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| Total Votes : 25 |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: How many of you have related qualifications? |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
It is just a hunch of mine, but one day in the future, it wouldn't be the biggest surprise in the world if the Koreans adopted Indonesia's stance and kicked out the Poli-Sci graduates (which there are many) and only accept teachers with related qualifications such as English and Linguistics.
So, what are your qualifications and what would you do if this rule came into force? Where would you go? |
Guess Indonesia isn't trying to put a native speaker in every school. I really doubt it's the place everyone is flocking too. If they want to be that picky, they'd better pay really well. There must only be a handful of foreigners there. If Korea did this the number of native speakers would die off. We're not here to teach English as a subject, we're here to let the kids practice English with us freely so they will get better at listening and speaking as they get older.
BTW: what the hell does someone learning about Shakespeare and Dickens have to do with teaching kids ESL? None of the English majors I knew learned grammar and how to teach it as a second language. What about linguistics? It's great to learn theory and all, but if the kids think you're boring as $ hit, none of that matters. It's kind of like the know it all nerd who thinks he's a king in his own mind.
Why not hire business majors who have to study English grammar, write reports, give presentations, and work in teams? It would be more logical than hiring someone who studied Shakespeare, which has nothing to do with ESL. At any rate, they'll do what they'll do. Taiwan take the approach suggested and I seriously doubt every school in the country has a native speaker in the classroom like Korea does.
Having been at this for several years, I can tell you that I've noticed the dramtic improvement in kids English. Middle schoolers several eyars ago who are the young adults today really sucked at English. Nowadays, they are far superior and I can often have conversations with them. IS it because Korean teaching methods have changed radically? No, it's because of kids interacting with so many of us here while their brains are still developing and language pattern isn't set. When I first got here, there weren't many native speakers outside of Seoul and Busan. SO, I"ve literally seen the kids levels raised up over time.
Korea can put up more roadblocks if it wishes, but no ones going to jump through extra hoops and take on more debt for 2.0 million won a month. Salaries would have to have a dramatic spike. The numbers here would dwindle otherwise. As for Indonesia, it wouldn't surprise me if it were deliberate to keep large numbers of foriegners away. A lot of Asian countries do have a xenophobic component to them. They clearly aren't trying to put a native speaker in every school. If they were, their policy is going to make them fail miserably. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Let me further add that ESL isn't rocket science. Just know some teaching basics or fundementals and be good at connecting with kids.
I've had green under the collar English majors and folks with formal TESOL training come up to me and ask me how to teach and for teaching advice because they didn't know what they were doing and were failing miserably. Experience trumps all else. (I have nothing but a business degree.) |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Let me further add that ESL isn't rocket science. Just know some teaching basics or fundementals and be good at connecting with kids.
I've had green under the collar English majors and folks with formal TESOL training come up to me and ask me how to teach and for teaching advice because they didn't know what they were doing and were failing miserably. Experience trumps all else. (I have nothing but a business degree.) |
Like spelling?  |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Let me further add that ESL isn't rocket science. |
Ah the old rocket science phrase again. And the well worn argument about experience trumping qualifications from people who don't have any qualifications.
No it’s not rocket science/brain surgery/very difficult to go into a class room and keep adults or children occupied with some form of language learning for an hour or so if that’s your only aim. However, refining your teaching skills, improving your language knowledge, making your lessons more interesting/effective for the students in a continuous process and takes time, a lot of reflection and a certain degree of intelligence. It’s also something all serious teachers should be interested in.
Obviously the best teachers will have a combination of experience and qualifications (the more practical the better IMO) coupled with a real deisre for professional development. This would manifest itself in observing regularly and being observed by other teachers, attending workshops and being humble enough to accept that they can always learn from others.
Yes there are rubbish teachers with lots of qualifications and yes there are great teachers without any qualifications. That doesn't really prove anything |
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SeoulNate
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
No it’s not rocket science/brain surgery/very difficult to go into a class room and keep adults or children occupied with some form of language learning for an hour or so if that’s your only aim. However, refining your teaching skills, improving your language knowledge, making your lessons more interesting/effective for the students in a continuous process and takes time, a lot of reflection and a certain degree of intelligence. It’s also something all serious teachers should be interested in.
Yes there are rubbish teachers with lots of qualifications and yes there are great teachers without any qualifications. That doesn't really prove anything |
Pretty much this. Also, to add, teaching really is a learned skill that needs to be practiced. Attending classes in uni studying English isnt going to help prepare you in the slightest for teaching a class full of adults/kids. However, a BA in Edu / MAT in edu/ TESOL should if the program is doing a good job. |
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Stu_miller
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I fully agree with the previous two posters.
It's true that qualifications alone do not make a good teacher. However, I believe a good career teacher should strive to improve themselves through study, research and application, leading to improved skills and knowledge. For me, the point of qualifications for a teacher should primarily be to maximise their ability to educate, and not just to gain a piece of paper to get themselves a bit more money/holiday time (although that is a nice bonus reason).
Of course, if you're just in Korea to pay off some debts and then bugger off, then completely disregard all of the above. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone with an MA or PhD in English Lit has probably taught as a TA. Same may go for other majors.
As for English majors not knowing grammar, since they mostly write essays for course work, they should have a good grasp of it. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| misher wrote: |
Having related qualifications in Korea really shouldn't matter.
In most jobs you're teaching English conversation with very very low expectations.
Anyone who can read and write English could do the job. |
All this is quite true however, when you leave planet Korea. Students do expect a bit more, try teaching Russians or Germans without knowing the rules of grammar. Teaching in Korea is still part of a wider scheme of things, it is no good building a fantastic ESL resume (even people who don't see ESL as their future do this because of a lack of direction on their part) when all one has to offer is a poli-sci degree.
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| People saying you need a relevant MA to teach "English communications skills 101" in DongBum University are for the most part saying so because they have to justify the 15,000 GBP spent on a distance MA in TESOL from Sandwich University. |
Not really.
That is happening right now, it isn't projection on my part whatsoever, Korean universities are asking for masters degrees and like anything else of this nature, the effect trickles down. |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
| Teaching in Korea is still part of a wider scheme of things, it is no good building a fantastic ESL resume (even people who don't see ESL as their future do this because of a lack of direction on their part) |
My experience has been different. At my current job (unrelated to ESL), my résumé, when bolstered with solid references related to said EFL/ESL experience, convinced the relevant HR staff to offer me the position with a decent upgrade in starting salary (an additional 9k per year). Not amazing, per se, but hey, 9k is 9k. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
How old are you yam yam? How have you never heard that before? |
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| The logic of the thick. |
This will have to be my last bunch of replies on this thread because our little debate is taking over and b) You are completely boring, And c) your reading comprehension skills are shite. And d) I cannot play if the opposition is not up to it, so for the final time.. let us go through your points.
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Logic of the thick strikes again.
So according to you a squaddie would know more than a trained academic simply because they wore a uniform? |
Shit man, you have just spent the past seven pages telling us how MA holders of TESOL are inferior to PGCE holders because of their lack of practical knowledge. Make your mind up sheesh!
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| Ian Kershaw was never a Nazi and yet he is quite knowledgeable about the Third Reich. |
And is only so because people who actually lived through the reich are becoming less by the year.
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| The fact that you were a squaddie back in the day has absolutley no relevance to the discussion at hand. |
It does when discussing the subject with you because you had patently no idea.
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| We weren't all wasting away our time at school getting expelled like some chav. |
Snob.
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| Weaseling out yet again I see. |
Glad we agree that I never said anything derogatory about London Met. My sister in law got an Msc from there, nothing wrong with the place.
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| Everytime you said I was a London Met grad the implication was that I went to an inferior university and you know it was, so drop the innocent act. |
No I didn't, it is an assumption you have made and now you have been called on it. That is because your reading comprehension skills are weak.
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| I know both De Montfort and Aston Uni very well and so I stand by my comments. |
So that makes you the academic snob and not I.
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| Why should I? This thread is for your ego trip, not mine. |
So less of the labelling of people as 'cowards' when you hiding behind the cloak of anonymity.
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There is no reason. Your chavvy style of commenting just gets on my nerves.
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And your pompous, know it all style of commenting gets on mine though you have been exposed as more spout than substance.
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| I dont have any other qualifications related to TESOL beyond the CELTA. The MA is in another field. |
It is still seen as an upgrade of your skillset. You said in your first post you hadn't upgraded your qualifications when you in face have. Except when the qualification in question is so crap, even the holder themselves doesn't see it as an upgrade.
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Weaseling again.
When you repeatedly say ding dong hagwon 2 mil and later 1.8 mil you are trying to make out that these are the only opportunities in Korea. |
So why would I make this thread if I thought everyone was on 2 million.
I did not say everyone was on 1.8 million - I even put a quantifier (some) in the sentence, as in some people reading this thread are earning 1.8 million.
But because you have poor reading comprehension skills, you read this as all. Somehow.
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| I do not share your worship of money, nor you aversion to hard work. |
Yup, but you have an aversion to intelligence and decent reading comprehension - you will one day sign a contract to work in the UAE thinking that you are going to work in the United States.
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I thought your vile language and chavvy threats were bad enough, but you have surpassed yourself with your new homophobic approach.
Basically you are now reduced to calling me gay and implying that that is some sort of insult. |
No implication of the sort at all. Point out where I have said it is negative being a homosexual?
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Also I went to a failing comp and yet I still turned about better than you it seems.
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Your English teachers should be sacked, seeing as you cannot comprehend simple English.
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Exactly.
Humanities degrees are not that challenging and so I am still amazed at your haughty attitude that makes you think you are better than anybody else because you did an eight month MA. |
Sigh.
Now I know how that fella who tried to teach that chimp how to type up Shakespeare must have felt.
This is how simple it is.
Does anyone here trust the Koreans to keep paying them reasonable money whilst keeping the academic standards to get a visa very low? The country that cares about academic credentials probably more than anywhere else?
It is happening now as it happens, if one does not want to stay here then fine, if one wants to make Korea long term then wouldn't it be more sensible to get the kind of qualifications that appeal to employers?
Nope, Mr 'Mi no comprehende Inglesa'
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| In the last two posts alone you have called Poli-Sci degrees for 'Slackers' and 'Useless'. |
Sigh...
I think Morris Dancing is a waste of time
But would I be against a Morris Dancing club setting up next to me?
No.
If my children wanted to do Morris Dancing, would I stop them?
No.
Because I state a personal preference to the negative does not mean I am against its existence, based on the fact I am not a fascist. Geddit?
[quote]Says the man who won't reveal a thing about himself.
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| Well I do have a healthy respect for the internet and weird randoms, so ill pass. |
Coward!
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| As you are so fearless why don't you give me a run down of your educational background and work history. |
I have told you enough, you gutless wonder!
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You don't give a damn about anybody and this is simply your attempt at trying to show off about having an MA and a 40k job.
You even tried to pass yourself off as being a model of success as if your intermediate qualification and mediocre salary are something to brag about.
Serious point, do you intend to stay in the desert forever? Would you never want to go back to the UK or live somewhere that is not a slave state? |
No- one has to spend the rest of their lives in the desert, at this moment in time, I am taking advantage of the Spanish property market. When I feel that I have invested enough, I can work somewhere else.
I will never go back to the UK. I enjoy working away too much.
None of the above would be possible long term unless it was for my MA in TESOL.
Now, the next time you take me on. Brush up on your reading comprehension skills and you won't look a pratt whilst getting embroiled in the ensuing carnage.
It has been fun akunywus but I have things to do. Toodle pip!  |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Robbie Davis' response is one of the most immature I have seen on the internet for a while. I think he is super cool teacherer with mega BA in English  |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| pugwall wrote: |
| Robbie Davis' response is one of the most immature I have seen on the internet for a while. I think he is super cool teacherer with mega BA in English |
You forgot about the MA in TESOL I have as well, Mugwall. Be more careful next time!  |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| This will have to be my last bunch of replies on this thread because our little debate is taking over and b) You are completely boring, And c) your reading comprehension skills are shite. And d) I cannot play if the opposition is not up to it, so for the final time.. let us go through your points. |
No it wont. Your ego will not allow you to walk away without having the last word.
Frankly I wasn't going to respond to your last load of waffle, but then you started being homophobic and it riled me again.
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| Shit man, you have just spent the past seven pages telling us how MA holders of TESOL are inferior to PGCE holders because of their lack of practical knowledge. Make your mind up sheesh! |
No I said that the PGCE + QTS is the professional qualification for a teacher.
In anycase we were discussing your claim that having worn a uniform meant that you had superior knowledge of the causes of the American defeat during the Vietnam War.
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| And is only so because people who actually lived through the reich are becoming less by the year. |
Are you serious???
You think the only reason that Ian Kershaw is a well respected academic of the Third Reich is because the number of WWII veterans has reduced year on year?????????
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| It does when discussing the subject with you because you had patently no idea. |
The subject is the Vietnam War and the reasons for the American defeat. What does your experience have to do with any of that????
You got expelled from a school in the UK. That is no mean feat considering that kids who brough knives to school were only given suspensions.
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| Glad we agree that I never said anything derogatory about London Met. My sister in law got an Msc from there, nothing wrong with the place. |
You kept on bringing up London Met again and again even when I said Russell Group because you were implying that is was an inferior uni. Which is contemptible considering that your sister went there for her Msc.
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| No I didn't, it is an assumption you have made and now you have been called on it. That is because your reading comprehension skills are weak. |
Even when I said that I didn't go there you kept bringing it up which shows that you meant it as an insult.
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| So that makes you the academic snob and not I. |
No, I know the universities and I know that the standard of education there is very low.
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| So less of the labelling of people as 'cowards' when you hiding behind the cloak of anonymity. |
You are a coward because you make an insult and then when you are called out on it you back track and make out that you were misunderstood.
Being afraid of giving too much personal info on the web is a very prudent course of action. You fail to heed that advice because you are an ego maniac.
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| And your pompous, know it all style of commenting gets on mine though you have been exposed as more spout than substance. |
Vile language, chavvy threats and homophobia doesn't exactly make you seem like a poster of substance.
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It is still seen as an upgrade of your skillset. You said in your first post you hadn't upgraded your qualifications when you in face have. Except when the qualification in question is so crap, even the holder themselves doesn't see it as an upgrade.
Reading comprehension is obviously not your strong point. |
I have an MA, but not in the field of TESOL, therefore I haven't upgraded my TESOL qualifications.
Why are you still not getting this very simple point?
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I did not say everyone was on 1.8 million - I even put a quantifier (some) in the sentence, as in some people reading this thread are earning 1.8 million.
But because you have poor reading comprehension skills, you read this as all. Somehow. |
Because you repeatedly characterise teaching in Korea as consisting of nothing but low paying hagwon jobs and you are now trying to back track yet again.
You can either apologise for your mistake or be a coward.
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| Yup, but you have an aversion to intelligence and decent reading comprehension - you will one day sign a contract to work in the UAE thinking that you are going to work in the United States. |
Again with the feeble comedy.
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| No implication of the sort at all. Point out where I have said it is negative being a homosexual? |
Here
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| I was working there when the sixth form prefect was bumming you in your London prep school |
I would like to see you worm yourself out of this one.
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Sigh.
Now I know how that fella who tried to teach that chimp how to type up Shakespeare must have felt.
This is how simple it is.
Does anyone here trust the Koreans to keep paying them reasonable money whilst keeping the academic standards to get a visa very low? The country that cares about academic credentials probably more than anywhere else?
It is happening now as it happens, if one does not want to stay here then fine, if one wants to make Korea long term then wouldn't it be more sensible to get the kind of qualifications that appeal to employers? |
Sigh.
As I have said countless times, upgrading qualifications isn't a bad thing and maybe one day I will become a professionally qualified teacher.
My problem was that there is zero evidence that they will up the requirements and you have admitted this by saying it was only a 'hunch'.
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Sigh...
I think Morris Dancing is a waste of time
But would I be against a Morris Dancing club setting up next to me?
No.
If my children wanted to do Morris Dancing, would I stop them?
No.
Because I state a personal preference to the negative does not mean I am against its existence, based on the fact I am not a fascist. Geddit? |
Yes, I understand that you don't want to ban the existence of Poli-Sci degrees.
It is pretty obvious, however, that you have a major problem with people who have done Poil-Sci degrees.
I called you a coward for using insults and then trying to back track without apologising.
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| I have told you enough, you gutless wonder! |
You have not made it clear if Brum was where you did both your BA and MA.
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| No- one has to spend the rest of their lives in the desert, at this moment in time, I am taking advantage of the Spanish property market. When I feel that I have invested enough, I can work somewhere else. |
I am sure nothing could go wrong with that little venture.
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I will never go back to the UK. I enjoy working away too much.
None of the above would be possible long term unless it was for my MA in TESOL. |
Or a host of other qualifications.
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| Now, the next time you take me on. Brush up on your reading comprehension skills and you won't look a pratt whilst getting embroiled in the ensuing carnage. |
LOL! Carnage?????
You are not exactly Peter Ustinov. I mean have you even made a single point that didn't in some way involve logic fails, snobbery, homophobia or vile language?
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| It has been fun akunywus but I have things to do. Toodle pip! |
You live in the desert, you have absolutely nothing to do. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Let me further add that ESL isn't rocket science. |
Ah the old rocket science phrase again. And the well worn argument about experience trumping qualifications from people who don't have any qualifications.
No it’s not rocket science/brain surgery/very difficult to go into a class room and keep adults or children occupied with some form of language learning for an hour or so if that’s your only aim. However, refining your teaching skills, improving your language knowledge, making your lessons more interesting/effective for the students in a continuous process and takes time, a lot of reflection and a certain degree of intelligence. It’s also something all serious teachers should be interested in.
Obviously the best teachers will have a combination of experience and qualifications (the more practical the better IMO) coupled with a real deisre for professional development. This would manifest itself in observing regularly and being observed by other teachers, attending workshops and being humble enough to accept that they can always learn from others.
Yes there are rubbish teachers with lots of qualifications and yes there are great teachers without any qualifications. That doesn't really prove anything |
...and certified teachers and TESOL trained folks who complain to me about teaching here and kids who chew them up and spit them alive. If some of these obnoxious idiots aren't well liked by their fellow ESL community, chances are the kids won't like them either.
Fact is, so called higher qualified folk have approached me for advice repeatedly. Fact is whenever I've gone to a new school, I have blown my Korean co teachers away with my preparation and teaching materials. It's not because I'm some fat geeky paper qualified arrogant know it all, but because I have the experience of trial and error and self evaluation. It's called continual improvement and not resting on my laurels. I've repeatedly been told I'm one of the top teachers in my town. But, low is me and my scumbag BBA.
Really, some of you kids need to get over yourselves. The qualification to teach here is a 4 year degree and a TESOL or experience in lieu of a TESOL. You want to go somewhere where you can be a stuck up snob and think you're better than everyone else? Move onto another country. No ones, keeping you here.... |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Let me further add that ESL isn't rocket science. |
Ah the old rocket science phrase again. And the well worn argument about experience trumping qualifications from people who don't have any qualifications.
No it’s not rocket science/brain surgery/very difficult to go into a class room and keep adults or children occupied with some form of language learning for an hour or so if that’s your only aim. However, refining your teaching skills, improving your language knowledge, making your lessons more interesting/effective for the students in a continuous process and takes time, a lot of reflection and a certain degree of intelligence. It’s also something all serious teachers should be interested in.
Obviously the best teachers will have a combination of experience and qualifications (the more practical the better IMO) coupled with a real deisre for professional development. This would manifest itself in observing regularly and being observed by other teachers, attending workshops and being humble enough to accept that they can always learn from others.
Yes there are rubbish teachers with lots of qualifications and yes there are great teachers without any qualifications. That doesn't really prove anything |
...and certified teachers and TESOL trained folks who complain to me about teaching here and kids who chew them up and spit them alive. If some of these obnoxious idiots aren't well liked by their fellow ESL community, chances are the kids won't like them either.
Fact is, so called higher qualified folk have approached me for advice repeatedly. Fact is whenever I've gone to a new school, I have blown my Korean co teachers away with my preparation and teaching materials. It's not because I'm some fat geeky paper qualified arrogant know it all, but because I have the experience of trial and error and self evaluation. It's called continual improvement and not resting on my laurels. I've repeatedly been told I'm one of the top teachers in my town. But, low is me and my scumbag BBA.
Really, some of you kids need to get over yourselves. The qualification to teach here is a 4 year degree and a TESOL or experience in lieu of a TESOL. You want to go somewhere where you can be a stuck up snob and think you're better than everyone else? Move onto another country. No ones, keeping you here.... |
No-one has said that unqualified teachers aren't good teachers. Another comprehension fail.
What I have said is that if the Korean government decide to change the rules regarding a minimum criteria of academic qualifications, then a lot of you are in the shit.
Your other point you made is that there are some qualified teachers who are crap at teaching, and though I agree, there are a lot of excellent teachers that are also qualified - qualifications have nothing to do with actual ability.
You have been there a long time I take it Weigookin74, it is obvious you like it there, but in all that time, have you never thought of upgrading your qualifications from a BBA? (whatever that is) do you have a plan B just in case the Koreans decide you are persona non grata and kick your arse out of there?
If your idea of a plan is to bumble along with the minimum of qualifications, blinded by the notion that this Korean bun fest will last forever, well, fair play my man, but it is not the most sensible plan is it?
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