|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Nester Noodlemon
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:29 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| I don't know much about soccer or the WC procedure. That being said, how did Korea get chosen to be in the WC when they were ranked around 63rd on the list? Is it something like some kind of rule that says you must let at least 1 retarded kid be involved in the game, water boy? And guess who the water boy was in this WC? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Each region gets so many entrants. Asia and North America are easy to qualify out of. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nester Noodlemon wrote: |
| I don't know much about soccer or the WC procedure. That being said, how did Korea get chosen to be in the WC when they were ranked around 63rd on the list? Is it something like some kind of rule that says you must let at least 1 retarded kid be involved in the game, water boy? And guess who the water boy was in this WC? |
Wouldn't be a 'world' cup if there are no teams from Asia. Asia gets 4 spots in the WC, which pretty much guarantees SK, Japan, Australia get spots. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nester Noodlemon wrote: |
| I don't know much about soccer or the WC procedure. That being said, how did Korea get chosen to be in the WC when they were ranked around 63rd on the list? Is it something like some kind of rule that says you must let at least 1 retarded kid be involved in the game, water boy? And guess who the water boy was in this WC? |
David Luiz?
Funny how Spain's, England's, Suarez's, Korea's, and Italy's embarrassments were all wiped out by that goat of a game by Brazil lead by Sideshow Bob. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
A Korean rep just came back after meeting with Bert van Marwijk. EUFA cup winner with Feyenoord 2001-02, runner-up in 2010 WC, then it's been disaster since. Last in the group in Euro12 and fired by HSV Hamburg after 6 months. I agree with the pundits, he's likely to be a waste-of-money.
As for why Korea is in the WC, if only the deserving teams were in then all 32 spots would be taken by European and South American teams. Maybe Mexico, but not USA. Nope, WC spots are distributed according to the television money that each confederation can and expect to generate. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JMO wrote: |
| Each region gets so many entrants. Asia and North America are easy to qualify out of. |
North America is not easy to qualify out of. They get 3 spots, and 2 of them are pretty much guaranteed to middle-soccer-powers USA and Mexico (two teams better than anything coming out of Asia or even Africa for that matter). In fact, USA, Mexico and Costa Rica are all ranked in the top 18, way ahead of any Asian or African country. A fourth spot is available in a playoff with other zones, too, but there are still strong teams competing for that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| andrewchon wrote: |
A Korean rep just came back after meeting with Bert van Marwijk. EUFA cup winner with Feyenoord 2001-02, runner-up in 2010 WC, then it's been disaster since. Last in the group in Euro12 and fired by HSV Hamburg after 6 months. I agree with the pundits, he's likely to be a waste-of-money.
As for why Korea is in the WC, if only the deserving teams were in then all 32 spots would be taken by European and South American teams. Maybe Mexico, but not USA. Nope, WC spots are distributed according to the television money that each confederation can and expect to generate. |
Actually, if we go by FIFA's ranking (which I know is problematic, but how else would we judge?) we'd have Mexico, Costa Rica and USA from NA, Algeria and Cote d'Ivoire from Africa and Turkey from Asia (which I know is actually in the European confederation, but geographically speaking). Right on the cusp would be Panama, Nigeria and Egypt. So yeah, it'd be dominated by Europe and SA, but not exclusive. It looks like really just Asia gets a major boost from how the places are distributed (and Oceania gets a chance, too).
But this is a good way to develop soccer/football worldwide. Soccer was pretty much nothing in Canada and the US until they hosted in 1994. Now it still might not seem like it's that big, but they got huge ratings this year and the MSL is catching on. Football/soccer is also developing more in Asia and Africa, which is good. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| Each region gets so many entrants. Asia and North America are easy to qualify out of. |
North America is not easy to qualify out of. They get 3 spots, and 2 of them are pretty much guaranteed to middle-soccer-powers USA and Mexico (two teams better than anything coming out of Asia or even Africa for that matter). In fact, USA, Mexico and Costa Rica are all ranked in the top 18, way ahead of any Asian or African country. A fourth spot is available in a playoff with other zones, too, but there are still strong teams competing for that. |
I'd like to point out that even though the USA is ranked 18, a lot of those lower ranked African teams would probably be too much to handle for you Americans. Those FIFA rankings are questionable, because Korea, Japan, and Australia would make pretty good games if playing the USA. In no way would 18th ranked USA be given too high odds to beat the sub-60th Korea, Japan, and Australia. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| Each region gets so many entrants. Asia and North America are easy to qualify out of. |
North America is not easy to qualify out of. They get 3 spots, and 2 of them are pretty much guaranteed to middle-soccer-powers USA and Mexico (two teams better than anything coming out of Asia or even Africa for that matter). In fact, USA, Mexico and Costa Rica are all ranked in the top 18, way ahead of any Asian or African country. A fourth spot is available in a playoff with other zones, too, but there are still strong teams competing for that. |
That is kind of what I meant. There are two good teams and three spots. So it is easy to qualify for those two teams. I don't consider Costa Rica as a good football nation.
I have never thought much at all about FIFA rankings. I don't know how accurate they are. I might be missing something there but I tend to think about Soccer as an economic machine.
The money is in Europe and in general the best players end up there in the best leagues. For teams outside Europe, you could basically take the Spanish, English, German and Italian leagues, throw in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Russia and so on if you want to ... then count how many players from a country play in those leagues. The best footballing nations will have the most players. This obviously doesn't work so well for European teams as it is no surprise that a ton of Germans play in Germany.
I don't like going just by world cups and international tournaments because there is so much randomness involved and they happen so rarely.
I'd also say if you combined Africa and North America and gave 6 total spots, I think there might be years that the USA doesn't qualify at all. It's harder sometimes to beat a bunch of similarly talented teams in qualification than to get up to play better teams in the cup.
edit: also i agree with the current system. its important to have teams from every continent. I also think the US has massive potential in soccer. They need to manage it right but a lot of people play the game there and MLS is well organized. They could build something great. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
van Marwijk has been offered the job. KFA is strangely insisting on a speaker of English  van Marwijk has a week to think about it. (or pray for a better offer)  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JMO wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
| Each region gets so many entrants. Asia and North America are easy to qualify out of. |
North America is not easy to qualify out of. They get 3 spots, and 2 of them are pretty much guaranteed to middle-soccer-powers USA and Mexico (two teams better than anything coming out of Asia or even Africa for that matter). In fact, USA, Mexico and Costa Rica are all ranked in the top 18, way ahead of any Asian or African country. A fourth spot is available in a playoff with other zones, too, but there are still strong teams competing for that. |
That is kind of what I meant. There are two good teams and three spots. So it is easy to qualify for those two teams. I don't consider Costa Rica as a good football nation.
I have never thought much at all about FIFA rankings. I don't know how accurate they are. I might be missing something there but I tend to think about Soccer as an economic machine.
The money is in Europe and in general the best players end up there in the best leagues. For teams outside Europe, you could basically take the Spanish, English, German and Italian leagues, throw in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Russia and so on if you want to ... then count how many players from a country play in those leagues. The best footballing nations will have the most players. This obviously doesn't work so well for European teams as it is no surprise that a ton of Germans play in Germany.
I don't like going just by world cups and international tournaments because there is so much randomness involved and they happen so rarely.
I'd also say if you combined Africa and North America and gave 6 total spots, I think there might be years that the USA doesn't qualify at all. It's harder sometimes to beat a bunch of similarly talented teams in qualification than to get up to play better teams in the cup.
edit: also i agree with the current system. its important to have teams from every continent. I also think the US has massive potential in soccer. They need to manage it right but a lot of people play the game there and MLS is well organized. They could build something great. |
Well, NA is still hard to qualify for. If Canada got to play Iran and Saudi Arabia instead of USA and Mexico....they still wouldn't make it 
I know the FIFA rankings are problematic, but it's all we got right now. What system would you prefer? Serious question, I'm trying to learn about this stuff! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
I know the FIFA rankings are problematic, but it's all we got right now. What system would you prefer? Serious question, I'm trying to learn about this stuff! |
Well, as I said I'm OK with the current system of selecting countries for the world cup. I don't want to see the 32 best teams, I want to see teams from all over the world. At the end of day, the top level of soccer is the Champion's League. The World Cup can't compete from a quality perspective but it can from a spectacle/passion perspective. I like the variety. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Might I suggest watch the documentary series, History of Football-beautiful game? It's a 12 part series and it'll give you basic grounding on the game. It's on Youtube.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JMO wrote: |
The money is in Europe and in general the best players end up there in the best leagues. For teams outside Europe, you could basically take the Spanish, English, German and Italian leagues, throw in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Russia and so on if you want to ... then count how many players from a country play in those leagues. The best footballing nations will have the most players. This obviously doesn't work so well for European teams as it is no surprise that a ton of Germans play in Germany.
|
Not exactly.
1. Almost all the countries have limits on number of foreign players.
2. Players from England, Spain, Italy, France, Germany demand too much money in salary so smaller nation teams do what is obvious: get Brazilian players, if not then Argentine or Uruguayians. They are keen to get EU passports and will play for cheap.
3. Why Germans play mostly in Germany: Germany used to have the policy of only picking players playing in the Bundesliga. So, if you have asiprations of fussballnationalmannschaft you had to stay in Germany. Secondly, rest of Europe dislike Kraut players intensely. Memories of WW2 runs deep in their psyche, to this day.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Yes they are. They're fair weather fans no matter how you want to slice/contrive it. |
Like I said, they are and they aren't. Emotionally they are fair weather fans. As far as following the team they aren't. That's why I put them as part of a 3rd angle between loyal fans and total fair weathers. They have elements of both.
| Quote: |
As for merchants, there were plenty of news stories about how disappointed they were with sales. Tht includes the chicken shacks and the convenience stores. And there were special sales events at the department stores for example that didn't garner much interest.
|
If those chicken shacks were expecting to do as much business as the last time around, they were delusional. The games were on at like 7 or 4AM on workdays. If they expected big business then they were idiots. Korea could have gone onto the group stage and the sheer timescale and logistics of the situation would have meant that they would have made less.
| Quote: |
| Rather than "thinking," take some time and inform yourself. |
A simple glance at fixture times and common sense would have told you the commercial possibilities this time around were limited. Maybe a few delusional ajummas with dreams of gold thought it would be big, but most people knew that this was a down year. You do realize that those newspapers are just looking for a story. Just because they find one ajumma chicken hof owner who was expecting big things this year doesn't mean that most out there felt that way.
Which is more likely?
A) BBQ Chicken, Kyochon, NeNe, etc. were banking on a big World Cup fiscal quarter with a flood of business at 7AM at their stores
or
B) Korean media and atwood are overhyping the "loss of business" angle to make a story/point. |
I do realize you're just looking for a way to wriggle your way out of incorrect statements.
The Korean media got it all wrong because it disproves what you "thought."
As I said before, become an informed poster.
There's no third kind of fan. You're either a loyal fan or you're not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
