Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

I've been researching the TOEFL quite a bit lately, doing the best I can using the internet and books. But I have a couple of technical questions that 'the Internet' does not seem to have a consensus answer for. I'd appreciate any informed opinions on them.

A) READING

1. Do you feel it is best for students to read the passage carefully before doing the questions? Or skim quickly to get a general idea (using accepted skimming techniques), or just jump right to the questions?

I'm aware that there is probably no ideal strategy for all students, and the best approach may depend on their level (or even natural capabilities). I know that when I practice taking the reading section, I actually take an approach that falls in the middle of reading carefully and skimming: I read evey line, but I really push the pace and don't necessarily grasp every detail initially.

2. Note-take: Do you feel e is any advantage in making notes about paragraph content? Certainly they need to be done quickly if at all. But are even quick notes justifiable given time constraints? I do tend to make a very quick note as to the content of each paragraph, but lately I have found that even such quick notes don't tend to offer much in terms of payback for the time invested. Most of the questions either tell you what paragraph the answers are in, or follow a sequential order. Even the summarization question doesn't seem much (if at all) easier to answer with notes. There may be some kind of focusing effect in taking notes in that while the end product offerslittle value, the process forces you to focus better.


WRITING

1. Integrated Writing Word Count: It says that you should write 150-225 words. Is that a suggested min. to max., or is the minimum 150-225 with no max? Are you penalized for going over 225? They do ask you to summarize, so I guess at some point you can be writing som many words that you can't really be summarizing. What kind of word count do you recommend?

2. Integrated Writing Listening/Reading Order: The prompts all ask you to summarizethe lecture and show how it relates to the reading--they never ask you to summarize the reading. Thus, most TOEFL experts agree that you need to provide more details from the listening than the reading. However, there is substantial disagreement as to whether you should start your paragraphs with the listening point or the reading points first. The prompts would seem to suggest the former; however, the natural pattern of most of the reading/listening passages suggest it is more logical to start with the reading even if you give more attention to the listening. The listening is often a direct response to the reading, and so reformulating it to present the listening points first can be awkward. However, this phenomenon may be more prevalent in the readily available TOEFL practice material than in actual TOEFL tests--the practice material in many TOEFL books can be quite different than the real stuff.

SPEAKING

1. Independent Speaking Answer Strcuture: Do you find it is better for students to have two main supporting points (the classic approach of : 'I think eating at home is better for a couple of reasons. First, it is healthier.....Second, it is more economical.......), or is it better to have one main supporting point and really develop it (Eating at home is better because it is healtheir.....[and go on for say 7 sentences devleoping that idea].

Lately, I have been hearing that the second approach is better for a lot of Asian students who often struggle during the 15 second preparation time. Coming up with one point is faster and easier.

[SeoulNate]

Used to grade the tests and still teach it from time to time.

Reading:

1. Skim for sure. The biggest two problems for most of the students are the new vocabulary and the shortness of the time. 39 questions in one hour is no easy task. You will HAVE to teach the students how to skim/scan correctly as most of them do not know how to utilize the skills well.

2. On the notes question, I generally do not recommend it as the time constraints do not allow for useful notes to be taken.

Writing:

1. Suggested min/min. There is no penalty for going over, but generally if the response loses any coherence due to the length, it will get pointed deduced. Also, if I saw an essay that was outside of the general required length by more than a few dozen words, I would look for some problem with it (which generally occurred due to rambling). It will get docked if it is shorter than 150 almost always though.

2. Both ways of writing are fine. Besides, the reading generally would get summarized in the introduction of the essay anyway. The actual tests (generally) has a pretty good split between material that: A) reading and lecture disagree; B) reading and lecture agree on one/two point(s) and disagree on others; C) The lecture supports the reading.

Speaking:

1. totally depends on the question. In my experience, the second approach that you mentioned is actually worse for many EFLers due to the fact that their English is going to struggle to talk about one topic for that long while still having enough things to say and not rambling or circle talking. In my opinion, it would be better to have them use 3-4 sentences on each topic so they do not have to think of more complex reasoning other than (reason, example, personal experience)

[Voyeur]

Thanks Nate. How long ago did you grade iBT?

From what I have seen, the vast majority of current iBT integrated writing tests feature the "casts doubt" on prompt, and a few the problem/solution. I've never had a recent student say they got a lecture that supports the reading, or a mix where some points are agreed with and others opposed.

[faeriehazel]

For the reading, I tell my students to write a very simple outline where they just jot down the topic of each paragraph in a few words as they're skimming. This is helpful when you're trying to go back and find details - the outline acts as a map so you can quickly go to the paragraph you need for any particular question.

As for the writing, I have never seen any questions where the reading and listening partially agree and partially disagree. The prompt always says either "supports" or "casts doubts on."

[Voyeur]

Doing some kind of outline for the reading is the classic approach. However, I believe it originally evolved during the CBT, when you could annotate the actual text. With the iBT, you now have to create this outline on blank paper, further complicating the process.

I've always taught this method, while stressing how quickly it needs to be done (if your notes take more than 60-90 seconds total it is not worth it). However, lately I've really begun to question the value of reading notes. When I last 'took' the test (I tend to do the 'fake' tests along with my when they have exams) I found that the actual notes did not help me at all when answering the questions. In particular, they didn't really help me much with the summary question (which is where I expected they would be most useful).

Now, this could be a result of my own English proficiency: different strategies are better suited to different test takers. There is also the possibility that the act of taking notes helps one focus their skimming efforts, even if the note product itself is not useful. This is pretty hard to measure, though.

[SeoulNate]

[Voyeur]

I generally teach Problem/Solution in addition to Casts Doubt On. The books I've been using recently don't even mention Agree With. I'll have to look into it.

I still haven't been able to find any satisfactory consensus on whether one needs to really follow the prompt and 'summarize the listening' (that is always begin with the listening point). This one has been tricky to solve. I've seen some websites and an older New Oriental book that insist you should (which makes sense given the prompt). However, this leads to (as I said earlier) logically awkward essays since in many cases the listening is a direct response to the reading and presenting the listening case first requires some rather sophisticated verbal gymnastics (for TOEFL students).