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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:40 am Post subject: |
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Good point, I didn't answer the question:
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| So what would you have done? Keep in mind how startling it is to wake up and there be a stranger literally looming over your bed. |
If my wife was screaming and woke me up, my muscles would be tight, my heart pounding and initially I would be nearly frozen in fear; seeing the intruder I would be more afraid, recoil slightly and then I would lunge and attack, not out of courage but again in fear, and if he didn't fight back as in the incident, I would pound his face a few times, throw him on the floor, pinning him facedown, all while screaming to call the police. Holding him down and screaming, I would slowly begin to regain control of my senses and consider the situation and the pain of my heart pounding in my chest and I would start screaming "what are you doing here you son of a b.." along with "call the police" which being Korean he probably wouldn't understand, but everyone in rooms nearby would hear the screaming and crashing and some might come or call 119. My wife would also be afraid, would try to help me, would try stop me if she thought I was going to kill the guy, and while at first too afraid, she would then call 119.
It would take quite a while and the police might arrive before I could think clearly about the right thing to do. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
Always, always, stay in classy places in Korea and avoid this $ hit. Too bad, you couldn't have clocked him and then got your stuff and got out of there quickly. If there's an opportunity to knock some idiot down and then get out of there without any witnesses, then he could have gotten what's coming to him. But, yeah, the laws here are messed up that way. You're not even allowed to defend yourself, especially if you're a foriegner.
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Sorry but that last sentence is absolute garbage. The police here have very strict criteria when it comes to determining self-defence.
This is what the Korean
National Police Agency says itself
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| The Korean National Police Agency also recently revised its guidelines for identifying instances of self-defense. The agency outlines eight criteria in determining whether a case meets the requirements: The act must have been intended to defend; the defender must not have started the violence; The act of defending cannot be more violent than the attack itself; a deadly weapon was not used; further violence cannot be used after the attack; the defender cannot inflict more harm than the attacker; the act must not result in harm requiring more than three weeks of hospitalization. |
(hmm that's only seven...)
Note particularly number 3.
The response MUST be proportionate
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| One of the most controversial cases involving self-defense in Korean legal history occurred in 1992, when a man who had habitually raped his step-daughter was killed by her boyfriend. The Supreme Court accepted that there had been a “threat of imminent harm” required for a plea of self-defense, but not that the response had been proportionate. The two were found guilty of murder. |
Granted it's not always easy to judge proportionate response to an act of violence towards yourself...but that is the law here and anyway it is not what I am pointing out.
You are allowed to defend yourself in Korea as long as your actions meet the criteria outlined by the police.
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20121203000521 |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| UrbanMyth wrote: |
| The act of defending cannot be more violent than the attack itself |
So then the Op should have breathed heavily back. That'll teach em. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| r2b2ct wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| r2b2ct wrote: |
| If the guy was just standing there I don't see why you think you acted "beta." Beating up someone who is clearly no threat is pretty barbaric. |
No. This guy deserved a moderate A-whoopin at the very least if for no other reason to teach him a lesson. Next time he might not get off so easy. |
Yeah, he'd get a great lesson in how to extort blood money. |
Surely you can use force on someone who breaks into your hotel/house? Right? |
Not in this country.
In America, you can put a bullet in his @$$. In Canada, they'll actually try to charge you, but a jury won't convict. (My dumb@$$ country at times. But, not as bad as Korea, I guess.) |
I believe in Canada the key term is 'reasonable force'. So, if you feel your life is in imminent danger then deadly force can be acceptable. |
If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy.
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| UrbanMyth wrote: |
| The act of defending cannot be more violent than the attack itself |
So then the Op should have breathed heavily back. That'll teach em. |
hahaha, yeah, that part stood out to me. A man can break into your house, with a weapon, and you cannot "initiate violence" or be more violent" - that'd mean you'd have to let him start hacking.
Seems wrong. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy. |
Agreed, but if he's unarmed... be sure to restrain yourself. |
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greatunknown
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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In regards to using force in general, Korean friend of mine who is a bar owner told me he has had to use violence many times. According to him the police usually side with someone who is on the job and not under the influence.
Obviously this is different than my situation but still, food for thought. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy. |
Agreed, but if he's unarmed... be sure to restrain yourself. |
I might agree if the sitaution is out in public on the streets or in a bar. But in my house, at night, when I'm sleeping, standing right over my bed- all bets are off. Any amount of force is acceptable including deadly force, including firearms. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy. |
Agreed, but if he's unarmed... be sure to restrain yourself. |
I might agree if the sitaution is out in public on the streets or in a bar. But in my house, at night, when I'm sleeping, standing right over my bed- all bets are off. Any amount of force is acceptable including deadly force, including firearms. |
Firearms? This is Korea, not Florida. Besides, he subdued the guy. The only question remaining was whether he should have given the guy a beating, or turned the guy over to the police. Or both. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| greatunknown wrote: |
In regards to using force in general, Korean friend of mine who is a bar owner told me he has had to use violence many times. According to him the police usually side with someone who is on the job and not under the influence.
Obviously this is different than my situation but still, food for thought. |
I was actually wondering what the Korean take would have been on your story.....what would the consensus be, from the Korean point of view? |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Regardless of how justified you feel, the law here is no on your side in beating up intruders. Personally I would feel I would need to neutralize the potential threat as quickly as possible. In that situation you can't know right away if he's armed, there to steal stuff, murder or rape your loved ones. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy. |
Agreed, but if he's unarmed... be sure to restrain yourself. |
I might agree if the sitaution is out in public on the streets or in a bar. But in my house, at night, when I'm sleeping, standing right over my bed- all bets are off. Any amount of force is acceptable including deadly force, including firearms. |
Firearms? This is Korea, not Florida. Besides, he subdued the guy. The only question remaining was whether he should have given the guy a beating, or turned the guy over to the police. Or both. |
Hypothetical not restricted by location. In the Op's scenario, the guy could probably sue him for harming him while subduing him. The perp would probably win in a Korean court. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy. |
Agreed, but if he's unarmed... be sure to restrain yourself. |
I might agree if the sitaution is out in public on the streets or in a bar. But in my house, at night, when I'm sleeping, standing right over my bed- all bets are off. Any amount of force is acceptable including deadly force, including firearms. |
Firearms? This is Korea, not Florida. Besides, he subdued the guy. The only question remaining was whether he should have given the guy a beating, or turned the guy over to the police. Or both. |
Hypothetical not restricted by location. In the Op's scenario, the guy could probably sue him for harming him while subduing him. The perp would probably win in a Korean court. |
But a hypothetical not restricted to South Korea is not relevant to the thread. And in the OP's scenario, even in SK I doubt the perp would have much standing, unless a thrashing was administered after submission. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy. |
Agreed, but if he's unarmed... be sure to restrain yourself. |
I might agree if the sitaution is out in public on the streets or in a bar. But in my house, at night, when I'm sleeping, standing right over my bed- all bets are off. Any amount of force is acceptable including deadly force, including firearms. |
Firearms? This is Korea, not Florida. Besides, he subdued the guy. The only question remaining was whether he should have given the guy a beating, or turned the guy over to the police. Or both. |
Hypothetical not restricted by location. In the Op's scenario, the guy could probably sue him for harming him while subduing him. The perp would probably win in a Korean court. |
But a hypothetical not restricted to South Korea is not relevant to the thread. And in the OP's scenario, even in SK I doubt the perp would have much standing, unless a thrashing was administered after submission. |
Diasagree. Let's say he hurt the guy while pushing him to the corner: broken nose, cut, twisted arm. If the perp told the cops he made a mistake, entered the wrong room, and the guy attacked him and hurt him, good chance the OP would be paying blood money. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy. |
Agreed, but if he's unarmed... be sure to restrain yourself. |
I might agree if the sitaution is out in public on the streets or in a bar. But in my house, at night, when I'm sleeping, standing right over my bed- all bets are off. Any amount of force is acceptable including deadly force, including firearms. |
Firearms? This is Korea, not Florida. Besides, he subdued the guy. The only question remaining was whether he should have given the guy a beating, or turned the guy over to the police. Or both. |
Hypothetical not restricted by location. In the Op's scenario, the guy could probably sue him for harming him while subduing him. The perp would probably win in a Korean court. |
But a hypothetical not restricted to South Korea is not relevant to the thread. And in the OP's scenario, even in SK I doubt the perp would have much standing, unless a thrashing was administered after submission. |
Diasagree. Let's say he hurt the guy while pushing him to the corner: broken nose, cut, twisted arm. If the perp told the cops he made a mistake, entered the wrong room, and the guy attacked him and hurt him, good chance the OP would be paying blood money. |
Wait a minute...I thought you said previously that all bets were off, and that any amount of force was acceptable...now you have become the perp's lawyer haha.....anyway, now we are talking about what actually happened...and I still say that even in Korea the OP would be deemed justified in his actions.....but I would still like to hear some comments on that... |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If a man breaks into my home at night... I honestly believe me and mine are in serious jeopardy. |
Agreed, but if he's unarmed... be sure to restrain yourself. |
I might agree if the sitaution is out in public on the streets or in a bar. But in my house, at night, when I'm sleeping, standing right over my bed- all bets are off. Any amount of force is acceptable including deadly force, including firearms. |
Firearms? This is Korea, not Florida. Besides, he subdued the guy. The only question remaining was whether he should have given the guy a beating, or turned the guy over to the police. Or both. |
Hypothetical not restricted by location. In the Op's scenario, the guy could probably sue him for harming him while subduing him. The perp would probably win in a Korean court. |
But a hypothetical not restricted to South Korea is not relevant to the thread. And in the OP's scenario, even in SK I doubt the perp would have much standing, unless a thrashing was administered after submission. |
Diasagree. Let's say he hurt the guy while pushing him to the corner: broken nose, cut, twisted arm. If the perp told the cops he made a mistake, entered the wrong room, and the guy attacked him and hurt him, good chance the OP would be paying blood money. |
Wait a minute...I thought you said previously that all bets were off, and that any amount of force was acceptable...now you have become the perp's lawyer haha.....anyway, now we are talking about what actually happened...and I still say that even in Korea the OP would be deemed justified in his actions.....but I would still like to hear some comments on that... |
The "all bets are off" comment is my personal opinion and what should be allowed with intruders. That's why I included a US scenario including firearms. Enter someones house at night and you should be prepared for the worst. |
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