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Stu_miller
Joined: 23 Apr 2014
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 Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
OP - you did fine. You got him out as soon as possible and no harm was done to you or your wife. By beating him up you aren't protecting anyone, instead you are digging yourself deeper into a hole. If you beat him up then you increase the chances for you to get in trouble with K-law or his fellow inebriated soldiers.
You handled the situation well, so don't listen to all the internet tough guys and roid ragers. |
100% agree. You did what you had to do; no more, no less. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
No, that man is a threat. And just as some are shocked that violence is my go-to answer, I'm as equally shocked by those who would not immediately respond with violence.
The guy may have made a mistake. He may be in my room asking for sugar. He may simply be wanting me to sign up to his MLM... but none of that compares to the risk of the more dangerous things he may be up to.
So my go to response would be to destroy him. To take him out. To make sure whatever threat he may pose is finished - and to also keep in mind that he very likely may not be alone. |
Yeah, I hear ya. I think it really would come down to time and place. Not sure how fast I'd think so I don't know if I could think that quickly to calculate the odds and I don't blame anyone if they don't. I mean if I was woken up by the guy crashing into the bathroom to pee or the sound of him taking a dump, that's pretty easy to figure out, even when you are surprised. Now standing over your bed, yeah the clues are not as clear and being safe and not sorry is a viable option.
Like I said, in my home and if I had kids that might cause more of a "primal" reaction vs. if I was in a pension (and odds are I'd have passed out drunk), in that case I might be less quick to act.
Still, I don't blame anyone who does give a thrashing. It's one of those things that can go either way and no matter what you do, people will second guess you unless you guess right, but there's no guarantee of that.
Someone could not give a thrashing and I'd see their point. Someone could give a thrashing and I could see their point. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
In the dark, standing over my child's bed, ALL burglars would look very menacing. I'm not going to take a minute to weigh the guy up - I'm going to destroy him as soon as I can.
The law is for after the fact - making sure this guy can do no harm to my family is job number one. |
Indeed that is job number one. But why does that have to be a "thrashing" (I think you used that word earlier; maybe something else along those lines.)
You can very well make sure the guy can do no harm by one punch and pinning him to the ground - especially a big guy like you. Wanting to beat the crap out of the guy sounds more like 'roid rage than protecting your family.
Now, if the guy is actually in contact with your wife or kids, or in bed, yeah go nuts. But if he's just standing there, it seems to be too much. |
There's always a bigger guy. A stronger guy. A better fighter. A guy with a weapon - or a friend.
Fights are rarely clean. Rarely do you one punch a guy and just hold them and they simply say "ok, I'm done." Can it happen? Sure. But so can a host of other outcomes.
Why is it then ok to "go nuts" if they've touched my wife? Why not simply detain them? Why is emotion ok in that situation, but not in another? Sorry, but that distinction doesn't make tons of sense to me - especially considering that you're waking up from a sleep, in the dark, and have limited knowledge of what's going on/what's happened.
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| the fact that you'd bring up me going to the gym into a discussion about home break ins is asinine. |
The fact that you say this
Honestly, I would have beat him.
he'd be taken out right quick
I'm going to destroy him
.....coupled with your super hero avatar and the fact that you contribute a lot to threads on lifting weights may lead people to make assumptions about you. If you really assume when people do this it's just a mindless personal attack rather than a lack of self awareness on your part, I think you need to re-think the way you come across. And as you know nobody cares about what you did or saw in your home country, You crowbar your strength and size into a lot of non-related conversations so you shouldn't really be surprised when people remember it in a thread like this |
I lived in Korea for 10 years without going to the gym. My posting is/was no different on these sort of issues. I've had that avatar for a decade as well. Lifting weights has nothing to do with me feeling that a person who breaks into my house is a major threat to my family. Get over your own insecurities about others that lift.
You don't care that a little girl I knew got butchered? Well *beep* you too. That, along with other things I've experienced, plays into my reactions and choices. Perhaps if you knew some victims of murder you might react differently as well.
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Like I said, in my home and if I had kids that might cause more of a "primal" reaction vs. if I was in a pension (and odds are I'd have passed out drunk), in that case I might be less quick to act. |
I always have my kid with me. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Too true. Like I said, I've had a situation in my life where someone has stumbled into my room drunk. At the same time, as you know, I've had people I know be victims of crime. Hence, why I am totally down with act first, ask later.
A lot of people are giving Mr. Captain a lot of grief, but you have to remember that he has a family and that REALLY alters the situation. Not to mention, as I said, the lifestyles we have may be different. Some of us may be looking at it only from the perspective of someone who is single or dating. If you are with a bunch of other people at some beach house getting drunk in a place where a bunch of other people are getting drunk and you've been getting bombed and everyone is partying together and you're a single dude or with your girl, you might not be so quick to act. But if you live a stable family lifestyle and suddenly some guy is in your bedroom, you don't have the luxury of going "A yo bro, wut the hell?" And if you're a family on a beach house where a lot of people are partying, sorry, but the rights of families and responsible citizens to protect themselves outweigh those of drunks to party and be cut some slack. That doesn't mean I'm down with Joey O'Biden's idea of firing off a few random shotgun blasts at unseen targets, but it does mean if someone is in your house, they aren't supposed to be there and you have every right to take them out.
Families should have the benefit of the doubt when it comes to protecting themselves. I see both sides in this, but in his context, CC is absolutely right. Better to be out 3 million won or doing 6 months in jail on a misdemeanor than being out a family member. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, you're right - context is very important. And the only one that really knows it, is the OP. The rest of us are just postulating what we'd do - and as you mentioned, we bring all sorts of baggage into that - both good and bad. |
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greatunknown
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
OP, what has your wife said about your reaction?
To me, you handled it well, but only your wife and you really know what kind of vibe this guy was giving off. Either a "Young, drunk, confused guy" vibe, a "Holy shit a white dude with a Korean girl I gotta check this out" kind of vibe, or just a staight up "perv" vibe. If it was perv, he probably deserved a bit of an ass kicking. But the story sounds like it was more of the first vibe, so in that case you handled it well.
And as many people pointed out, if you had beaten the shizznit out of him while all he did was standing there, the police would have gone after you. |
She thinks we handled the situation well.
The guy by the way was maybe 5"9 and like 140 pounds. I am 6"4 and 230 pounds. He really wasnt much of a threat. I also believe he was in the room because he drank too much, didnt have a room key and climbed in the wrong window.
That being said in the heat of the moment and in the middle of the njght with all of the adrenaline I am sure lots of people wouldnt have been so gentle with the guy.
This time it all ended well but if he had become violent or otherwise escalated the situation himself, as a foreigner, I feel slightly vulnerable because Im not sure the police would even consider my side of the story.
Anyway its interesting to hear your opinions. Anyone have any actual experience dealing with the police in regards to this sort of thing? |
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Newbie
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
There's always a bigger guy. A stronger guy. A better fighter. A guy with a weapon - or a friend.
Fights are rarely clean. Rarely do you one punch a guy and just hold them and they simply say "ok, I'm done." Can it happen? Sure. But so can a host of other outcomes. |
Sure. I guess I'm mixing your hypothetical guy standing over your wife's/child's bed with the OP's guy - a young, Korean army guy who in my mind I picture as 95% of all the young Korean army guys you see out there: small and scrawny, not threatening looking at all.
| Quote: |
Why is it then ok to "go nuts" if they've touched my wife? Why not simply detain them? Why is emotion ok in that situation, but not in another? Sorry, but that distinction doesn't make tons of sense to me - especially considering that you're waking up from a sleep, in the dark, and have limited knowledge of what's going on/what's happened.
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You lose me on this one. Completely different situations/different cimes, to me at least. The standing guy is drunk, confused, maybe lost. He's trespassing. Throwing him into the corner and then kicking him out seems appropriate. The guy touching your wife/child is a definite danger and immediate threat that needs to be immobilized and should pay for what he's done. |
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jsk
Joined: 31 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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I never experienced the shoves until I moved to Seoul. I spent my first 8 months in Daejeon and people were generally polite there. It wasn't until I spent the next year and a half in north Seoul and Yongsan where I came across the drunk/belligerent ajoshis/ajumas on a regular basis. A couple of times, a knucklehead would even spit on the sidewalk in front of me. I normally walked around in khakis and a dress shirt for work and maybe this made me more susceptible to the shoving, as some of these people looked like some hardcore postwar survivors with class rage.
One thing is certain, after living in Seoul for 1.5 years, urban etiquette in America is pretty blasé. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
You don't care that a little girl I knew got butchered? Well *beep* you too. That, along with other things I've experienced, plays into my reactions and choices. Perhaps if you knew some victims of murder you might react differently
A lot of people are giving Mr. Captain a lot of grief, but you have to remember that he has a family and that REALLY alters the situation. |
All just emotional claptrap. If you really feel that your past experiences would lead you to break the law during moments of uncertainty like this it might be an idea to get some therapy and try to limit the possibility. Otherwise, we all know launching a physical attack at the guy without asking any questions first would be the wrong thing to do and would probably lead to an assault charge so why don't we all agree we will avoid doing this if we find ourselves in this situation in the future?
| Quote: |
| Get over your own insecurities about others that lift |
Ha, ha and what do you think those are? I don't have any views at all about people who lift weights except when they also say things like they're going to 'destroy' someone? Then the thought crosses my mind that their hobby and their attitude might be linked in some way. Does that really surprise you? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Newbie wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
There's always a bigger guy. A stronger guy. A better fighter. A guy with a weapon - or a friend.
Fights are rarely clean. Rarely do you one punch a guy and just hold them and they simply say "ok, I'm done." Can it happen? Sure. But so can a host of other outcomes. |
Sure. I guess I'm mixing your hypothetical guy standing over your wife's/child's bed with the OP's guy - a young, Korean army guy who in my mind I picture as 95% of all the young Korean army guys you see out there: small and scrawny, not threatening looking at all.
| Quote: |
Why is it then ok to "go nuts" if they've touched my wife? Why not simply detain them? Why is emotion ok in that situation, but not in another? Sorry, but that distinction doesn't make tons of sense to me - especially considering that you're waking up from a sleep, in the dark, and have limited knowledge of what's going on/what's happened.
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You lose me on this one. Completely different situations/different cimes, to me at least. The standing guy is drunk, confused, maybe lost. He's trespassing. Throwing him into the corner and then kicking him out seems appropriate. The guy touching your wife/child is a definite danger and immediate threat that needs to be immobilized and should pay for what he's done. |
My point was - you wake up in the middle of a night to a scream from your wife/girl. You see a guy standing over you bed look at you - you don't know what transpired to make that scream. As well, what if he only touched her toe? Tapped her leg to ask a question?
Again, there's a certain amount of emotion attached to a person "invading" your home. You draw the line at a touch - that's it's then ok to assault him. I draw it at being in my room late at night. In both scenarios, the stranger has committed a crime. For me, the question then becomes - what is the state of mind, and the relative safety, of the victim?
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
You don't care that a little girl I knew got butchered? Well *beep* you too. That, along with other things I've experienced, plays into my reactions and choices. Perhaps if you knew some victims of murder you might react differently
A lot of people are giving Mr. Captain a lot of grief, but you have to remember that he has a family and that REALLY alters the situation. |
All just emotional claptrap. If you really feel that your past experiences would lead you to break the law during moments of uncertainty like this it might be an idea to get some therapy and try to limit the possibility. Otherwise, we all know launching a physical attack at the guy without asking any questions first would be the wrong thing to do and would probably lead to an assault charge so why don't we all agree we will avoid doing this if we find ourselves in this situation in the future? |
No. We don't all "know" that. In fact, many posters have already said that they would either launch into a physical attack, or understood if someone did. In fact, the OP who was in the situation himself, said basically that a few posts above.
As for me breaking the law, Im not sure I would be. But, I'd be fine with doing what I felt I had to do, and then letting the courts decide. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're not a lawyer here, and FLC, a judge, or a prosecutor, right? Hell, if memory serves, you don't even live in korea.
Don't worry about me, man - I work in a law firm. If I ever do get into a situation where I need to go to court, I'm comfortable in my ability to defend myself there too. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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You did the right thing.
Good job on not getting the police involved. There's the possibility you could've been arrested for using more force on him than he used on you.
It's hard to fault Captain Corea's point of view, though. The one thing that everyone who ever has been raped or murdered in their own home has in common is that an insufficient amount of force was used on the trespasser(s). |
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greatunknown
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
You did the right thing.
Good job on not getting the police involved. There's the possibility you could've been arrested for using more force on him than he used on you.
It's hard to fault Captain Corea's point of view, though. The one thing that everyone who ever has been raped or murdered in their own home has in common is that an insufficient amount of force was used on the trespasser(s). |
Thanks. I am curious about the bolded part. It seems unreasonable to expect someone to use less or equal force. He didnt touch either of us and I wasnt about to give him any opertunity to either. Obviously I have to get him out of the room and I did that without hurting him at all. I feel strongly that I did nothing that I could be arrested for. I suppose anything is possible but that really isnt what was going through my head at the time. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| We got a room at a 민박 |
Fact: If you stay at a minbak or anything less than a love motel you will have to deal with strange Koreans. Even more so if its out in the countryside.
Among Koreans almost everything is regarded as a social group event, and everyone is viewed as part of an extended family. Thus you will find Koreans assume the right to know your business, intrude on your privacy, and K-men will even assume they have more right to your wife/ g/f than you do- simply because she's Korean and you're not.
Forget about trying to save man won. Its more important to enjoy your free time. Stay at upscale places only where you can retain your own space, independence, and security. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:23 am Post subject: |
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| greatunknown wrote: |
| Thanks. I am curious about the bolded part. It seems unreasonable to expect someone to use less or equal force. He didnt touch either of us and I wasnt about to give him any opertunity to either. Obviously I have to get him out of the room and I did that without hurting him at all. I feel strongly that I did nothing that I could be arrested for. I suppose anything is possible but that really isnt what was going through my head at the time. |
I think you handled the situation well, but apparently the Korean National Police Agency says you have to use less or equal force, and you have to wait for the perp to initiate it. If the police would've shown up, if the perp would've said he was injured in some way, and if all of his friends backed him, your goose would've potentially been cooked. By the letter of the law, you could only verbally request him to leave, not grab him by the collar and throw him into the corner and subduing him (though I personally agree with what you did regardless of the law).
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
The police here have very strict criteria when it comes to determining self-defence.
This is what the Korean National Police Agency says itself
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| The Korean National Police Agency also recently revised its guidelines for identifying instances of self-defense. The agency outlines eight criteria in determining whether a case meets the requirements: The act must have been intended to defend; the defender must not have started the violence; The act of defending cannot be more violent than the attack itself; a deadly weapon was not used; further violence cannot be used after the attack; the defender cannot inflict more harm than the attacker; the act must not result in harm requiring more than three weeks of hospitalization. |
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TheMeerkatLover
Joined: 26 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| radcon wrote: |
| r2b2ct wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| r2b2ct wrote: |
| If the guy was just standing there I don't see why you think you acted "beta." Beating up someone who is clearly no threat is pretty barbaric. |
No. This guy deserved a moderate A-whoopin at the very least if for no other reason to teach him a lesson. Next time he might not get off so easy. |
Yeah, he'd get a great lesson in how to extort blood money. |
Surely you can use force on someone who breaks into your hotel/house? Right? |
No. There is no self defence law in Korea like we know in the West. In addition, there is no Castle Doctrine. If someone invades your home, you are more or less obligated to flee.
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20121203000521 |
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