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| Total Votes : 25 |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| I've repeatedly been told I'm one of the top teachers in my town. |
| Quote: |
| Really, some of you kids need to get over yourselves |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Let me further add that ESL isn't rocket science. |
Ah the old rocket science phrase again. And the well worn argument about experience trumping qualifications from people who don't have any qualifications.
No it’s not rocket science/brain surgery/very difficult to go into a class room and keep adults or children occupied with some form of language learning for an hour or so if that’s your only aim. However, refining your teaching skills, improving your language knowledge, making your lessons more interesting/effective for the students in a continuous process and takes time, a lot of reflection and a certain degree of intelligence. It’s also something all serious teachers should be interested in.
Obviously the best teachers will have a combination of experience and qualifications (the more practical the better IMO) coupled with a real deisre for professional development. This would manifest itself in observing regularly and being observed by other teachers, attending workshops and being humble enough to accept that they can always learn from others.
Yes there are rubbish teachers with lots of qualifications and yes there are great teachers without any qualifications. That doesn't really prove anything |
...and certified teachers and TESOL trained folks who complain to me about teaching here and kids who chew them up and spit them alive. If some of these obnoxious idiots aren't well liked by their fellow ESL community, chances are the kids won't like them either.
Fact is, so called higher qualified folk have approached me for advice repeatedly. Fact is whenever I've gone to a new school, I have blown my Korean co teachers away with my preparation and teaching materials. It's not because I'm some fat geeky paper qualified arrogant know it all, but because I have the experience of trial and error and self evaluation. It's called continual improvement and not resting on my laurels. I've repeatedly been told I'm one of the top teachers in my town. But, low is me and my scumbag BBA.
Really, some of you kids need to get over yourselves. The qualification to teach here is a 4 year degree and a TESOL or experience in lieu of a TESOL. You want to go somewhere where you can be a stuck up snob and think you're better than everyone else? Move onto another country. No ones, keeping you here.... |
No-one has said that unqualified teachers aren't good teachers. Another comprehension fail.
What I have said is that if the Korean government decide to change the rules regarding a minimum criteria of academic qualifications, then a lot of you are in the shit.
Your other point you made is that there are some qualified teachers who are crap at teaching, and though I agree, there are a lot of excellent teachers that are also qualified - qualifications have nothing to do with actual ability.
You have been there a long time I take it Weigookin74, it is obvious you like it there, but in all that time, have you never thought of upgrading your qualifications from a BBA? (whatever that is) do you have a plan B just in case the Koreans decide you are persona non grata and kick your arse out of there?
If your idea of a plan is to bumble along with the minimum of qualifications, blinded by the notion that this Korean bun fest will last forever, well, fair play my man, but it is not the most sensible plan is it?
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We weren't all born with a silver spoon in our mouth. Some of us have real debts (student loans, credit cards) and real monthly repayments to make. Creditors don't care if the won exchange rate fell. You still have to scrape by the payment. But, when less dollars end up in your bank account than before, the principal only gets tackled incrementally. I admit I'm a bit jealous of all those folks who got here two to three years before me and got things paid off just because of a good exchange rate and a cheaper living cost. As we all know, wages stagnated for a long time and are only recently starting to rise along with the exchange rate.
Long story short, that leaves no money for taking MA's or anything else. BBA is a Bachelor of Business Administration. But when you come from the economic armpit of North America, even a degree won't get you a job or at least a good one. So, here I came. (Though the kicker is some friends who do rig work in Alberta making 8 grand a month. They tell me to go. Don't tempt me. Ha ha.)
Long story short, unless you are lucky enough to live in a big city where you can stay at home with the folks and there are lots of head offices of companies to go work for, it's kind of hard to do anything or move if the living costs in these cities are out of control. (You definately need a nest egg saved up to subsidize the living costs until you get raises and promotions.) |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| robbie_davies wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Let me further add that ESL isn't rocket science. |
Ah the old rocket science phrase again. And the well worn argument about experience trumping qualifications from people who don't have any qualifications.
No it’s not rocket science/brain surgery/very difficult to go into a class room and keep adults or children occupied with some form of language learning for an hour or so if that’s your only aim. However, refining your teaching skills, improving your language knowledge, making your lessons more interesting/effective for the students in a continuous process and takes time, a lot of reflection and a certain degree of intelligence. It’s also something all serious teachers should be interested in.
Obviously the best teachers will have a combination of experience and qualifications (the more practical the better IMO) coupled with a real deisre for professional development. This would manifest itself in observing regularly and being observed by other teachers, attending workshops and being humble enough to accept that they can always learn from others.
Yes there are rubbish teachers with lots of qualifications and yes there are great teachers without any qualifications. That doesn't really prove anything |
...and certified teachers and TESOL trained folks who complain to me about teaching here and kids who chew them up and spit them alive. If some of these obnoxious idiots aren't well liked by their fellow ESL community, chances are the kids won't like them either.
Fact is, so called higher qualified folk have approached me for advice repeatedly. Fact is whenever I've gone to a new school, I have blown my Korean co teachers away with my preparation and teaching materials. It's not because I'm some fat geeky paper qualified arrogant know it all, but because I have the experience of trial and error and self evaluation. It's called continual improvement and not resting on my laurels. I've repeatedly been told I'm one of the top teachers in my town. But, low is me and my scumbag BBA.
Really, some of you kids need to get over yourselves. The qualification to teach here is a 4 year degree and a TESOL or experience in lieu of a TESOL. You want to go somewhere where you can be a stuck up snob and think you're better than everyone else? Move onto another country. No ones, keeping you here.... |
No-one has said that unqualified teachers aren't good teachers. Another comprehension fail.
What I have said is that if the Korean government decide to change the rules regarding a minimum criteria of academic qualifications, then a lot of you are in the shit.
Your other point you made is that there are some qualified teachers who are crap at teaching, and though I agree, there are a lot of excellent teachers that are also qualified - qualifications have nothing to do with actual ability.
You have been there a long time I take it Weigookin74, it is obvious you like it there, but in all that time, have you never thought of upgrading your qualifications from a BBA? (whatever that is) do you have a plan B just in case the Koreans decide you are persona non grata and kick your arse out of there?
If your idea of a plan is to bumble along with the minimum of qualifications, blinded by the notion that this Korean bun fest will last forever, well, fair play my man, but it is not the most sensible plan is it?
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We weren't all born with a silver spoon in our mouth. Some of us have real debts (student loans, credit cards) and real monthly repayments to make. Creditors don't care if the won exchange rate fell. You still have to scrape by the payment. But, when less dollars end up in your bank account than before, the principal only gets tackled incrementally. I admit I'm a bit jealous of all those folks who got here two to three years before me and got things paid off just because of a good exchange rate and a cheaper living cost. As we all know, wages stagnated for a long time and are only recently starting to rise along with the exchange rate.
Long story short, that leaves no money for taking MA's or anything else. BBA is a Bachelor of Business Administration. But when you come from the economic armpit of North America, even a degree won't get you a job or at least a good one. So, here I came. (Though the kicker is some friends who do rig work in Alberta making 8 grand a month. They tell me to go. Don't tempt me. Ha ha.)
Long story short, unless you are lucky enough to live in a big city where you can stay at home with the folks and there are lots of head offices of companies to go work for, it's kind of hard to do anything or move if the living costs in these cities are out of control. (You definately need a nest egg saved up to subsidize the living costs until you get raises and promotions.) |
I was born on a council estate in the West Midlands, silver cutlery was as absent in my house as in yours growing up.
It seems you are good at teaching, like your life in Korea and want it to continue, so why not safeguard it by getting some more qualifications and keep this party going.
I know loads of ESL teachers are as tight as a cemeneted brick but you have to spend your savings on something, and that something might as well be you - you will reap the rewards in the long run as the MA/PGCE or whatever pays for itself. Makes sense!  |
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chickenpie
Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have CELTA, DELTA and an MA.
Over qualified for Korea. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:30 am Post subject: |
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I have an MA in TESOL. Sadly it is not recognized by the education authorities in the UK because it is distance learning. I think as time goes by uni jobs will be exclusively given to people with master's, then the online master's will be less desirable, and eventually a Phd will become the prerequisite.
Not to worry though, I'll just pack up and return to the UK with my wife. Oh wait a fucking second......I need to be earning over £18,500 for 6 months before my wife can officially join me. In fact the specifics are far more galling than what I just wrote.
So it looks like I'm fucked. Stuck here in a job with diminishing financial rewards, yet unable to return with my wife to my place of birth. It's depressing to think about. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
I have an MA in TESOL. Sadly it is not recognized by the education authorities in the UK because it is distance learning. I think as time goes by uni jobs will be exclusively given to people with master's, then the online master's will be less desirable, and eventually a Phd will become the prerequisite.
Not to worry though, I'll just pack up and return to the UK with my wife. Oh wait a fucking second......I need to be earning over £18,500 for 6 months before my wife can officially join me. In fact the specifics are far more galling than what I just wrote.
So it looks like I'm fucked. Stuck here in a job with diminishing financial rewards, yet unable to return with my wife to my place of birth. It's depressing to think about. |
A way around that worked for me was taking your wife to another EU country, I took mine to Spain and she applied for permanent residence as my wife is a Chinese national married to an EU citizen, once she got her residence permit, she was allowed into the UK whenever she pleased. Best thing about this, is all you need to do is to enforce an EU treaty right (looking for work or working) and it is free.
Look up the Surinder Singh rule. Good luck! |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
I have an MA in TESOL. Sadly it is not recognized by the education authorities in the UK because it is distance learning. I think as time goes by uni jobs will be exclusively given to people with master's, then the online master's will be less desirable, and eventually a Phd will become the prerequisite.
Not to worry though, I'll just pack up and return to the UK with my wife. Oh wait a fucking second......I need to be earning over £18,500 for 6 months before my wife can officially join me. In fact the specifics are far more galling than what I just wrote.
So it looks like I'm fucked. Stuck here in a job with diminishing financial rewards, yet unable to return with my wife to my place of birth. It's depressing to think about. |
A way around that worked for me was taking your wife to another EU country, I took mine to Spain and she applied for permanent residence as my wife is a Chinese national married to an EU citizen, once she got her residence permit, she was allowed into the UK whenever she pleased. Best thing about this, is all you need to do is to enforce an EU treaty right (looking for work or working) and it is free.
Look up the Surinder Singh rule. Good luck! |
They have tightened up the visa rules lately which means you have to do a little bit more to prove that your 'centre of life' has moved to that EU country.
It is not too onerous though, I have read that things like gym memberships, a degree of language study and joint bank accounts can all be used to prove the new requirement.
They have also started looking at the duration couples are staying in the EU country before going to the UK. Three months is still the minimum, but the training guidelines for officers are now saying up to 9 months |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
I have an MA in TESOL. Sadly it is not recognized by the education authorities in the UK because it is distance learning. I think as time goes by uni jobs will be exclusively given to people with master's, then the online master's will be less desirable, and eventually a Phd will become the prerequisite.
Not to worry though, I'll just pack up and return to the UK with my wife. Oh wait a fucking second......I need to be earning over £18,500 for 6 months before my wife can officially join me. In fact the specifics are far more galling than what I just wrote.
So it looks like I'm fucked. Stuck here in a job with diminishing financial rewards, yet unable to return with my wife to my place of birth. It's depressing to think about. |
Another point would be that if you have worked abroad outside of the EU within the last three years then you will have to pay overseas fees.
Although I don't know if that applies to people who have studied outside of the EU. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
I have an MA in TESOL. Sadly it is not recognized by the education authorities in the UK because it is distance learning. I think as time goes by uni jobs will be exclusively given to people with master's, then the online master's will be less desirable, and eventually a Phd will become the prerequisite.
Not to worry though, I'll just pack up and return to the UK with my wife. Oh wait a fucking second......I need to be earning over £18,500 for 6 months before my wife can officially join me. In fact the specifics are far more galling than what I just wrote.
So it looks like I'm fucked. Stuck here in a job with diminishing financial rewards, yet unable to return with my wife to my place of birth. It's depressing to think about. |
How about retiring in Thailand? Some people do it. What good is returning to the place of your birth if you can't afford to live there? Plus, if you go to the place of your birth, you take your wife away from the place of her birth. Anyway...just an idea. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
| robbie_davies wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
I have an MA in TESOL. Sadly it is not recognized by the education authorities in the UK because it is distance learning. I think as time goes by uni jobs will be exclusively given to people with master's, then the online master's will be less desirable, and eventually a Phd will become the prerequisite.
Not to worry though, I'll just pack up and return to the UK with my wife. Oh wait a fucking second......I need to be earning over £18,500 for 6 months before my wife can officially join me. In fact the specifics are far more galling than what I just wrote.
So it looks like I'm fucked. Stuck here in a job with diminishing financial rewards, yet unable to return with my wife to my place of birth. It's depressing to think about. |
A way around that worked for me was taking your wife to another EU country, I took mine to Spain and she applied for permanent residence as my wife is a Chinese national married to an EU citizen, once she got her residence permit, she was allowed into the UK whenever she pleased. Best thing about this, is all you need to do is to enforce an EU treaty right (looking for work or working) and it is free.
Look up the Surinder Singh rule. Good luck! |
They have tightened up the visa rules lately which means you have to do a little bit more to prove that your 'centre of life' has moved to that EU country.
It is not too onerous though, I have read that things like gym memberships, a degree of language study and joint bank accounts can all be used to prove the new requirement.
They have also started looking at the duration couples are staying in the EU country before going to the UK. Three months is still the minimum, but the training guidelines for officers are now saying up to 9 months |
Well, if you could be so kind as to prove Jazzmaster some links because I did this last year with my wife and it was pretty straightforward. It might have changed though and I am ready to corrected.
And even if it is has changed (slightly) it is still better than the alternative that has been put in place by our fuckwit government.
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| robbie_davies wrote: |
| aq8knyus wrote: |
| robbie_davies wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
I have an MA in TESOL. Sadly it is not recognized by the education authorities in the UK because it is distance learning. I think as time goes by uni jobs will be exclusively given to people with master's, then the online master's will be less desirable, and eventually a Phd will become the prerequisite.
Not to worry though, I'll just pack up and return to the UK with my wife. Oh wait a fucking second......I need to be earning over £18,500 for 6 months before my wife can officially join me. In fact the specifics are far more galling than what I just wrote.
So it looks like I'm fucked. Stuck here in a job with diminishing financial rewards, yet unable to return with my wife to my place of birth. It's depressing to think about. |
A way around that worked for me was taking your wife to another EU country, I took mine to Spain and she applied for permanent residence as my wife is a Chinese national married to an EU citizen, once she got her residence permit, she was allowed into the UK whenever she pleased. Best thing about this, is all you need to do is to enforce an EU treaty right (looking for work or working) and it is free.
Look up the Surinder Singh rule. Good luck! |
They have tightened up the visa rules lately which means you have to do a little bit more to prove that your 'centre of life' has moved to that EU country.
It is not too onerous though, I have read that things like gym memberships, a degree of language study and joint bank accounts can all be used to prove the new requirement.
They have also started looking at the duration couples are staying in the EU country before going to the UK. Three months is still the minimum, but the training guidelines for officers are now saying up to 9 months |
Well, if you could be so kind as to prove Jazzmaster some links because I did this last year with my wife and it was pretty straightforward. It might have changed though and I am ready to corrected.
And even if it is has changed (slightly) it is still better than the alternative that has been put in place by our fuckwit government.
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This was the best link I could find that explained the changes.
http://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clinic/2013/12/08/uk-changes-rules-on-surinder-singh-route/
I don't see how they can justify the changes, but until they are forced to back down they will remain in place for now.
As I understand it though it is still straightforward getting the residency card in Spain for your spouse.
You are right about it being better than the alternative which would mean that even with a job paying 18,600 you would have to be getting paid that for the last 12 months. So best case scenario you would have to leave your non-EU spouse and live in the UK earning that wage for a year.
I voted conservative...never again. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
This was the best link I could find that explained the changes.
http://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clinic/2013/12/08/uk-changes-rules-on-surinder-singh-route/
I don't see how they can justify the changes, but until they are forced to back down they will remain in place for now.
As I understand it though it is still straightforward getting the residency card in Spain for your spouse.
You are right about it being better than the alternative which would mean that even with a job paying 18,600 you would have to be getting paid that for the last 12 months. So best case scenario you would have to leave your non-EU spouse and live in the UK earning that wage for a year.
I voted conservative...never again. |
You voted Tories? Boo!
This policy is one of the reasons I'm keen for Scotland to get independence. I still have a couple of years left in me before I consider going back to the UK but I appreciate the link.
isitts - it's a good idea to consider living somewhere else, but it's heartbreaking to think I might not be able to retire to my place of birth with the woman I love. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| You only need savings of 62 grand don't you? I'm sure Robbie can save that In a couple of years in Saudi. I managed it in around 5 in Korea. |
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robbie_davies
Joined: 16 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| You only need savings of 62 grand don't you? I'm sure Robbie can save that In a couple of years in Saudi. I managed it in around 5 in Korea. |
My missus has EU permanent residence, didn't cost that much thank God! |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| aq8knyus wrote: |
This was the best link I could find that explained the changes.
http://blogs.kent.ac.uk/eu-rights-clinic/2013/12/08/uk-changes-rules-on-surinder-singh-route/
I don't see how they can justify the changes, but until they are forced to back down they will remain in place for now.
As I understand it though it is still straightforward getting the residency card in Spain for your spouse.
You are right about it being better than the alternative which would mean that even with a job paying 18,600 you would have to be getting paid that for the last 12 months. So best case scenario you would have to leave your non-EU spouse and live in the UK earning that wage for a year.
I voted conservative...never again. |
You voted Tories? Boo!
This policy is one of the reasons I'm keen for Scotland to get independence. I still have a couple of years left in me before I consider going back to the UK but I appreciate the link.
isitts - it's a good idea to consider living somewhere else, but it's heartbreaking to think I might not be able to retire to my place of birth with the woman I love. |
It was my first general election where I could vote, so I am going to claim the ignorance of youth.
I would be interested in seeing if an independent Scotland would have the same rules for citizenship as the Irish. If they did I would jump at it and bypass the whole financial requirement. |
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