|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Old Painless wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| If it's only the food supply, why is it that active ppl I know are generally much more fit? |
Because the people you know are NOT LAZY. |
People who have a problem which persists usually have an inaccurate view of how reality works. By "people" I'm talking about the human race.
Even this whole concept of laziness could be wrong. It could turn out that eating sugar makes you lazy by preferentially taking calories from energy and depositing them to fat. So it's not a personality defect, it's the society's food supply; societies where sugar is a large % of the available calories (USA) will appear to have lots of lazy people, and the opposite with societies like KR where sugar is a smaller % of calories.
Again, people don't have it figured out, so I begin by assuming everything they believe is wrong. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Fat people may be classified as 'disabled' in the EU |
|
|
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
"It (obesity) should be viewed as the problem that it is." means exactly that. It should NOT be just accepted as the norm... |
It is the norm now though (in countries like the USA).
You have no look at the root of the problem, and no the problem isn't "people just need to eat less and exercise more". The problem is the post-industrial revolution food supply, it causes metabolic syndrome. And obesity is a symptom of that.
Which means you need to regulate the food supply, put McD out of business, hold fast industry food accountable for the externalites they create. Which conflicts with the way Americans think about things; "personal choice" and all that BS (personal choice doesn't actually exist, since the population must eat the aggregate food supply). But the population can't be supported any other way that industrial revolution foods, so it's check mate.
Yawn, it's a boring topic for me, people just don't get it, and they aren't going to get it anytime soon. |
And what you don't seem to be getting here... is that the aggregate food supply is made up of a variety of foods and people do have choices and plenty of them. It's not like McDonalds is the only choice out there. IF IT WAS... then your point above might approach some measure of accuracy.
As for suing McDonalds for their externalities (presumably all the fat people), the first argument they will use is that people DO have choices, even on their own menu they offer. But even if there was only the 1/2 pound McLard Burger Deluxe on the menu, people would still have the choice to eat it or not, and to exercise or not after they did eat it.
Personal choice, personal responsibility. Yes, they do exist, even if much of the US population is ignorant about healthy lifestyle choices and has a high tolerance for being fat.
When I first came to Korea from the US, I actually gained weight from all the rice and noodles that are part of the aggregate food supply here. So I chose to eat less of that stuff and lost the weight. What a concept. I guess I could have tried to blame the Korean food companies but I don't think that would have gotten me very far. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old Painless
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Last time I checked, greens, veggies, and lots of healthy food available at grocery store supermarkets. Yep, there's a Whataburger and a McDonald's out there on the corners outside if you're too lazy to push a basket through the aisle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fat people may be classified as 'disabled' in the EU |
|
|
| Mix1 wrote: |
And what you don't seem to be getting here... is that the aggregate food supply is made up of a variety of foods and people do have choices and plenty of them. It's not like McDonalds is the only choice out there.
|
It always amazes me people can't do basic math.
USA Food Supply by calories
Grains 26%
Sugar 17%
Processed Oil 21%
= 64% metabolic syndrome foods.
http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/FoodSupply/Final_FoodSupplyReport_2006.pdf
100% of the people cannot survive on 36% of the available calories. There are choices for individuals, there is not a choice for the population. The population must eat the aggregate food supply.
What has happened in the USA is the only thing that could possibly happen, and it will continue until the food supply is changed. Use your brain. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Old Painless wrote: |
| Last time I checked, greens, veggies, and lots of healthy food available at grocery store supermarkets. |
Wrong, see above. Vegetables make up 4% of the calories in the American food supply. Humans are not built to subsist on vegetables, and they certainly can not subsist on a 96% calorie deficit.
Use your brain. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Old Painless wrote: |
| Last time I checked, greens, veggies, and lots of healthy food available at grocery store supermarkets. |
Wrong, see above. Vegetables make up 4% of the calories in the American food supply. Humans are not built to subsist on vegetables, and they certainly can not subsist on a 96% calorie deficit.
Use your brain. |
They make up that amount because that is the demand. If people bought more, the supply would compensate. Especially when it comes to fresh foods, there's a very close connection between supply/demand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| Old Painless wrote: |
| Last time I checked, greens, veggies, and lots of healthy food available at grocery store supermarkets. |
Wrong, see above. Vegetables make up 4% of the calories in the American food supply. Humans are not built to subsist on vegetables, and they certainly can not subsist on a 96% calorie deficit.
Use your brain. |
They make up that amount because that is the demand. If people bought more, the supply would compensate. |
Yes, this is the classic response, "the law" of supply/demand.
I do not believe that however. If you study history (as I have) the American food supply DID NOT become so because it was demanded. Govt planners pushed grain growers to go big, and industry added sugar to make the grains stomachable, and they launched a "fat causes heart attacks" propaganda campaign. Americans were eating red meat, lard, butter and eggs...they were pushed onto grains, grain oils, and sugar by the changing supply...and the metabolic syndrome (obesity) epidemic exploded. The population did not demand their current food supply.
Regardless, in the short-term there is no personal choice for the population. The population eats the aggregate food supply. In the long-term people can talk about changing the food-supply, but it is not demand driven, it is supply driven.
Homo sapiens eat what is there. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Regardless, in the short-term there is no personal choice for the population. The population eats the aggregate food supply. In the long-term people can talk about changing the food-supply, but it is not demand driven, it is supply driven.
Homo sapiens eat what is there. |
The French have a traditionally unhealthy diet with lots of dairy products, rich sauces, pastries and the like but they are much less obese. This is because unlike the Brits and Americans they have rejected the culture of continuous snacking and eat normal sized portions when they do have a meal. They also don't binge drink at every opportunity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm not buying the population bit - I'm part of the population and can choose what I put in my body. I choose when shopping... and as such, am not dealing with issues of obesity. If I can make those choices, I believe most of the population can as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Old Painless
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Eat some fish you lard ass. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The individual can choose what they do, but all individuals at once can not. Example...
-------------
Say you have 100 rats in a cage, and each rat requires 1 unit of food. You place 120 units of food in the cage, a surplus. Of those food units -- 36 are healthy rat foods, 84 are unhealthy rat foods.
You and I (if we were rats) would seek out the healthy units of food, and ONLY eat those, while other rats would eat almost entirely unhealthy food.
But the population will still eat 70% unhealthy food if it selects between healthy/unhealthy randomly, and will thus be unhealthy. Even if the population learns that 70% of the food is unhealthy, and attempts to only eat the 30% heathy foods, the best they can do is to eat 64% unhealthy food, since they will not choose to starve, nor to decrease their population.
-------------
This example is the United States. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| The French have a traditionally unhealthy diet... |
I'll stop you right there since you are wrong and have convoluted things.
Butter, heavy cream and wine are not unhealthy which is why the French have historically been thin AND had less heart attacks. Eating fat prompts fullness while eating sugar drives overeating. You can't say a population's diet is unhealthy when the population has historically been healthy. This would be a paradox, and there is no paradox. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox
Several studies here back up my point that the French are less obese because they snack less and eat smaller portions. Of course there are other reasons. The fact that this is called the French paradox is because nobody, including you, knows for sure why the French are thinner so it's fairly pointless bandying terms like 'right' and ' wrong' about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Several studies here back up my point that the French are less obese because they snack less and eat smaller portions. Of course there are other reasons. The fact that this is called the French paradox is because nobody, including you, knows for sure why the French are thinner... |
Nope, I know. And I already told you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox
Several studies here back up my point that the French are less obese because they snack less and eat smaller portions. Of course there are other reasons. The fact that this is called the French paradox is because nobody, including you, knows for sure why the French are thinner so it's fairly pointless bandying terms like 'right' and ' wrong' about. |
I agree that it's not a bad idea to compare the diets of different cultures. However, the French Paradox is about the observation that French people have a relatively low incidence of coronary heart disease, not about them being less obese. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
