of meaning. However, using it is never wrong, while leaving it out can sometimes cause alternative meanings.
Well, hope this is helpful. If not let me know.
Im sure we can clear this up without to much confusion.
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Stain wrote: |
| The only reason I thought 'nothing' and 'but' would be separated is because the sentence requires a comma between them due to another subject-verb that follows; although your examples from the Oxford dictionary excludes the comma. So, now I need to go back and learn about commas again. Maybe a comma is only needed with "and" and not "but". |
I think I see where you are coming from on this.
Not sure what you know already, so I hope this information is useful.
First...no comma is required in the original sentence.
You are right that IF a subject and verb followed but...then a comma could be used...it is prescribed but only formally.
However, in that sentence there is no subject after but.
And that is basically what it comes down to. Here is an example.
I know you want to learn, but you don't want to ask for help. (comma)
I know you want to learn but don't want to ask for help. (no comma)
By removing the (you) in the second independent clause, reduces the whole structure down to one independent clause.
Originally it was a compound sentence...comma is prescribed.
The second is now a simple sentence...no comma prescribed.
In that example, the comma is only a function of formal grammar.
That is (IC, coordinator IC ) IC = independent clause
Many grammarians avoid using the comma in these sentences because it is seldom a function of meaning. However, using it is never wrong, while leaving it out can sometimes cause alternative meanings.
Well, hope this is helpful. If not let me know.
Im sure we can clear this up without to much confusion.
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You're right Cosmic. I thought there was a subject after the but and never scrolled up to read it again, so my whole confusion was due to my laziness and not going back to look at that sentence. However, thanks for the info on commas. I've often wondered if I've been using them correctly. |
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