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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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 Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:38 pm Post subject: SMALL hogwans that do NOT pay pension... |
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Hello all,
Is EVERY school required to pay into pension, or must it have a certain amount of employees that remove them from that legal obligation? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:50 am Post subject: Re: SMALL hogwans that do NOT pay pension... |
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| trueblue wrote: |
Hello all,
Is EVERY school required to pay into pension, or must it have a certain amount of employees that remove them from that legal obligation? |
There used to be an exemption for employers with fewer than 5 employees. It was eliminated long ago. Some people may not be aware that this exemption was eliminated. Others may use the old small employer rule as a ruse.
So, yes every school and every employer is required to enroll you in the National Pension and National Health Insurance. The employer is required to pay half of the monthly bill for Pension and Health Insurance, the employee pays the other half.
(However, if you are hired as an Independent Contractor, then you are required to enroll yourself and to pay 100% of the cost. This is legal on an E2 visa, but it's nearly always a very bad deal for the teacher. You should refuse IC contracts.) |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, heard about this. I knew there was some exemption, at one point.
I'm simply trying to help someone out from back home.
Thus, if any school does not pay into the pension scheme, they are choosing NOT to obey the law.... |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:06 am Post subject: Re: SMALL hogwans that do NOT pay pension... |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| trueblue wrote: |
Hello all,
Is EVERY school required to pay into pension, or must it have a certain amount of employees that remove them from that legal obligation? |
There used to be an exemption for employers with fewer than 5 employees. It was eliminated long ago. Some people may not be aware that this exemption was eliminated. Others may use the old small employer rule as a ruse.
So, yes every school and every employer is required to enroll you in the National Pension and National Health Insurance. The employer is required to pay half of the monthly bill for Pension and Health Insurance, the employee pays the other half.
(However, if you are hired as an Independent Contractor, then you are required to enroll yourself and to pay 100% of the cost. This is legal on an E2 visa, but it's nearly always a very bad deal for the teacher. You should refuse IC contracts.) |
If you're an IC, demand 30,000 won an hour minimum (more with experience) and a gauranteed number of hours or pay in lieu of like maybe 22 to 26 minimum. That should be enough for you to pay both you and your employers health care and pension payments along with any tax. DO NOT ACCEPT LESS THAN THESE TWO CONDITIONS EVER FOR AN IC OFFER, EVER!! (Do so only if you're an idiot.) |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| Even if you don't accept an IC contract and your employer signs you up as an independent contractor, it's impossible to get out from under that. The people at the tax office, the pension office, and the national health insurance office are cut out of the same cloth as the people at the offices who were supposed to regulate the Sewol. They won't do their jobs. They'll just tell you to talk with your boss. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Even if you don't accept an IC contract and your employer signs you up as an independent contractor, it's impossible to get out from under that. The people at the tax office, the pension office, and the national health insurance office are cut out of the same cloth as the people at the offices who were supposed to regulate the Sewol. They won't do their jobs. They'll just tell you to talk with your boss. |
Precisely |
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tob55
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Regardless of size, employers are obligated to pay into the National Pension. It also doesn't matter is the workers are full or part-time. The amount to pay is usually insignificant for most people, but employers who side step doing this may be attempting to cheat the government OR they already are cheating the government and do not want to be caught. If an employer is not paying the pension, then the employee should contact the Pension Office and file a complaint or else risk having to pay quite a bit in back-payments once things are discovered. I know this from owning and running an academy, so the comments are not based on my opinion, but on my own experience. |
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CP
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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HERE ARE THE FACTS STRAIGHT FROM THE PENSION OFFICE:
Persons not deemed as Workplace-based insured Persons under the following criteria are NOT required to be under the National Pension Scheme.
1. Single-day workers or workers employed for a period of less than one month.
2. Workers employed in a workplace, the location of which is not fixed.
3. Part-time workers whose contractual working hours are less than 60 hours a month.
** Also foreigners whose home countries' pension scheme exclude Korean nationals from coverage are likewise excluded from coverage under Korea's national pension scheme. **
Everyone else is obviously required to be covered by the National Pension Scheme.
I am a registered foreigner with an E-2 visa who accepted a part time job with a contract of less than 60 hours a month. I am not legally required to pay into the pension plan, nor is my employer so I won't do it. Even if the law required me to pay into the plan I would just do it myself because I am happy with my current work situation and it wouldn't be worth arguing with my boss for a little more money monthly. It's up to you to decide if it's worth fighting over or not.
The National Health Plan is no different, however every foreigner must be registered under the plan no matter what. You will even be charged for all your missed payments up until the day you sign up. Your employer does not have to provide health insurance to you either. The cost is minimal and it's not worth arguing over, if you have an excellent paying job. As I said I have an E-2 sponsor but I don't receive any basic benefits. So, I signed up for the health plan myself, get the bill directly sent to my place and I pay the bill myself. No problems.
Everyone is in a different situation - you just have to decide if it's worth fighting over at the end of the day. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you folks.
If you are are able to receive the pension back (but still have to pay into it anyway) and decide to stay in Korea and venture off to another school, the pension office will take what is theirs, am I right?
So, unless you are here for a "one and done year", I would say it is worth fighting for. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| Even if you don't accept an IC contract and your employer signs you up as an independent contractor, it's impossible to get out from under that. The people at the tax office, the pension office, and the national health insurance office are cut out of the same cloth as the people at the offices who were supposed to regulate the Sewol. They won't do their jobs. They'll just tell you to talk with your boss. |
Read your contract. If it's lists a monthly salary versus an hourly wage, that's how you will know. Don't accept unless the wage is listed what I previously mentioned. If it doesn't mention a wage or hourly work, then the contract should mention pension and health care. If it's not in there, don't take the job. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: |
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In Korea, it has nothing to do with being hourly or on salary, you are an IC simply by declaring to the tax office that you are an "IC." It's that simple and easy, just as it was in the US until the mid 1980s. What we call an Independent Contractor is not the same what we think of as an IC at home.
In Korea you are, as mentioned above, either a Workplace-based insured person (employee) so that your employer has to register you for the National Health Insurance and Pension, or you are Not a Workplace-based insured person (IC) meaning that you are Self responsible and must enroll yourself for the National Health Insurance and Pension. Either you or your boss tells the tax office which one you are; they don't check your contract or decide, they only record the information. |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
In Korea, it has nothing to do with being hourly or on salary, you are an IC simply by declaring to the tax office that you are an "IC." It's that simple and easy, just as it was in the US until the mid 1980s. What we call an Independent Contractor is not the same what we think of as an IC at home.
In Korea you are, as mentioned above, either a Workplace-based insured person (employee) so that your employer has to register you for the National Health Insurance and Pension, or you are Not a Workplace-based insured person (IC) meaning that you are Self responsible and must enroll yourself for the National Health Insurance and Pension. Either you or your boss tells the tax office which one you are; they don't check your contract or decide, they only record the information. |
Abit misleading here......
The pension office definition of IC is posted above. There is NO GREY AREA about working relationship, etc... Less than 60 contractual hours you are an IC, more than 60 you aren't. Doesn't matter what the tax office says, or if you contract says "IC," if you work more than 60 hours pre month, under the law, you need you be supplied pension.
Also, I'm skeptical about whether the "tax office" registration has anything to do with the pension office, as you suggest. For one, whether you are provided pension and health has to mainly do with whether your employer submitted that form or not to the health insurance office. It is a different form than the one submitted to the tax office. One could be registered differently at each place.
In addition, recently, a few of my friends, who are registered as ICs (at tax office only), received letters from the pension office telling them they worked at a pension workplace under the pension act and to demand a pension from their employer as they are entitled to. The pension office didn't just assume they were ICs because they had no record of pension payments, nor did they just assume my friends were ICs because of their tax office registration, or maybe they did..... and they realized there's alot of fraud that happens and want to protect peoples pension rights anyways. |
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FriendlyDaegu
Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| CP wrote: |
| The National Health Plan is no different, however every foreigner must be registered under the plan no matter what. |
Source, please. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| Wildbore wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
In Korea, it has nothing to do with being hourly or on salary, you are an IC simply by declaring to the tax office that you are an "IC." It's that simple and easy, just as it was in the US until the mid 1980s. What we call an Independent Contractor is not the same what we think of as an IC at home.
In Korea you are, as mentioned above, either a Workplace-based insured person (employee) so that your employer has to register you for the National Health Insurance and Pension, or you are Not a Workplace-based insured person (IC) meaning that you are Self responsible and must enroll yourself for the National Health Insurance and Pension. Either you or your boss tells the tax office which one you are; they don't check your contract or decide, they only record the information. |
Abit misleading here......
The pension office definition of IC is posted above. There is NO GREY AREA about working relationship, etc... Less than 60 contractual hours you are an IC, more than 60 you aren't. Doesn't matter what the tax office says, or if you contract says "IC," if you work more than 60 hours pre month, under the law, you need you be supplied pension.
Also, I'm skeptical about whether the "tax office" registration has anything to do with the pension office, as you suggest. For one, whether you are provided pension and health has to mainly do with whether your employer submitted that form or not to the health insurance office. It is a different form than the one submitted to the tax office. One could be registered differently at each place.
In addition, recently, a few of my friends, who are registered as ICs (at tax office only), received letters from the pension office telling them they worked at a pension workplace under the pension act and to demand a pension from their employer as they are entitled to. The pension office didn't just assume they were ICs because they had no record of pension payments, nor did they just assume my friends were ICs because of their tax office registration, or maybe they did..... and they realized there's alot of fraud that happens and want to protect peoples pension rights anyways. |
You apparently didn't understand your own posted information:
| Quote: |
| HERE ARE THE FACTS STRAIGHT FROM THE PENSION OFFICE: |
| Quote: |
| Persons not deemed as Workplace-based insured Persons ... |
You will note that they are talking only about ICs here, that is: people ... who are not ... insured or covered ... by their workplace or through their employer. ... IOW they are self responsible or ICs.
| Quote: |
... under the following criteria ...
are NOT required to be under the National Pension Scheme. |
This means that individuals who are self-responsible or ICs under these listed conditions are exempt from enrolling at all for the National Pension.
| Quote: |
1. Single-day workers or workers employed for a period of less than one month.
2. Workers employed in a workplace, the location of which is not fixed.
3. Part-time workers whose contractual working hours are less than 60 hours a month. |
Your post did not list conditions to be an IC and be self responsible for enrolling in Pension. Your post listed conditions under which those individuals who are already ICs may be exempt completely from enrolling for the National Pension.
These conditions do not exempt these same ICs from enrolling in the National Health Insurance.
This does not change how you become either an employee or an IC.
*****
To summarize:
If you are an employee your employer registers you for National Pension and National Health Ins and you each pay half. (Some employees and ICs are exempt from Pension, but not Health Ins in some cases: South Africans; persons over age 60; persons with other qualified retirement plans; ... )
To be an Independent Contractor, you have to be registered as an IC. That's it.
If you are an IC you enroll yourself for National Pension and National Health Ins. and you pay 100%
But, if you are an IC and you meet the conditions listed above (day worker, transient worker, Part time worker), then you are totally exempt from paying into National Pension. (Health Ins has different rules.)
*****
As to your friends receiving letters from the Pension Office, these letters go out to individuals who were enrolled for National Health Insurance but not National Pension. The Pension office gets the list of those enrolled for National Health Insurance and sends letters to those not enrolled for Pension.
In most cases it would be impossible to get such information from the Tax Office since small businesses only have to report and pay their workers' income withholding taxes once per year. The tax office doesn't even know most E2's exist until this once-a-year tax report is legally due to be filed. |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:04 am Post subject: |
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It does appear I misread that post. However, it doesn't change the fact that an IC status at the pension office isn't determined by the tax office.
| ontheway wrote: |
The pension office
This does not change how you become either an employee or an IC. |
Then why would they bother to define "employee" in their pension act, and have an enforcement decree section for failure to make an accurate report.
| Quote: |
The term "employee" means a person (including directors and officers of a
corporate body) who offers service, regardless of the type of occupation, in a
workplace and whose livelihood depends upon the wages received in return for
the service: Provided, that those who are determined by the Presidential Decree
shall be excluded; |
*****
| ontheway wrote: |
| If you are an employee your employer registers you for National Pension and National Health Ins and you each pay half. (Some employees and ICs are exempt from Pension, but not Health Ins in some cases: South Africans; persons over age 60; persons with other qualified retirement plans; ... ) |
No, you're an "employee" if you fit the definition. You're "registered employee" if your employer decides to submit a report passing that fact along to the NPS.
| ontheway wrote: |
| To be an Independent Contractor, you have to be registered as an IC. That's it. |
Again, there are two forms to fill out, the one where the business sends to remit contractor taxes (3.3%) and the one that goes to the pension office. You are nothing at the pension office if no pension application form is received (from you or your employer if you are an employee). To unregistered people, the NPS usually send an information packet with a form to register yourself, but also with the disclaimer that if you consider yourself an employee, don't fill out that form and request pension from your employer. If the tax office determines status, why don't they tell you to go to the tax office and find out your status (oh yea, because they have their own definition, and probably because of all the fraud that happens with the tax office reports...........)
| ontheway wrote: |
| As to your friends receiving letters from the Pension Office, these letters go out to individuals who were enrolled for National Health Insurance but not National Pension. The Pension office gets the list of those enrolled for National Health Insurance and sends letters to those not enrolled for Pension. |
Wrong again, they also aren't enrolled for health insurance (nor were either of my friends since they've been in Korea). They were sent the letter informing them they are qualified for pension and to demand their pensions (even though they were registered as an IC at the tax office). It seems as though the NPS ignored the indication they were an IC (at the tax office) and sent out the letters anyways. Not surprised, they are actually employees, not ICs (40 hour shifts, fixed location).
| ontheway wrote: |
In most cases it would be impossible to get such information from the Tax Office since small businesses only have to report and pay their workers' income withholding taxes once per year. The tax office doesn't even know most E2's exist until this once-a-year tax report is legally due to be filed. |
I've helped do taxes for 7 people at the tax office, and everyone who was registered as a contractor has had their taxes remitted monthly. If they NHIC and NPS do use that data (I don't think they do often, nor do they assume its reliable), then they should receive it quickly. Employees are usually done on a year-end basis. |
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