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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Stu_miller wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
You really have to think about the sheer scale of NY though - Seoul is about the size of a single borough. To really get an idea of that 24hr life, in almost every city I've been too, the action is happening at the centre of the city, the hotspots, the variety, the accessibility (clubs, bars, gyms, public transport, food etc)
NYC = Manhattan (Time Sq and Meatpacking district)
London = Piccadilly Circus and Soho
Milan = Navigli district and Girabaldi
Paris = Champs-Élysées
These central hubs offer it all at all hours... Seoul does not, instead we have a few select locations spread out across the city.
Seoul has Itaewon as the city hub for tourists and the most variety and access. After midnight... want to watch a movie? Trek to Yongsan (might be 2 movies showing - one Korean, one Hollywood). Shopping? Nope. Authentic non Korean food? Ha! Diners/cafés? Nope. Bowling/pool hall? Nope. Are there even any decent Karaoke rooms around? Want to sit outside and chill? Good luck. Casino? Gym? Don't know of any.
All of these thins you can find at late hours in other cities... and the people tend to be in a different state of mind e.g people will actually be out just to chill, watch a movie while others will shop before they head to the airport, others stumble out of clubs. Just being surrounded by a variety of activity. In Itaewon, most ppl aren't out past 2am unless they're partying. |
I can't speak for the other cities but don't exaggerate London's position as a 24 hour city. There's a big difference between saying some of these things can be found somewhere in the city, and implying like it's a 24-hour hub. In 24-hour terms, London has no shopping worth mentioning that I know of, few decent eateries, and other than some late night clubs, there really isn't much of a 24-hour culture there at all. New York absolutely slays London when it comes to 24-hourness (sic) |
What I specifically addressed was the central hubs that provide the access and variety. Have you been out in central London after 2am?
I didn't make any claim about London being a more 24hr city did I so I'm not sure why you commented on it. I agree NYC is much more of a 24hr city, so I don't see what your issue is with that.
So you posted to say 'don't exaggerate about London? It's pretty annoying when someone cherry picks a part of a post to disagree with and doesn't address anything else that they can agree on or share insight with  Nothing wrong with healthy debate 
EDIT: btw I'm not saying you don't have any valid points... in particular shopping you are right |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| After midnight... want to watch a movie? Trek to Yongsan (might be 2 movies showing - one Korean, one Hollywood). Shopping? Nope. Authentic non Korean food? Ha! Diners/cafés? Nope. Bowling/pool hall? Nope. Are there even any decent Karaoke rooms around? Want to sit outside and chill? Good luck. Casino? Gym? |
First, Seoul does not equal Itaewon. Itaewon was more of a district for GIs that evolved into the international zone thanks to its proximity to a bunch of consulates and embassies. Saying Itaewon is the big 24 hour spot is ridiculous. Really, that's Gangnam-Apgujeong.
The thing about Seoul is you can find late night shopping, food, coffee, bowling, pool, karaoke, and the casino scattered at various points around the city, not in any specific district. Basically there is usually at least one area in each Gu that goes on into the wee hours as far as bars and food go. I don't think you're really getting that in Staten.
While this spread out system isn't the greatest for tourists to do everything in one spot, its great for everyone else because they don't all have to go into one area. Usually they can find a late night spot within a 10 minute cab ride. Now, its not like a Hongdae or Itaewon or Gangnam or Dongdaemun (which really doesn't have a parallel in America), but its got enough to keep everyone happy.
I think the whole whole Seoul vs. NYC thing is a bit silly, they offer different stuff but both ARE very nightlife friendly in different ways (though I've never been to NYC, so I can't tell first hand, but its gotta have its reputation for a reason).
One more thing, as for the whole 24 hour ethnic food thing, I don't really get that. I mean maybe in New York you have some sort of expectation of finding 24 hour Indian/Ethiopian/Jamaican/Korean food, but at least where I lived it was pretty much diner food, pizza, or Mexican. Frankly, this isn't a problem with Seoul, its just reflective of consumer demand, in particular foreigner consumer demand. If foreign customers, which form the backbone of many of these places when they start out, patronized them into the wee hours, the businesses would stay open. But at 2AM, most people aren't concerned about getting their grub on. It's time to drink and club. You can't blame restaurant owners for not staying open 24 hours when the amount of business doesn't justify the costs.
I think that what really holds back Korea in the nightlife area is as people mentioned, late night subway service (however this is also what helps keep taxi rates affordable).
And while having a bunch of spread out areas is nice, you are right that one good "Mega Zone" for casinos, clubs, shopping, bars, restaurants, hotels, theaters, etc. would be nice. But that would be a massive civic project. |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| After midnight... want to watch a movie? Trek to Yongsan (might be 2 movies showing - one Korean, one Hollywood). Shopping? Nope. Authentic non Korean food? Ha! Diners/cafés? Nope. Bowling/pool hall? Nope. Are there even any decent Karaoke rooms around? Want to sit outside and chill? Good luck. Casino? Gym? |
First, Seoul does not equal Itaewon. Itaewon was more of a district for GIs that evolved into the international zone thanks to its proximity to a bunch of consulates and embassies. Saying Itaewon is the big 24 hour spot is ridiculous. Really, that's Gangnam-Apgujeong.
The thing about Seoul is you can find late night shopping, food, coffee, bowling, pool, karaoke, and the casino scattered at various points around the city, not in any specific district. Basically there is usually at least one area in each Gu that goes on into the wee hours as far as bars and food go. I don't think you're really getting that in Staten.
While this spread out system isn't the greatest for tourists to do everything in one spot, its great for everyone else because they don't all have to go into one area. Usually they can find a late night spot within a 10 minute cab ride. Now, its not like a Hongdae or Itaewon or Gangnam or Dongdaemun (which really doesn't have a parallel in America), but its got enough to keep everyone happy.
I think the whole whole Seoul vs. NYC thing is a bit silly, they offer different stuff but both ARE very nightlife friendly in different ways (though I've never been to NYC, so I can't tell first hand, but its gotta have its reputation for a reason).
One more thing, as for the whole 24 hour ethnic food thing, I don't really get that. I mean maybe in New York you have some sort of expectation of finding 24 hour Indian/Ethiopian/Jamaican/Korean food, but at least where I lived it was pretty much diner food, pizza, or Mexican. Frankly, this isn't a problem with Seoul, its just reflective of consumer demand, in particular foreigner consumer demand. If foreign customers, which form the backbone of many of these places when they start out, patronized them into the wee hours, the businesses would stay open. But at 2AM, most people aren't concerned about getting their grub on. It's time to drink and club. You can't blame restaurant owners for not staying open 24 hours when the amount of business doesn't justify the costs.
I think that what really holds back Korea in the nightlife area is as people mentioned, late night subway service (however this is also what helps keep taxi rates affordable).
And while having a bunch of spread out areas is nice, you are right that one good "Mega Zone" for casinos, clubs, shopping, bars, restaurants, hotels, theaters, etc. would be nice. But that would be a massive civic project. |
Question: Where did I suggest that Itaewon equals Seoul? Please don't make things up.
I was talking about central hubs, as in what is to be considered the most diverse and accessible/convenient part of the city for the things I highlighted. Most major cities have them... Seoul's is Itaewon - would you like to disagree with my point? Please, I'd be happy to hear your alternative suggestion.
I think people are smart enough to know the reasons why non-Korean eateries are not available at 2am, but so what? How does that add or take anything away from my point?
And even during the daytime, Itaewon has restaurants/cafes and a few sportswear stores... that's about it... so yes, Seoul's central hub is way behind imo. Yeah, sure make the argument that you can 'find' the same things as other cities but not in one place.
24hrs eh? Where's the daytime family entertainment? Kids playground/parks? Open green space? Outdoor markets? An outdoor space to sit down? The street buskers/entertainers? Amusement arcades?
Maybe there are reasons, I'm sure there are... but the result is that it can't be compared with the others I mentioned.
EDIT: Just re-read your post where you mention Apgu/Cheongdam as an alternative to Itaewon.... surely you are joking? I spent my first 2yrs in Seoul in those areas and apart from being very expensive ($15 for a beer), I found very little diversity, mostly rich Koreans/celebs, I guess some people would visit Rodeo for a bit of eye shopping. But I wouldn't say there's something for everyone... debatable? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| cam83 wrote: |
| Cheers for the intel, just goes to show how big Seoul really is if you include the surrounding areas (Incheon etc). Clearly it's a similar size city (sorry for the lie/exaggeration :p) which for me, makes it even more bizzare as to why they don't have a 24hr central hub. |
The thing that slightly peevs me is why they can't run the national trains all night. Maybe skip an hour say 2-4am (2 hours maintenance). And then run trains once an hour, on the various lines. I'm sure the trains would still be packed. |
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Savant
Joined: 25 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
| Cheers for the intel, just goes to show how big Seoul really is if you include the surrounding areas (Incheon etc). Clearly it's a similar size city (sorry for the lie/exaggeration :p) which for me, makes it even more bizzare as to why they don't have a 24hr central hub. |
The thing that slightly peevs me is why they can't run the national trains all night. Maybe skip an hour say 2-4am (2 hours maintenance). And then run trains once an hour, on the various lines. I'm sure the trains would still be packed. |
The taxi cartels wield a lot of influence it seems. |
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Stu_miller
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| cam83 wrote: |
| Stu_miller wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
You really have to think about the sheer scale of NY though - Seoul is about the size of a single borough. To really get an idea of that 24hr life, in almost every city I've been too, the action is happening at the centre of the city, the hotspots, the variety, the accessibility (clubs, bars, gyms, public transport, food etc)
NYC = Manhattan (Time Sq and Meatpacking district)
London = Piccadilly Circus and Soho
Milan = Navigli district and Girabaldi
Paris = Champs-Élysées
These central hubs offer it all at all hours... Seoul does not, instead we have a few select locations spread out across the city.
Seoul has Itaewon as the city hub for tourists and the most variety and access. After midnight... want to watch a movie? Trek to Yongsan (might be 2 movies showing - one Korean, one Hollywood). Shopping? Nope. Authentic non Korean food? Ha! Diners/cafés? Nope. Bowling/pool hall? Nope. Are there even any decent Karaoke rooms around? Want to sit outside and chill? Good luck. Casino? Gym? Don't know of any.
All of these thins you can find at late hours in other cities... and the people tend to be in a different state of mind e.g people will actually be out just to chill, watch a movie while others will shop before they head to the airport, others stumble out of clubs. Just being surrounded by a variety of activity. In Itaewon, most ppl aren't out past 2am unless they're partying. |
I can't speak for the other cities but don't exaggerate London's position as a 24 hour city. There's a big difference between saying some of these things can be found somewhere in the city, and implying like it's a 24-hour hub. In 24-hour terms, London has no shopping worth mentioning that I know of, few decent eateries, and other than some late night clubs, there really isn't much of a 24-hour culture there at all. New York absolutely slays London when it comes to 24-hourness (sic) |
What I specifically addressed was the central hubs that provide the access and variety. Have you been out in central London after 2am?
I didn't make any claim about London being a more 24hr city did I so I'm not sure why you commented on it. I agree NYC is much more of a 24hr city, so I don't see what your issue is with that.
So you posted to say 'don't exaggerate about London? It's pretty annoying when someone cherry picks a part of a post to disagree with and doesn't address anything else that they can agree on or share insight with Nothing wrong with healthy debate
EDIT: btw I'm not saying you don't have any valid points... in particular shopping you are right |
I know that tone can be difficult to detect in the written word; I may have been slightly blunt but my post wasn't intended as a slight on you. I was merely making an observation and commented based on my own experiences from when I used to live in London. In my opinion, Piccadilly Circus is a pretty horrible place to be at any time, and although it does have some 24-hour amenities (macdonalds, meat market clubs), I wouldn't promote it as a 24-hub (not saying that you were).
Soho is certainly more preferable in my view, and has some good nightlife and a few all-night eating and coffee options, and a much more interesting atmosphere. For those reasons, I'll give you that one  |
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cam83
Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Stu_miller wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
| Stu_miller wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
You really have to think about the sheer scale of NY though - Seoul is about the size of a single borough. To really get an idea of that 24hr life, in almost every city I've been too, the action is happening at the centre of the city, the hotspots, the variety, the accessibility (clubs, bars, gyms, public transport, food etc)
NYC = Manhattan (Time Sq and Meatpacking district)
London = Piccadilly Circus and Soho
Milan = Navigli district and Girabaldi
Paris = Champs-Élysées
These central hubs offer it all at all hours... Seoul does not, instead we have a few select locations spread out across the city.
Seoul has Itaewon as the city hub for tourists and the most variety and access. After midnight... want to watch a movie? Trek to Yongsan (might be 2 movies showing - one Korean, one Hollywood). Shopping? Nope. Authentic non Korean food? Ha! Diners/cafés? Nope. Bowling/pool hall? Nope. Are there even any decent Karaoke rooms around? Want to sit outside and chill? Good luck. Casino? Gym? Don't know of any.
All of these thins you can find at late hours in other cities... and the people tend to be in a different state of mind e.g people will actually be out just to chill, watch a movie while others will shop before they head to the airport, others stumble out of clubs. Just being surrounded by a variety of activity. In Itaewon, most ppl aren't out past 2am unless they're partying. |
I can't speak for the other cities but don't exaggerate London's position as a 24 hour city. There's a big difference between saying some of these things can be found somewhere in the city, and implying like it's a 24-hour hub. In 24-hour terms, London has no shopping worth mentioning that I know of, few decent eateries, and other than some late night clubs, there really isn't much of a 24-hour culture there at all. New York absolutely slays London when it comes to 24-hourness (sic) |
What I specifically addressed was the central hubs that provide the access and variety. Have you been out in central London after 2am?
I didn't make any claim about London being a more 24hr city did I so I'm not sure why you commented on it. I agree NYC is much more of a 24hr city, so I don't see what your issue is with that.
So you posted to say 'don't exaggerate about London? It's pretty annoying when someone cherry picks a part of a post to disagree with and doesn't address anything else that they can agree on or share insight with Nothing wrong with healthy debate
EDIT: btw I'm not saying you don't have any valid points... in particular shopping you are right |
I know that tone can be difficult to detect in the written word; I may have been slightly blunt but my post wasn't intended as a slight on you. I was merely making an observation and commented based on my own experiences from when I used to live in London. In my opinion, Piccadilly Circus is a pretty horrible place to be at any time, and although it does have some 24-hour amenities (macdonalds, meat market clubs), I wouldn't promote it as a 24-hub (not saying that you were).
Soho is certainly more preferable in my view, and has some good nightlife and a few all-night eating and coffee options, and a much more interesting atmosphere. For those reasons, I'll give you that one |
You have a point... p.circus is pretty bad if you're not a tourist, then again I always avoid it. Tourists prob love it though. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| I always found Seoul to be boring for the most part. Where are the game stores? Why are there hardly ever any decent live bands playing (my biggest gripe, for a city of its size this was absolutely abysmal). One good book store in Itaewon. Finding a good sandwich of all things was a hassle. Really hard finding good clothes/variety in clothes (never mind that the clothes wouldn't fit in any case). Bizarrely enough Busan has some really nice and interesting areas and I found it more fun to walk around and explore that city than Seoul. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Savant wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| cam83 wrote: |
| Cheers for the intel, just goes to show how big Seoul really is if you include the surrounding areas (Incheon etc). Clearly it's a similar size city (sorry for the lie/exaggeration :p) which for me, makes it even more bizzare as to why they don't have a 24hr central hub. |
The thing that slightly peevs me is why they can't run the national trains all night. Maybe skip an hour say 2-4am (2 hours maintenance). And then run trains once an hour, on the various lines. I'm sure the trains would still be packed. |
The taxi cartels wield a lot of influence it seems. |
You figure a cab would be willing to take a group of people cross country?
How much influence do they really have? Those overnight Seoul city bus service is going well. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
You figure a cab would be willing to take a group of people cross country? |
Yes, at least sometimes. |
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johnny_russian
Joined: 24 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: |
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i like Seoul, but IMO Singapore shits all over it. it's clean, the subway system there is also great, it has some awesome clubs, it also has a river, plus a harbour, and beaches easily accessible from the city.
and the best part is that the way the downtown area lights up at night is absolutely jaw-dropping. the amount of thought and effort that must have been put into designing all the lighting is just staggering. |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| cam83 wrote: |
NYC = Manhattan (Time Sq and Meatpacking district)
London = Piccadilly Circus and Soho
Milan = Navigli district and Girabaldi
Paris = Champs-Élysées
Seoul has Itaewon as the city hub for tourists and the most variety and access. After midnight... want to watch a movie? Trek to Yongsan (might be 2 movies showing - one Korean, one Hollywood). Shopping? Nope. Authentic non Korean food? Ha! Diners/cafés? Nope. Bowling/pool hall? Nope. Are there even any decent Karaoke rooms around? Want to sit outside and chill? Good luck. Casino? Gym? Don't know of any.
All of these thins you can find at late hours in other cities... and the people tend to be in a different state of mind e.g people will actually be out just to chill, watch a movie while others will shop before they head to the airport, others stumble out of clubs. Just being surrounded by a variety of activity. In Itaewon, most ppl aren't out past 2am unless they're partying. |
I'm seriously trying to figure out where you guys are getting the info.
Let's take NYC for movies...
After midnight movies..
Showtimes for the NYC area tomorrow:
http://www.google.com/movies?hl=en&near=New+York,+NY&dq=nyc+movie+times&q=movie+times&sa=X&ei=LJnKU-6-GYb88QXg3ICIDQ&ved=0COkBEMUDKAA
I only see a handful of theatres that are offering movies past midnight. For some reason, many of you think it's a common thing to be offered but it's not. No city is consistently offering movies at 2 and 3 am like you seem to imply.
Second, Itaewon as the central hub for Seoul? lol? I would put Sinchon or Hongdae much higher seeing as one, Hongdae is actually on the Airport Express Line (which connects to Seoul Station and the airport), and two, it's cleaner and has more hotels/hostels to stay at.
Take those areas, there is plenty of shopping going on at night. Lots of places serving non Korean food, plenty of diners and cafes, and are you kidding? Pool halls are known for being open late. There are also some late night bowling alleys in the area as well.
Karaoke? Are you kidding me? Noraebangs are known for being open late night as well. Casinos and gyms, okay I'll give you those.
I've easily spent several nights in Hongdae/ Sinchon not only clubbing, but eating, bowling, watching movies and a variety of other things. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| cam83 wrote: |
I was talking about central hubs, as in what is to be considered the most diverse and accessible/convenient part of the city for the things I highlighted. Most major cities have them... Seoul's is Itaewon - would you like to disagree with my point? Please, I'd be happy to hear your alternative suggestion.
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Itaewon is NOT Seoul's most accessible and most foreigner friendly place. I think Myeongdong is. Let's remember that the VAST majority of foreigners IN and VISITING Korea are from China, Japan, and SE Asia. Itaewon is not on the top of their list of places to go. Myeongdong is, probably followed by Gangnam. Of my friends who have visited Korea from other countries, none of them gave two craps about Itaewon. They cared about Gangnam, Myeongdong, Apgujeong, and Dongdaemun. They didn't come to Korea looking for foreign food or playgrounds at 2AM.
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| I think people are smart enough to know the reasons why non-Korean eateries are not available at 2am, but so what? How does that add or take anything away from my point? |
Not really sure, but I'm not holding out hope for that 24 hour Korean/Japanese/Ethiopian/Brazilian/Thai joint in NYC.
| Quote: |
And even during the daytime, Itaewon has restaurants/cafes and a few sportswear stores... that's about it... so yes, Seoul's central hub is way behind imo. Yeah, sure make the argument that you can 'find' the same things as other cities but not in one place.
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Again, Itaewon is NOT Seoul's central hub. I'd submit that Myeongdong and Gangnam are way more of a hub than Itaewon. Sorry, but most foreigners are not looking at Itaewon.
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| 24hrs eh? Where's the daytime family entertainment? Kids playground/parks? Open green space? Outdoor markets? An outdoor space to sit down? The street buskers/entertainers? Amusement arcades? |
Talking Itaewon or Seoul? If you're talking about Itaewon, fair point. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010
Location: Toilet
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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http://new-york.eat24hours.com/thai
Are people really trying to imply that Seoul has more to offer at night than NYC? Mind-boggling. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| metalhead wrote: |
http://new-york.eat24hours.com/thai
Are people really trying to imply that Seoul has more to offer at night than NYC? Mind-boggling. |
The name of the site is 24 hours. The restaurants are NOT 24 hours.
But your point stands that NYC has more to offer, especially in the daytime and evening, I for one never claimed that Seoul has more to offer, but most of the discussion has been focused on late night- post midnight stuff. |
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