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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:15 am Post subject: Re: E-Mart's recent US beef promotion a success |
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| Sister Ray wrote: |
I'm going to go back to my original assertion that your hostility comes from the uncomfortable realisation that your chosen lifestyle has a significant detrimental effect on the planet and the other species who inhabit it.
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Well first off, meat addiction is real. I've seen it with my own eyes. I once had a friend who had to lay off calories and guzzle water and cranberry juice to piss clean. Dude lasted 16 hours before he broke down and went to Wendy's. He didn't touch any drugs for 2 weeks. We even tried to whip up Mac & Cheese and the like. The very act of being denied meat messed with him. I've seen it with people who claim they're going to give up meat for Lent.
Of course some would say, and this might very well be true, that it isn't an addiction at all, but our natural state. No more an "addiction" than wanting to drink water.
However you err when you say "their chosen lifestyle is responsible for the destruction of the planet". That's ridiculous. No one individual does enough to destroy the planet in any meaningful sense. You can't hold people responsible for that. And certainly compared to you there's little difference. You may think you're making a big difference by not eating meat, but you're not. You're trashing the planet almost as much as they are.
The thing that bothers me about crusading vegetarians is that for many of them their belief has never been truly tested. It's one born of modernity, luxury, and cowardice. They've been fortunate enough to be born within the only 70 years of human life where secure supplies of food was not a major concern. And that's just in the first world. In peacetime. You've never had to be hungry and you've never been responsible for growing and harvesting your entire supply of food. You haven't faced "We kill this cow and live through winter or starve to death". There's some exceptions. I knew someone who was a vegetarian but would do thinks like hunt for his dogs and take roadkill and take the hide off the carcass of the animal to make leather. Back of his yard you'd see some deer strung up and him just gutting it. The fact is 9/10 of these vegetarians talk a big game about "using all the animal" but if you handed them a roadkilled deer and a knife they'd run away. And even those that did would find the whole tanning and curing process way to tedious and interfering with their hashtag lifestyle.
It's like people who claim to be pacifists or "I don't care about money". They've never had that truly tested. Their claim is just a bunch of talk. Usually to cover up the fact that they're too afraid or too bad with money to ever be put in such a position as to make a hard choice.
So, if you're one of those people who does put their money where their mouth is, I apologize and more power to you. However if you're just an easy street vegetarian, please, spare us your moralizing. |
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Sister Ray
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:44 am Post subject: Re: E-Mart's recent US beef promotion a success |
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| neilio wrote: |
What should we be doing to feed the billions? |
Do you really think the "billions" are going to eat beef?
If you seriously want to address feeding the global population ( reducing livestock numbers is a pretty good place to start. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:51 am Post subject: Re: E-Mart's recent US beef promotion a success |
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| Sister Ray wrote: |
| neilio wrote: |
What should we be doing to feed the billions? |
Do you really think the "billions" are going to eat beef?
If you seriously want to address feeding the global population ( reducing livestock numbers is a pretty good place to start. |
I have a stomach problem which makes it difficult for me to digest vegetables therefore i need to eat a lot of meat. I tend to eat fish, but red meat helps keep things interesting.
I think you should be less selfish and pompous, and stop telling people you don't even know what to do. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:53 am Post subject: Re: E-Mart's recent US beef promotion a success |
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| Sister Ray wrote: |
| I'm going to go back to my original assertion that your hostility comes from the uncomfortable realisation that your chosen lifestyle has a significant detrimental effect on the planet and the other species who inhabit it. |
What about your species? What if the brain of your descendants devolves to the size of a chimps because of your genius idea? LOL. Silly treehugger. |
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Sister Ray
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:56 am Post subject: Re: E-Mart's recent US beef promotion a success |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| No one individual does enough to destroy the planet in any meaningful sense. You can't hold people responsible for that. |
While I give you credit for not just resorting to a banal personal insult like most posters on this thread this is pretty weak.
We can't hold people responsible for their individual actions?
Of course, I know my not eating meat won't miraculously save the planet. But I am also aware that it does a whole lot more than were I to just give up and say "I'm just one person, I can't do anything."
Furthermore, nobody here has actually addressed my complaint. I never tried to "moralise" and tell people not to eat meat. The closest I came was saying we need to reduce meat consumption per capita. My statement was relating to an advertising campaign to encourage beef consumption. I pointed out given the undeniable harm beef production as on our environment, that this was a totally socially irresponsible thing to do akin to encouraging use of fossil fuels or increased plastic bag consumption. The only counter argument I've heard against my actual claim was "stupid hippie babble."
If anyone has any rational argument as to why a pro-beef advertising campaign is not just dangerous, short sighted greed, I'd love to hear it.Given the responses so far though, I am not holding my breath. |
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Sister Ray
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:03 am Post subject: Re: E-Mart's recent US beef promotion a success |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
I think you should be less selfish and pompous, and stop telling people you don't even know what to do. |
As pointed out in my post above, I haven't told anyone what to do. I criticised an advertising campaign. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:12 am Post subject: Re: E-Mart's recent US beef promotion a success |
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| Sister Ray wrote: |
| We can't hold people responsible for their individual actions? |
Correct.
You have the decrease the 8B population, or at least stop it from hitting 12B to make any material difference. The individual will eat something, and no matter what it will destroy the environment.
| Sister Ray wrote: |
| Only thing I've heard against my actual claim was "stupid hippie babble." |
Listen then, numerous people already told you. See Fox's reply. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| cabeza wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| cabeza wrote: |
The beef industry has a massive impact on the environment.
In terms of tree felling to clear land for grazing, use and pollution of water, release of methane and over all degradation of land. |
Actually most farms where I'm from have been around for one or two hundred years. If anything, there are less farms than before and much of the land has either grown into housing developments but more often than not, it has become forest again. There's no massive forest destruction you speak of. There is Irving cutting down trees, though they do replant them, Only problem is some spraying and not replanting as many species I suppose. But, if anything, I think there's a lot less environmental degradation than there was 100 or even 50 years ago.
Most farmers nowadays want the land taken care of as sick cattle or folks dying from bad beef would shut their industry down. (Though, I'll agree I'd like to see less hormones and other injections used.) Point is man is part of the ecosystem not seperate from it as Greenpeace and these other groups would have you believe. |
Yes. You raise valid points.
I'm not for the total elimination of all cattle farming. But certainly factory farms and other high intensity grazing situations.
The forest destruction I was talking about was more in the developing world, especially South America. |
Perhaps, the South Americans could learn our farming methods and do so in a more environmentally friendly way like we do. We do pollute, but in moderation compared to other places around the world. |
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yodanole
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: La Florida
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| If people would refrain from irresponsible proliferation, eating would not be a problem. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| yodanole wrote: |
| If people would refrain from irresponsible proliferation, eating would not be a problem. |
If only, they can not refrain though. 
The research shows the people proliferating the most, are the low intelligence people. The research specifically shows they are not able to remember to use contraception, and if they do remember are not able to follow the instructions. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| yodanole wrote: |
| If people would refrain from irresponsible proliferation, eating would not be a problem. |
If only, they can not refrain though.
The research shows the people proliferating the most, are the low intelligence people. The research specifically shows they are not able to remember to use contraception, and if they do remember are not able to follow the instructions. |
So, now we know all about how you were brought into this world.  |
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