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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Usurname wrote: |
| Do you have successful experience not paying back anything? |
You have an interesting view on the concept of success. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| alongway wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Sorry, you are so incapable of following a logical path of fact and analysis. This entire topic and the ability to comprehend the discussion is just beyond your ken. |
There is nothing logical about what you've written. You are asking people to prove a negative for something you refuse to prove yourself and clearly have no actual knowledge about.
| Quote: |
Post a single case where you have the facts, the details and can cite the labor office, date, parties etc.
Just one.
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You are clueless. I said that there are no such cases from the labor office. That is a negative. So, there is nothing to show.
You claim that there are cases form the labor office, that is a positive. Prove it. Show them.
But you cannot. There are none.
And you cannot understand simple logic.
(... But if Trog can show some cases, that would be fine - since my initial request was for anyone who knows of any to show them. He told of court cases but no labor office decisions in favor of airfare. And he clearly stated that only one court case was only about airfare, but without other particulars to determine if there was an underlying reason for not chargning the teacher. The rest had muddying elements, but could also be relevant, however we have no details or cites.)
Yes, you have to show the case the proves your proposition. |
You asked for an example and I gave some. Now you're asking for more proof, not only to prove that I'm not lying but also to try to prove that there were no extraordinary circumstances surrounding the good fortune of those teachers who didn't have to pay back the cost of airfare (partially or in whole). As someone has already said, you’re moving the goal posts.
First of all, I don't know the case file numbers of those incidences that I mentioned. That’s not my job. Not my responsibility. Not my concern. I might have some of them noted somewhere but I'm not going to even look for them just to satisfy your curiosity (if you haven’t been to check the court records yourself already then I doubt giving you the case ID numbers would motivate you to check them out). I’m definitely not going to post names and other personal information about other people here on the forum - particularly not for the benefit of some anonymous person (you) on an internet forum. Even if I did then you would probably just want MORE proof. I'm sure that you'd soon be asking for an official translation of the case files and a sworn, notarize declaration from the translator and from the clerk who provided copies. Then you’d probably want me to set up a meeting with you and the judges who prevailed over the cases to describe to you (under oath, I presume) the different factors that influenced his decision and whether or not it MIGHT under some circumstances be considered legal to withhold money from someone’s salary for recruitment costs and in the end you’d just cherry pick the information to declare triumphantly that you still haven’t been provided proof that you’re wrong. If you want to find details about similar such cases then you are completely free to look for them. Cases like this are not generally sealed. You could find the entire transcripts if you want. You could even cherry pick the cases to tell us about the ones that favor your arguments. Get off your butt and do your own research.
The other reason that I’m not going to give you any more help here is that you clearly have no idea of how the law works here (and probably not in your home country either). You keep going on and on about cases at the labor board where people were awarded money or where an employer was ordered to pay the employee something. First of all, the LB ain’t gonna give you a single wooden nickel. The most that they’ll give you is a cup of tea or a candy from the bowl on someone’s desk. Second of all, they will not order your boss to do anything. They won’t order him to pay you. They won’t order him to pay you back money he withheld earlier for a deposit. The main reason that they won’t do these things is because they can’t. They have no power to do it and it’s not in their mandate. Courts do these things. The LB informs you of your rights (generally for major things related to employment, not general civil contract matters). They will likely help to negotiate for you and help to resolve issues. They will also advise other government institutions on things related to complaints filed with them (e.g., the court, immigration).
So… if your argument is that the LB has never ordered an employer to pay back money withheld for airfare or recruiting, then I completely agree with you. Furthermore, the pension office has never ordered an employer to pay back money withheld for airfare or recruiting. The post office has never ordered an employer to pay back money withheld for airfare or recruiting. The Ministry of Environment has never ordered an employer to pay back money withheld for airfare or recruiting. Even the BBQ chicken restaurant down the road from me (which has really nice crispy chicken and delivers at all hours) has never ordered an employer to pay back money withheld for airfare or recruiting. Why not? Because none of them have the power to order an employer to do so.
You might find complaints filed with the LB about pay being withheld (for airfare, recruitment, and whatever other thing you feel is legit). You might find cases where the issue was not resolved in favor of the employee. The one thing that you will NOT find at the LB is a case where the issue was resolved in favor of the employee. BUT that doesn't mean that it never was resolved. When the LB helps to negotiate a resolution, the main offer is for the employee to retract the complaint in exchange for the employer complying with the demands of the teacher (to some extent at least). The point though is that if the case is resolved, the employee retracts the complaint and no case against the employer exists. BUT if it’s not resolved (e.g. the school keeps the money) then the case will remain open. THOSE cases would remain on record. Beyond negotiations with the LB, you either go to court or just write it off as a life lesson and move on. Most people do the latter. So…. if there is a case in which money was withheld (for whatever reason) and the LB said that it was justified then that would be on record and you could tell us about it.
So, now it’s your turn to put your money where your mouth is. |
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Hokie21
Joined: 01 Mar 2011
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