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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Zyzyfer"]However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself.[/quote]
Yeah, you'd think he'd wait until he actually got here before offering his two cents. It's as ridiculous as me going over to the Paraquay or Albania forums and spouting, off despite the fact that I've never been there. But I've worked in Holland so I'm an expert. The thing is Stu isn't even "Newbie Stu" yet. We all know how annoying it is talking to newbs. Stewey baby isn't even that yet. His knowledge of Korea, and what we encounter and deal with here, is zero. As I told him before. Get the experience then form an opinion. Only a clown does it the other way round.
Can't wait till he's been here a full week. Then he'll be able to give us even more profound insights.  |
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Stu_miller
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself. |
I completely agree. I would never claim to have any insight on Korea at this point, but I can absolutely provide insight on being a western expat in Asia. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Stu_miller wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself. |
I completely agree. I would never claim to have any insight on Korea at this point, but I can absolutely provide insight on being a western expat in Asia. |
Yeah, because Asia is just one big homogeneous mass, isn't it? Thailand and Korea, same same.
Would a European have insight into life in "as an expat in North America" if he lived in Mexico for a few years but never set foot in Canada and the US. Would his experienbce in the south of Mexico give him insight into life in Quebec, Nunavit, or North Dakota? What about someone who worked in Ireland. Would that give him insight into life in Latvia? After all, he has experience living "as an expat in Europe"? By your logic, he would.
And that, unfortunately, is classified as a logic "fail". |
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Stu_miller
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| Stu_miller wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself. |
I completely agree. I would never claim to have any insight on Korea at this point, but I can absolutely provide insight on being a western expat in Asia. |
Yeah, because Asia is just one big homogeneous mass, isn't it? Thailand and Korea, same same.
Would a European have insight into life in "as an expat in North America" if he lived in Mexico for a few years but never set foot in Canada and the US. Would his experienbce in the south of Mexico give him insight into life in Quebec, Nunavit, or North Dakota? What about someone who worked in Ireland. Would that give him insight into life in Latvia? After all, he has experience living "as an expat in Europe"? By your logic, he would.
And that, unfortunately, is classified as a logic "fail". |
You're still struggling, sorry about that. Firstly, I specifically said that I wasn't talking only about Korea but about being an expat in general, which does retain some common features, regardless of where you are.
Secondly, I would absolutely argue that certain East and South-East Asian countries share far more in common with each other culturally and socially than the western comparisons that you make, in which you are being deliberately obtuse and/or ignorant.
Is there no end to the extent to which you will continue to ignore what I'm actually saying, instead of what you would prefer I am saying to fit your argument?
Fail, indeed.
Last edited by Stu_miller on Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Stu_miller wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself. |
I completely agree. I would never claim to have any insight on Korea at this point, but I can absolutely provide insight on being a western expat in Asia. |
A lot of the complainers here cant stand me and I get where u are coming from on their world view, but listen to what they have to say. Korea aint the easiest place to live in.
It may not be at the level of doom and gloom people make it out to be, but you cant just frolick in here neither. |
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Stu_miller
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Stu_miller wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself. |
I completely agree. I would never claim to have any insight on Korea at this point, but I can absolutely provide insight on being a western expat in Asia. |
A lot of the complainers here cant stand me and I get where u are coming from on their world view, but listen to what they have to say. Korea aint the easiest place to live in.
It may not be at the level of doom and gloom people make it out to be, but you cant just frolick in here neither. |
I appreciate what you are saying but I'm not coming to "frolick". One of my reasons for coming to Korea is that I will be starting an extremely good teaching job, far more professional than those I have found to be on offer in Thailand, and with much better opportunities for professional development and for saving money for an MA, which is a nice extra incentive. I'm also always interested in living in and discover a new country, for all its good and bad points, and I love to learn a new language. So I'm excited for new experiences too. I don't expect any kind of cakewalk and I'm extremely realistic in terms of the requirements for living in a different country, given that this isn't my first time at the rodeo (although Smithy will have you believe I will be some 19 year-old off the boat with zero life experience; I'm still not exactly sure why). |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Stu_miller wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Stu_miller wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself. |
I completely agree. I would never claim to have any insight on Korea at this point, but I can absolutely provide insight on being a western expat in Asia. |
A lot of the complainers here cant stand me and I get where u are coming from on their world view, but listen to what they have to say. Korea aint the easiest place to live in.
It may not be at the level of doom and gloom people make it out to be, but you cant just frolick in here neither. |
I appreciate what you are saying but I'm not coming to "frolick". One of my reasons for coming to Korea is that I will be starting an extremely good teaching job, far more professional than those I have found to be on offer in Thailand, and with much better opportunities for professional development and for saving money for an MA, which is a nice extra incentive. I'm also always interested in living in and discover a new country, for all its good and bad points, and I love to learn a new language. So I'm excited for new experiences too. I don't expect any kind of cakewalk and I'm extremely realistic in terms of the requirements for living in a different country, given that this isn't my first time at the rodeo (although Smithy will have you believe I will be some 19 year-old off the boat with zero life experience; I'm still not exactly sure why). |
For someone so interested in new this and new that, you sure do pound the cliches. |
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Stu_miller
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
For someone so interested in new this and new that, you sure do pound the cliches. |
Yep, I love a good cliche
It's a game of two halves, 3 points on the board, just taking one game at a time, but the lads are putting in 110% |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| Say what, now? Stu hasn't even been to Korea? He doesn't live here? Yet he's telling us how we should feel about the place? What a complete idiot. He's not even a green newbie yet and he's lecturing us veterans about adjusting to Korean society. Ignore this fool. |
Who invited you to the vets' table noob?
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I have zero interest in participating in the thread topic, but when I see comments like this from you, it makes me curious if folks like bluelake who have been here for quite an extraordinary amount of time view people like you who have been here appreciably long, but not quite as long as they have, with similar - faux or legitimate, you could be cleverly trolling posters who write off people with very little time in country like Smithington did - "noobish" contempt?
I'm not really trying to be caustic, really I'm not. It just seems like 15 years is equally as arbitrary as 10 years, or 5 years, or 2 years or 1 year. I know people who have been here less time than me who have far more ingrained ties to society here than myself, and I also know people who have been here longer, who haven't made significant strides in that regard.
However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself. |
I was rushed what I should have said was, Who invited you to the vets' table noob? Bluelake hasn't even asked me to the table yet.
After 23 years and having forgotten more than some will ever learn the thing that I still enjoy is that I'm still learning. Anybody that says they understand Korea or have it figured out are full of it.
To the point of 'Leave if you don't like it', I've never been keen on the sentiment. Everyone has good days and bad. Everyone has a day they ask themselves "what the hell am I doing here?" Everyone is bothered by some aspect of Korea from time to time. That being said, the chronic complainer that comes on Dave's year after year after year bemoaning how uncivilized and uncultured they are...well maybe it's time to change scenery.
Maybe it's an internet thing, I'm old and old school. Back in the day sitting around a table of empty bottles if someone went on a rant about how Koreans are all this or all that, we'd tell him "Dude you need to get the hell out of here." That would elicit one of two responses. One, "You're right! I'm ef'n outta here." and in a few weeks they'd bee off to different pastures. Or two, "Nah, it's cool. I like it here but man sometimes it just gets to me. I guess I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening. How do you deal with it?"
Now on the internet there seems to be a third response. I think a lot is lost due to the medium and like I said I chalk the occasional comment up to that. The perpetual negativity, again over years and years by some posters however makes me wonder if it isn't time to just leave. It's not that hard to do. People leave everyday.
What was the original topic / vent about? A guy that's been here ten years and has his panties in a wad about something and chose to whine about how Korean sounds? "Dude you need a break from this place. Let me but you another beer."
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| T-J wrote: |
| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| Say what, now? Stu hasn't even been to Korea? He doesn't live here? Yet he's telling us how we should feel about the place? What a complete idiot. He's not even a green newbie yet and he's lecturing us veterans about adjusting to Korean society. Ignore this fool. |
Who invited you to the vets' table noob?
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I have zero interest in participating in the thread topic, but when I see comments like this from you, it makes me curious if folks like bluelake who have been here for quite an extraordinary amount of time view people like you who have been here appreciably long, but not quite as long as they have, with similar - faux or legitimate, you could be cleverly trolling posters who write off people with very little time in country like Smithington did - "noobish" contempt?
I'm not really trying to be caustic, really I'm not. It just seems like 15 years is equally as arbitrary as 10 years, or 5 years, or 2 years or 1 year. I know people who have been here less time than me who have far more ingrained ties to society here than myself, and I also know people who have been here longer, who haven't made significant strides in that regard.
However, I think we can all agree that someone who has yet to arrive in the country may very well be able to provide an insightful point of view, but certainly not any insight itself. |
I was rushed what I should have said was, Who invited you to the vets' table noob? Bluelake hasn't even asked me to the table yet.
After 23 years and having forgotten more than some will ever learn the thing that I still enjoy is that I'm still learning. Anybody that says they understand Korea or have it figured out are full of it.
To the point of 'Leave if you don't like it', I've never been keen on the sentiment. Everyone has good days and bad. Everyone has a day they ask themselves "what the hell am I doing here?" Everyone is bothered by some aspect of Korea from time to time. That being said, the chronic complainer that comes on Dave's year after year after year bemoaning how uncivilized and uncultured they are...well maybe it's time to change scenery.
Maybe it's an internet thing, I'm old and old school. Back in the day sitting around a table of empty bottles if someone went on a rant about how Koreans are all this or all that, we'd tell him "Dude you need to get the hell out of here." That would elicit one of two responses. One, "You're right! I'm ef'n outta here." and in a few weeks they'd bee off to different pastures. Or two, "Nah, it's cool. I like it here but man sometimes it just gets to me. I guess I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening. How do you deal with it?"
Now on the internet there seems to be a third response. I think a lot is lost due to the medium and like I said I chalk the occasional comment up to that. The perpetual negativity, again over years and years by some posters however makes me wonder if it isn't time to just leave. It's not that hard to do. People leave everyday.
What was the original topic / vent about? A guy that's been here ten years and has his panties in a wad about something and chose to whine about how Korean sounds? "Dude you need a break from this place. Let me but you another beer."
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I never read anything you have to say because of the colour. Its very uncomfortable to look at. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| You ain't missing much. |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| MrBlackCat wrote: |
| The line, "If you don't like it get out!" can be applied to about 98% of the world's population. |
People are awfully fond of telling other people how they should live their lives.
Suggesting to someone they should move on is one of those backhanded condescensions that people try to dress-up as well-meaning concern.
Everywhere you go in the world, people get a kick out of telling you you should be living somewhere else or doing better for yourself.
| Cj1976 wrote: |
| the discontented grumblings of expats. |
This is a worldwide phenomenon.
last time I was in London I watched some pretty bitter poles interacting with local brits.
They are subject to all the same rudeness, pushiness and anti-foreign attitudes that expats in korea may face.
Foreign people in any country have to behave ten times better than the locals just to be thought of as human. |
Truth hurts. Face it, many of the people who complain all the time are just lames who can't take responsibility over the decisions they made in life. it isn't like they just woke up one day and started hating Korea.
They made decisions that led to them to be in the crappy life they're in. Own up to it and try to make it better instead of blaming outside circumstances and people on your pitiful miserable life. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| 3DR wrote: |
Truth hurts. Face it, many of the people who complain all the time are just lames who can't take responsibility over the decisions they made in life. it isn't like they just woke up one day and started hating Korea.
They made decisions that led to them to be in the crappy life they're in. Own up to it and try to make it better instead of blaming outside circumstances and people on your pitiful miserable life. |
You're blaming foreign people for the abuse they suffer when outside of their home countries?
Its their fault for venturing outside of their homelands, they should just go back where they came from and it'll stop?
In the case of the Poles I referred to earlier- they were simply fathers trying to do the best for their fam,ilies by taking advantage of better job opportunities in the UK. In most cases they did jobs that british people did not want or were unable to do. Does that make them deserving of the small-minded xenophobia they got from the unintelligent, unemployed bigots on English council estates? They felt frustrated and angry at the attitudes and perceptions thrown at them and their own lack of control of the situations they found themselves in. |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| 3DR wrote: |
Truth hurts. Face it, many of the people who complain all the time are just lames who can't take responsibility over the decisions they made in life. it isn't like they just woke up one day and started hating Korea.
They made decisions that led to them to be in the crappy life they're in. Own up to it and try to make it better instead of blaming outside circumstances and people on your pitiful miserable life. |
You're blaming foreign people for the abuse they suffer when outside of their home countries?
Its their fault for venturing outside of their homelands, they should just go back where they came from and it'll stop?
In the case of the Poles I referred to earlier- they were simply fathers trying to do the best for their fam,ilies by taking advantage of better job opportunities in the UK. In most cases they did jobs that british people did not want or were unable to do. Does that make them deserving of the small-minded xenophobia they got from the unintelligent, unemployed bigots on English council estates? They felt frustrated and angry at the attitudes and perceptions thrown at them and their own lack of control of the situations they found themselves in. |
Yes, hating the way Koreans talk is abuse  |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| 3DR wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| 3DR wrote: |
Truth hurts. Face it, many of the people who complain all the time are just lames who can't take responsibility over the decisions they made in life. it isn't like they just woke up one day and started hating Korea.
They made decisions that led to them to be in the crappy life they're in. Own up to it and try to make it better instead of blaming outside circumstances and people on your pitiful miserable life. |
You're blaming foreign people for the abuse they suffer when outside of their home countries?
Its their fault for venturing outside of their homelands, they should just go back where they came from and it'll stop?
In the case of the Poles I referred to earlier- they were simply fathers trying to do the best for their fam,ilies by taking advantage of better job opportunities in the UK. In most cases they did jobs that british people did not want or were unable to do. Does that make them deserving of the small-minded xenophobia they got from the unintelligent, unemployed bigots on English council estates? They felt frustrated and angry at the attitudes and perceptions thrown at them and their own lack of control of the situations they found themselves in. |
Yes, hating the way Koreans talk is abuse |
You both make good points so I believe both of you. |
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