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furtakk
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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If you're okay with losing your job, I would just be firm and state that you intend to go regardless of what they say. If they were willing to reimburse you, fine, change the dates. However, that is clearly not the case.
Employers here are finicky, so you probably should have confirmed the dates before booking, but there was an agreement and they should stand by it.
They will be really pissed, but odds are you won't get fired over it. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Bloo wrote: |
| I asked if they would reimburse me. They said "no". |
You gave them a chance at a square deal and they refused it. Have a nice vacation!  |
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Drew345
Joined: 24 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Sometimes leaving a bad position (or at least being prepared to leave) is what opens a door to a better position. I'd tell them "sorry, I am going" and trust things will work out for the best. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Bloo wrote: |
my problem is more with their incompetence level.
They had small problems in the past that I let go, because it seemed they learned slowly from them, and were improving, but this is a huge problem that I can't tolerate. |
Most hogwon managers only see things their own way.
Any employer-boss relationship involves give and take. All they do though is take-take until the relationship breaks down, then they get someone new to exploit.
Its frustrating because they only learn anything the hard way. You absolutely have to force them into a corner, to the edge of the precipice- just to get the basics of what was already agreed on. |
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AsiaESLbound
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Location: Truck Stop Missouri
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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The directors and co-teachers are becoming increasingly nasty over there where it isn't worth teaching English in Korea any longer like it was 5 to 10 years ago. I have the gut feeling they mostly never liked us in the first place, but often showed us fake respect to save face in putting on an image of being, "world class," as a part of what they were told to do by their master of puppets. They mostly stopped the excessive staring two or three years ago, because their government told them to tone it down; it wasn't because they began to like us more. Now, increasingly so, as a foreign employee, you are fare game to be treated worse and tormented with direct hostility, intentional mis-communication for guilt tripping, and even threats.
One never understands just how bad it is until one gets into a bad job situation which can be either a hagwon or public school. I had three great successful years completing three single contracts, but my 4th enlightened me of the side of Korea no one wants to see and know. It can be terrible in any country, but Korea is well known for not being friendly and just downright xenophobic since they mostly never wanted the globalist agenda.
Go on vacation if you can afford to and then set yourself up in another country or find another job in Korea on the ground doing in-person interviews. I have a gut feeling that like anywhere else, if you got a job in person, they would probably treat you far better than a stranger dropping out of sky via an online recruiter. |
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1 week before my vacation and Hagwon suddenly says " |
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[quote="Guajiro"]
| Bloo wrote: |
For my 5 winter days I booked a trip to China. My boss said I could only go for three because the school was only taking three days and all the other teachers would be there (I was the only foreign teacher). I said that my contract says I get a week and I already booked my ticket, so I'm going. He grumbled and said it wasn't fair to the other teachers, but didn't bring it up again.
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The owner of my building where my hagwon shut the building so our school "had to" close (knowing my boss, he just didnt want to upset the Hyeong, probably), so he told me I had two vaca days now and 3 later, and I stood up to him, no way. He ended up taking 2 days of pay (which is probably illegal), but I took the 5 days, like in the contract. I didnt make a stink or threat, I just said, I cant do it, Im going home, and this is what will happen
If these magic vacation days appear again, I may have a stink, but Im ok with a surprise day off, but that's me
One thing I feel is some NETS need to be tougher. It doesnt matter what the boss's say about you, they could say anything, if you have rights, stand up for them. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
| They mostly stopped the excessive staring two or three years ago, because their government told them to tone it down. |
Really? When?
The government told koreans to stop staring at foreigners?
Was it a TV campaign? |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
The directors and co-teachers are becoming increasingly nasty over there where it isn't worth teaching English in Korea any longer like it was 5 to 10 years ago. I have the gut feeling they mostly never liked us in the first place, but often showed us fake respect to save face in putting on an image of being, "world class," as a part of what they were told to do by their master of puppets. They mostly stopped the excessive staring two or three years ago, because their government told them to tone it down; it wasn't because they began to like us more. Now, increasingly so, as a foreign employee, you are fare game to be treated worse and tormented with direct hostility, intentional mis-communication for guilt tripping, and even threats.
One never understands just how bad it is until one gets into a bad job situation which can be either a hagwon or public school. I had three great successful years completing three single contracts, but my 4th enlightened me of the side of Korea no one wants to see and know. It can be terrible in any country, but Korea is well known for not being friendly and just downright xenophobic since they mostly never wanted the globalist agenda.
Go on vacation if you can afford to and then set yourself up in another country or find another job in Korea on the ground doing in-person interviews. I have a gut feeling that like anywhere else, if you got a job in person, they would probably treat you far better than a stranger dropping out of sky via an online recruiter. |
Word. I've never regretted leaving Korea, got a great gig in China, actually on holidays at the moment. Around 8 weeks' vacation - paid - a year.
These days Korea is even more of a cesspool of shockingly few vacation days (standard is 'Vacation includes national holidays' - what a joke), lies and more lies from employers (though I did well with a decent hagwon a few years back but my boss was unusual) and turning the screws tighter and tighter on the foreign teacher. It's not worth it folks, believe it.
Japan's hard to get a job in but the average conversation school (kind of hagwon equivalent) gives at least two weeks' paid vacation still, and sometimes it is at least three weeks. I used to advise people against Japan based on how the English industry has gone down there, too, but at least you can expect better treatment from your employers there unless you work for a dispatch company that sends you to work in the school system. Avoid.
For the OP, during my time in Korea I heard numerous first-hand accounts about native speakers disrespected in their teaching jobs especially from those who went there with achievements under their belts, not one of them was a fresh graduate who had never taught English or worked at a decent full time job. All of them got badly burned by their employers/schools in a number of ways including after they left their jobs lawfully.
For example one renewed her contract again and was into her third year with her school. One of the clauses she had negotiated with her employer before she signed a new contract was to do with her vacation time in winter. This was clearly specified in the contract - both in English and Korean. Same meaning.
She did the right thing, informed her principal when she was taking vacation (which was during the school's vacation time - this was not a hagwon) in writing and her principal agreed she could go on vacation then. It was already written in the contract anyway.
Then suddenly less than a couple of weeks before vacation time when she had already bought her plane ticket and accomodation in another country, she was told she had to cancel it because there was going to be a seminar for native English speaking teachers in Gwangju on one of the days she had already been allowed to take as her vacation outside Korea.
This woman stuck to her guns and politely refused to cancel her vacation although she was given a hard time until the end of her contract by the Korean English teachers. She was not offered a fourth year and I doubt she would have agreed to it.
Further to this, she found as do many native speakers who have worked in Korea, that her old school continued to make trouble over that issue by slagging her off everytime some recruiter or potential employer contacted it to ask about her after she had left the school. She had to put that school on her cv otherwise she would have had a three year gap.
Luckily she found better jobs because as her new employers said, why on earth would she have 3 contracts in a row from that former school if she had been 'uninteresting, 'had no personality', 'didn't care about the students'. And those were the milder assertions from her old school.
It's a fact that ex Korean employers often undermine their old native speaking employees. So in the end it's a liability working in Korea as what is the point when you can't put jobs you did on your cv as your 'referees' knife you?
Documentation demands that go beyond the reaonable, Korean recruiters who lie just about every time they open their deceitful mouths or use a keyboard and do all sorts of f%%%ckery behind applicants' backs, nasty, ungrateful Korean employers and co-workers, rapidly dwindling benefits, increasingly bad conditions, some horrible....and that's not all of it.
If you're not married to a Korean with the contacts and visa conditions that are so much better than an E-2, why encourage such a rotten system? Don't work in Korea. Look elsewhere, it will take time but will be so much better. |
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coratheexplorer
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| AsiaESLbound wrote: |
The directors and co-teachers are becoming increasingly nasty over there where it isn't worth teaching English in Korea any longer like it was 5 to 10 years ago. I have the gut feeling they mostly never liked us in the first place, but often showed us fake respect to save face in putting on an image of being, "world class," as a part of what they were told to do by their master of puppets. They mostly stopped the excessive staring two or three years ago, because their government told them to tone it down; it wasn't because they began to like us more. Now, increasingly so, as a foreign employee, you are fare game to be treated worse and tormented with direct hostility, intentional mis-communication for guilt tripping, and even threats.
One never understands just how bad it is until one gets into a bad job situation which can be either a hagwon or public school. I had three great successful years completing three single contracts, but my 4th enlightened me of the side of Korea no one wants to see and know. It can be terrible in any country, but Korea is well known for not being friendly and just downright xenophobic since they mostly never wanted the globalist agenda.
Go on vacation if you can afford to and then set yourself up in another country or find another job in Korea on the ground doing in-person interviews. I have a gut feeling that like anywhere else, if you got a job in person, they would probably treat you far better than a stranger dropping out of sky via an online recruiter. |
I'm so glad people are finally coming to realizations like this. |
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coratheexplorer
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
These days Korea is even more of a cesspool of shockingly few vacation days (standard is 'Vacation includes national holidays' - what a joke), lies and more lies from employers (though I did well with a decent hagwon a few years back but my boss was unusual) and turning the screws tighter and tighter on the foreign teacher. It's not worth it folks, believe it.
For the OP, during my time in Korea I heard numerous first-hand accounts about native speakers disrespected in their teaching jobs especially from those who went there with achievements under their belts, not one of them was a fresh graduate who had never taught English or worked at a decent full time job. All of them got badly burned by their employers/schools in a number of ways including after they left their jobs lawfully.
...
It's a fact that ex Korean employers often undermine their old native speaking employees. So in the end it's a liability working in Korea as what is the point when you can't put jobs you did on your cv as your 'referees' knife you?
Documentation demands that go beyond the reaonable, Korean recruiters who lie just about every time they open their deceitful mouths or use a keyboard and do all sorts of f%%%ckery behind applicants' backs, nasty, ungrateful Korean employers and co-workers, rapidly dwindling benefits, increasingly bad conditions, some horrible....and that's not all of it.
If you're not married to a Korean with the contacts and visa conditions that are so much better than an E-2, why encourage such a rotten system? Don't work in Korea. Look elsewhere, it will take time but will be so much better. |
Well said. Don't forget about appalling salary offers. I just saw one for 2.0 million for split shifts, no airfare included. I'd bet they don't have any decent curriculum either.
I don't think they are ready to have foreign workers integrated into their places of employment. It's just more than they can handle at this point in their national progress.
As for the backstabbing and sabotage after you leave, it is beyond unprofessional and not to mention dishonest. I was the best thing since sliced bread when they wanted me to stay, compliments to the moon and back during those contract renewal talks, but when I said no I didn't get a drop of that positivity in the form of a reference. Spoken or written. Small thinking, unprofessional, selfish people. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
often showed us fake respect to save face
turning the screws tighter and tighter on the foreign teacher. It's not worth it folks, believe it.
For the OP, during my time in Korea I heard numerous first-hand accounts about native speakers disrespected in their teaching jobs |
The daily battle to keep your dignity has always been the case in Korea.
Over time this creates a savage paranoia, a suspended state of alertness and tension in the foreigner, that Koreans never seem to understand or realize they are the cause of. Ultimately this is not psychologically healthy.
But now with a saturated market in their favour they are dropping even their former flimsy façade of respect. |
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ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| So what happened Bloo? Did you go or not? What was the fallout? Are you back teaching or did the sky fall in the classroom as it self imploded on itself because they could not find a replacement? It would be interesting to find out the end of this story. |
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MedellinHeel
Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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They say that I am not allowed to take more than 3 consecutive business days off. (Which is fine as it's stated in my contract, but why did they not tell me this before when I asked them if those dates were okay?)
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Am I missing something here?
You attempt to get something that is forbidden in your contract and then do not even get it in writing?.
This is your fault bro. |
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drcrazy
Joined: 19 Feb 2003
Location: Pusan. Yes, that's right. Pusan NOT Busan. I ain't never been to no place called Busan
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1 week before my vacation and Hagwon suddenly says " |
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I like ice cream.
Last edited by drcrazy on Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jleblanc
Joined: 23 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| He already stated he didn't know that was the beginning of the semester. They approved it anyway. |
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