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depth
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:48 am Post subject: advice please - not being paid overtime |
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hi all,
if any of the forum experts could please advise,
I am being asked to do overtime, but the hogwan are saying they wont pay me for the over time. they are saying because there were holidays during the month, i didn't fill my contract 120 hours so the overtime is actually considered as part of my 120 hours.
example: there was one day holiday in the month, on that day there were 5 classes. i am being asked to do overtime of 5 classes to make up for the lost 5 classes of the holiday and that I wont be paid overtime for extra 5 classes. the hagwan are saying they wont pay for the 5 extra classes overtime because i didnt do the 5 classes on the holiday.
Can anyone please advise where i stand on this?
holidays are for rest. i shouldn't have to make up for lost classes. thats like saying yesterday was a holiday so today you must work 16 hours to make up for the lost time?
regards, |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:03 am Post subject: Re: advice please - not being paid overtime |
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| depth wrote: |
hi all,
if any of the forum experts could please advise,
I am being asked to do overtime, but the hogwan are saying they wont pay me for the over time. they are saying because there were holidays during the month, i didn't fill my contract 120 hours so the overtime is actually considered as part of my 120 hours.
example: there was one day holiday in the month, on that day there were 5 classes. i am being asked to do overtime of 5 classes to make up for the lost 5 classes of the holiday and that I wont be paid overtime for extra 5 classes. the hagwan are saying they wont pay for the 5 extra classes overtime because i didnt do the 5 classes on the holiday.
Can anyone please advise where i stand on this?
holidays are for rest. i shouldn't have to make up for lost classes. thats like saying yesterday was a holiday so today you must work 16 hours to make up for the lost time?
regards, |
Quite simply, you're getting screwed. How much you want to stay at this hagwon determines your next move. |
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Blanca
Joined: 19 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Find another job. Once you've got it, the day after payday go to your boss with a letter of resignation and a letter of release, post-dated so you can give them your full notice. Tell him/her the situation, that you'll leave if they don't pay you what they owe you immediately, and if he wants you to work your notice, he needs to sign the letter of release there and then. If he refuses, sit in the staff room and refuse to teach until he comes to his senses.
If everything goes *beep*-up, I'm afraid you're up sh!t creek. You'll probably be fired and if you walk out with no letter of release, you'll need new documents. It'd be better than working for people who expect you to make up classes you missed on holiday though. |
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sigmundsmith
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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What they are doing is illegal. If you check your contract about vacations, it should state that you get 'X' number of days vacation plus public holidays. I'm sure in the contract that it won't mention anything about making up those lost classes due to public holidays.
What I would do is contact the labor board first (and right now). Get some concrete information about the legalities of this and then go back to your employer with this information.
A previous poster said that you should tell them that you will leave if they don't pay you and to sit in the staff room to get a letter of release.
First, threatening them with no support will not help your cause. Get the evidence of the legalities first from the labor board. Also, point out that such a clause was not written in your contract (I know that for many places contracts are very flexible from the employers perspective).
Second, they are not required to give you a letter of release under Korean labor law. So, if you went in there and threatened them with not working until they pay you overtime and they refuse, they could just fire you on the spot. And if you don't leave the 'staff room' they could call the police on you.
Don't get all aggressive. It won't help your problem. Get the correct information first from the labor board and present that to them. If they refuse to listen then contact the labor board in front of them and have them speak to a representative.
Also, you can do a little subtle shaming and tell them that you are only following Korean legal system and that you are surprised that they are quite openly breaking the law. Tell them, where "I come from, we don't like breaking the law as it's an embarrassment to ourselves, and our family."
Good luck! |
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beentheredonethat777
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: AsiaHaven
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: advice please - not being paid overtime |
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[quote="depth"]hi all,
if any of the forum experts could please advise,
| Quote: |
I am being asked to do overtime, but the hogwan are saying they wont pay me for the over time. they are saying because there were holidays during the month, i didn't fill my contract 120 hours so the overtime is actually considered as part of my 120 hours.
example: there was one day holiday in the month, on that day there were 5 classes. i am being asked to do overtime of 5 classes to make up for the lost 5 classes of the holiday and that I wont be paid overtime for extra 5 classes. the hagwan are saying they wont pay for the 5 extra classes overtime because i didnt do the 5 classes on the holiday.
Can anyone please advise where i stand on this?
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You are correct in thinking you're bent over without the Vaseline. However, there are some schools/contracts that state
regardless, if there is a holiday in during the month 120 hours of teaching hours will be performed by the teacher. I know because a school tried pulling this on me. NOT!
This means that you will indeed teach 120 hours. No overtime. Regardless.
Especially if your contract states, "a minimum of 120 teaching hours constitutes a full month of salary." I've seen those loosely worded contracted that are open to interpretation
There is another BIG franchise that calls them "sessions". They have cleverly created "schedules" that work out to not getting paid for any holidays but still working 120 hours a month.
If you like your job, work the 5 hours.
If you don't, refuse ,then expect to be treated like #@$t for the rest of the year.
Just know that if you do it once, you will have to do it again and again.
So, with Chuseok coming up , will you be expected to work 3 extra days?
Where do you stand? In the front of the room ...and teach. |
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le-paul
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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i printed out a copy of the labour standards/laws and calmly handed it over with my contract saying by law, 'x' should happen. That was enough. Just the suggestion of knowing your rights is usually enough.
Koreans are like scavengers and will take every advantage given to them - no matter how small. Remember, in their culture, its not seen as a negative for have been able to take advantage of someone - the contrary.
The alternative is to suck it up. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: Re: advice please - not being paid overtime |
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| depth wrote: |
hi all,
if any of the forum experts could please advise,
I am being asked to do overtime, but the hogwan are saying they wont pay me for the over time. they are saying because there were holidays during the month, i didn't fill my contract 120 hours so the overtime is actually considered as part of my 120 hours.
example: there was one day holiday in the month, on that day there were 5 classes. i am being asked to do overtime of 5 classes to make up for the lost 5 classes of the holiday and that I wont be paid overtime for extra 5 classes. the hagwan are saying they wont pay for the 5 extra classes overtime because i didnt do the 5 classes on the holiday.
Can anyone please advise where i stand on this?
holidays are for rest. i shouldn't have to make up for lost classes. thats like saying yesterday was a holiday so today you must work 16 hours to make up for the lost time?
regards, |
This Korean accounting system for holidays is widespread, so it's not just your hogwan. Several public school teachers have reported the same thing in the past on Dave's - their holday hours were not included when computing OT. At least some large industrial employers do this as well. Although it seems obviously wrong that a worker ends up paying for his own overtime, Koreans don't seem to see anything wrong with it.
Most teachers either never have OT or they don't track their hours closely enough to notice, or they have just accepted that they are being cheated without figuring out what is actually happening.
The concept from the Korean accounting perspective is this:
You are on salary, you have a holiday off and you are paid your full salary, so you have been paid for your holiday. But, if you read your contract carefully, it will usually state that you are paid for overtime when you work more than some fixed number of hours per week or month. So, under the Korean system, let's say you usually work 30 hours per week plus 6 hours of OT. During a holiday week, you had a day off, and you still got your full monthly salary. But, in adding up the hours you actually worked for the week, you only worked 30 hours, so you didn't earn any overtime.
OP, you should not accuse your boss of doing anything illegal, nor get upset or angry. You can raise the issue in a calm, questioning manner and attempt to explain. It may not be worth going to battle over 6 hours pay. It might be advisable to the Labor Office first to ask if they consider this to be a proper way to compute overtime. If they agree with you, you will have something to pursue.
There are businesses and schools that pay OT the way we are used to, by the proper treatment of holiday hours when calculating OT. A truly honest school would guarantee proper accounting for holidays in its contracts. |
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wings
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| You are on salary, you have a holiday off and you are paid your full salary, so you have been paid for your holiday. But, if you read your contract carefully, it will usually state that you are paid for overtime when you work more than some fixed number of hours per week or month. So, under the Korean system, let's say you usually work 30 hours per week plus 6 hours of OT. During a holiday week, you had a day off, and you still got your full monthly salary. But, in adding up the hours you actually worked for the week, you only worked 30 hours, so you didn't earn any overtime. |
This is incorrect. Holidays count as hours worked. For example: I work 20 hours a week, and occasionally 1 hour per day of overtime. I work for the government and have never had any problems with my pay. If we have a holiday then I get paid my regular salary plus the hours of overtime that I worked. The only pay I lose is for the hour of overtime that I didn't work. Even though I actually only taught 16 hours, they have to count your holiday as your regular day, so, for legal purposes I've taught 20 hours + the 1 hour of overtime that I worked each day (obviously not getting paid for the overtime that I didn't work on the holiday). |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| wings wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You are on salary, you have a holiday off and you are paid your full salary, so you have been paid for your holiday. But, if you read your contract carefully, it will usually state that you are paid for overtime when you work more than some fixed number of hours per week or month. So, under the Korean system, let's say you usually work 30 hours per week plus 6 hours of OT. During a holiday week, you had a day off, and you still got your full monthly salary. But, in adding up the hours you actually worked for the week, you only worked 30 hours, so you didn't earn any overtime. |
This is incorrect. Holidays count as hours worked. For example: I work 20 hours a week, and occasionally 1 hour per day of overtime. I work for the government and have never had any problems with my pay. If we have a holiday then I get paid my regular salary plus the hours of overtime that I worked. The only pay I lose is for the hour of overtime that I didn't work. Even though I actually only taught 16 hours, they have to count your holiday as your regular day, so, for legal purposes I've taught 20 hours + the 1 hour of overtime that I worked each day (obviously not getting paid for the overtime that I didn't work on the holiday). |
There are some hogwans, businesses and government offices that pay "correctly" according to Western accounting practices, some that pay according to the Korean accounting that I explained above, and there are some that use a modified version of the Korean accounting for holidays, as in your case, which still underpays the workers.
When your hours are scheduled in advance, which hours are the OT hours ... ?
Technically, overtime hours are the last hours of work in the measured period that put you over your base hours.
If your salary is based on working 30 hours per week (M-F) and you are scheduled for 7 hours per day, for 35 hours per week, under GAAP your last 5 hours on Friday are your OT hours. If you have a Wednesday holiday you should be paid for all 7 hours, not six. You do not have one hour of OT each day.
The fact that you've accepted not being paid for a scheduled hour on your holiday means you've accepted one of the modified versions of this Korean accounting system. They are essentially cheating you out of one hour of pay and you've accepted and defended this Korean accounting system.
If you are regularly scheduled for 7 hours on a certain day each week and on some occasion that day is a holiday, then you should be paid for 7 hours on your holiday.
(You can recompute for a 20 hour base week with 4 hours per day and a regularly scheduled OT hour on a day that became a holiday for you ... You should be paid for that hour, but under Korean accounting you are not.)
OTOH, if you mean that you sometimes have unscheduled overtime, such as a dishwasher who needs an unscheduled extra hour to finish his work, then that hour is not be a preplanned, scheduled hour, would not exist without the unplanned need for extra time and is not counted for holiday purposes. |
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