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Vacations As An English Teacher In Korea - What To Expect?
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radcon

Joined: 23 May 2011

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:01 am Post subject:

schwa wrote:

Its evident & frustrating to most Korean PS teachers (& yes, I know a lot of them) that the majority of epik teachers arent here primarily to teach.

Its about:
1) money
2) travel
3) partying
4) a few other things
5) & somewhere down the list, teaching

Some blame goes to the hiring practices of epik (green is good!) & some goes to recruiters (have an adventure & get paid!).

Some native speaker teachers are great, but others show up to work every monday worn out, download a generic lesson from waygook, go through the motions, & spend their desk time facebooking next weekend's plans.

I'm not accusing the OP of this, but I've seen it many times & it saddens me.

On topic: I really enjoyed Boracay several years ago, it was a nice getaway. Teachers need occasional getaways. But as others suggested, there are many other more compelling & less trodden destinations equally accessible from Incheon.

No sympathy here. Age discrimination, lookism, sexual preferences and just general stupidity in thinking that completely inexperienced 22 year old kids overseas for the first time will make good employees- all of this contributes to a crappy pool of teachers. Korea gets the quality of teachers it hires,period.

northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:34 am Post subject:

SeoulNate wrote:

northway wrote:

What bothers me about this is that it kind of buys into the view that this is some kind of paid study abroad. You know what kind of vacations you get as an English teacher in Korea? Whichever kind you like during your time off, however much time that is and whenever it might be. Boracay? Make sure you check out Bali and Koh Phan Ngan too. With prices being what they are, maybe you can purchase some imagination during your travels.

Pretty much this. I've watched a few of the videos hes posted here and they strike me in the same way. Not to mention the vast majority of NETs in their first year/two are here for one reason: sending money back to their homes to pay for uni loans.

Hey, I can't judge too hard. I was only in Korea for two and a half years, from age 23 to 25. I drank way more than I should have, and often came into work pretty beat. I also had classes that really outperformed their peers, and put in maximum effort in the classroom even when exhausted. Either way, the idea of coming to Korea to get out of Korea, or to exist primarily on islands of foreignness - the local foreigner bar, Itaewon, Hongdae, Mud Fest - seems a real waste. Korea Sparkling may be a load of shit, but you have more to gain by embracing your time there, however long or short, than you do by waiting for your next tropical vacation. If you need the tropics that badly, get yourself a CELTA and teach in Vietnam.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:42 pm Post subject:

Just serious LOLZ at all these posts bemoaning people not caring enough about their jobs and looking forward to vacation. Guess what kids, 95% of people back in your home countries don't really care about their jobs and look forward to their vacations. I know it seems shocking that most people in the world don't actually love their jobs and do them for money instead of some innate dedication to filing papers since everyone on this forum is such an amazing and fantastic teacher. As for Korean PS teachers being upset that so many foreigners just lazily download a lesson and go through the motions, I'll have to remember that the next time my CT is snoring away at the back of the class (if she bothers to show up). And if she thinks I have too much vacation, it's probably because she had time to think about it as she had this whole summer break off while I was here doing camps that I prepared and carried out all on my own. Honestly guys, where is this magical land where everyone cares so deeply about their jobs and vacation is an afterthought, especially for 22 year olds? It certainly isn't anywhere I've been. And before anyone goes on about how we should all be so dedicated to teaching because blah blah blah it's such an important role blah blah blah, just quit it. In Korea we're not real teachers. We're not paid like ones, we're not respected like ones by our employers, the students or society in general, we don't have the power as real teachers, and we don't have the security either. It's like comparing pilots to model plane enthusiasts, saying each one is just as responsible for the lives of hundreds.

le-paul

Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Location: dans la chambre

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:51 pm Post subject:

radcon wrote:

schwa wrote:

I edited it for you[/u]

atwood

Joined: 26 Dec 2009

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

Just serious LOLZ at all these posts bemoaning people not caring enough about their jobs and looking forward to vacation. Guess what kids, 95% of people back in your home countries don't really care about their jobs and look forward to their vacations. I know it seems shocking that most people in the world don't actually love their jobs and do them for money instead of some innate dedication to filing papers since everyone on this forum is such an amazing and fantastic teacher.

As for Korean PS teachers being upset that so many foreigners just lazily download a lesson and go through the motions, I'll have to remember that the next time my CT is snoring away at the back of the class (if she bothers to show up). And if she thinks I have too much vacation, it's probably because she had time to think about it as she had this whole summer break off while I was here doing camps that I prepared and carried out all on my own.

Honestly guys, where is this magical land where everyone cares so deeply about their jobs and vacation is an afterthought, especially for 22 year olds? It certainly isn't anywhere I've been.

And before anyone goes on about how we should all be so dedicated to teaching because blah blah blah it's such an important role blah blah blah, just quit it. In Korea we're not real teachers. We're not paid like ones, we're not respected like ones by our employers, the students or society in general, we don't have the power as real teachers, and we don't have the security either. It's like comparing pilots to model plane enthusiasts, saying each one is just as responsible for the lives of hundreds.

You want serious? Here you go: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-only-take-half-of-their-paid-vacation-2014-04-03

You posted: "It certainly isn't anywhere I've been."

You should visit the U.S. if you ever get the chance. Great place!
Very Happy

northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

Not arguing any of the above, I guess I just feel like there are important things to be learned as an expat, wherever you are, and that you miss out on those things if you don't stop to smell the roses. I also think that going to Boracay is like going to Cancun at this point, maybe worse, and his video only reinforced that point. If you want to make a point about having all of Asia at your fingertips, show me something that doesn't involve riding a gondola to a zip line. I spent nearly two weeks in Boracay, and I can tell you, it's one of the least imaginative places you can possibly go, and it looks like it's only gotten worse since I was there. Being completely serious, Khaosan Road has more to offer at this point. It's the "oh my God, you can go to this amazing place on the other side of the planet and do the same stuff you would do at home only cheaper" that I won't condone. I've had some amazing experiences in Southeast Asia, and I've woken up hungover in beach bungalows enough times to know when I'm wasting my time.

Chaparrastique

Joined: 01 Jan 2014

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject:

schwa wrote:

ISome blame goes to the hiring practices of epik (green is good!) & some goes to recruiters (have an adventure & get paid!).

Some native speaker teachers are great, but others show up to work every monday worn out, download a generic lesson from waygook, go through the motions, & spend their desk time facebooking next weekend's social plans.

I'm not accusing the OP of this, but I've seen it many times & it saddens me. The kids deserve better.

By and large they get the teachers they deserve.

They select for youth, american-ness and aryan appearance.

They eliminate candidates with experience, skill, qualifications or age. Or if by accident they get any, they seek to crush and inhibit them.

Hogwons and (some) govt schools provide only a negative, opressive, exploitative, hostile, unco-operative anti-foreign environment that is de- motivating.

Are koreans even aware that they are largely the cause of their problems? probably not.

Do koreans realize that there is much they could do to fix these problems, simply by taking responsibility for them instead of blaming outside forces/ probably not.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:04 pm Post subject:

northway wrote:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

Fair enough, I was only talking about the responses that seemed to be aghast that people consider vacation time when looking for jobs, or don't take their McHagwon job as seriously as a heart attack.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject:

atwood wrote:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

Well, there's a lot of issues that go into that stat, and I don't see how it contradicts anything I wrote. The US is strange, but I don't think anyone there looks forward to their vacation any less than an ESL teacher in Korea. It's just that they might not get any, be discouraged from using it or may not be able to afford to use it. I doubt those people that don't use all their vacation days are saying, "No, no. I can't leave my job because I love it sooooooo much!" Rather, it's probably, "They just let go 55 people last month, I can't make my mortgage payment and my boss Jim isn't taking a vacation. I'd better not make waves if I want to eat next month!"

Newbie

Joined: 07 Feb 2003

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

I can agree with your general sentiment, but not so much what I've bolded. 10-15 years ago we were paid like real teachers, respected like real teachers, had power like real teachers. But then the boom hit, our numbers swelled, quality went down and that's why we're no longer paid like real teachers, respected like real teachers, etc.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:22 pm Post subject:

Newbie wrote:

I know we're getting off topic now, but I was here 10 years ago and there's no way we were respected or paid more at that time. Sure, since foreigners were rarer and it was still the dying days of the Wild West feeling, we could load up on privates and make much more, but a typical hogwan job was 1.8-2.0 (some of the really good ones were 2.2). Plus shoving 2-3 teachers in one apartment was much more common, as was ignoring the contract and abusing foreign teachers. 10 years ago it was 50/50 if you'd even get paid, and you were considered lucky to get vacation days (it was even more unheard of to get them all together) and most of us considered it found money if we received our severance and ticket at the end. PS wasn't really around yet, and uni gigs weren't making anyone rich, either. As for respect, we were novelty clowns, even just walking around the city. I'd say it's slightly better now in that many adult Koreans have learned we're (somewhat) human, too, and most kids have grown accustomed to us. I have way less people coming up, poking me, touching my hair, screaming random English at me, etc., these days. If anything, I think saying you're a public school teacher today will get you much more respect than saying a hogwan teacher 10 years ago (simply because as I said, there weren't really PS teachers back then).

I just don't agree that with more English teachers, the bar has gone down. 10 years ago, and from talking to people then who were already here a while, it was mostly misfits who goofed off for a year. Now you see actual professional teachers, MA holders, CELTA holders, 40 year olds, married people, etc. There are more people here now, but there are certainly more qualified and stable people as a percentage of those people.

In my opinion, the drop in opinion of foreign teachers, and maybe the drop in our attitude, has come from over a decade of roadblocks. 10-15 years ago Koreans believed that they would achieve English fluency, and native teachers were the way to do it. But after all these years of us being marginalized in the classroom, under and mis-used, propped up as the enemy in the Korean teacher unions, etc., the Korean public has grown weary of our usefulness and we've become cynical of our positions here. Add that to stagnant wages that are routinely exaggerated by certain groups with shrinking benefits, and we have apathetic foreigners in the classroom.

Newbie

Joined: 07 Feb 2003

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:39 am Post subject:

Mr. BlackCat wrote:

We were not paid more 10 years ago, that's right. But compared to Korean teachers, we were paid pretty close to being a "real teacher". They didn't make much more than us.

Some of your numbers seem a bit sketchy. 10 years ago anyone taking a job less than 2 million was a complete idiot, somewhere around 2.2 was common, but you could easily get 2.3.

"Shoving 2-3 teachers in an apartment" was VERY rare. I didn't know anyone in this situation.

"50/50 that you'd even get paid" That's laughable. In my entire time in Korea (2003-2008) I knew 2 teachers who had problems getting paid. But hey, maybe our experiences and those of the people we knew actually were that far off from each other.

"you were considered lucky to get vacation days" Again, never knew anyone with this problem. Yes, did know a lot who couldn't get the days when they wanted them, but they did get their days.

"most of us considered it found money if we received our severance and ticket at the end" Again, completely different from everyone I knew. Never knew anyone who had this problem. Heard the odd story about people getting sacked at 11 months, but never knew anyone this happened to.

Regarding "respect" yes, you're right. We were like novelty clowns to some people. But, prior to my time, so the 90's, respect was there.

I can't argue against you saying "quality hasn't gone down" as I haven't been in the teaching scene since 2008. I can say though, that I saw a significant drop in quality from 2003-2008. Based on what you're saying, sounds like it's getting better.

As for your last paragraph... every time I go to Korea now (yearly) I am always amazed at how much better the English is among the general public, and especially teens. They rarely seem scared, they don't giggle after everything they say, and they just kinda get the language and the fact that foreigners are people too. I say our influence has been HUGELY beneficial in these areas.

talentedcrayon

Joined: 27 Aug 2013
Location: Why do you even care?

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject:

The MODs should take down this post. This guy is clearly trying to set himself up as a recruiter using a content marketing strategy over Youtube to build himself an audience. He posted this video on ESLCAFE to get hits to his website, where he can then build an email list and use that to contact potential teachers. OP - you have to pay for advertising on ESLCAFE.com. Everyone else does, so should you.

northway

Joined: 05 Jul 2010

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:07 pm Post subject:

A recruiter? That seems far fetched.

Mr. BlackCat

Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:58 pm Post subject:

Newbie wrote:

Some of your numbers seem a bit sketchy. 10 years ago anyone taking a job less than 2 million was a complete idiot, somewhere around 2.2 was common, but you could easily get 2.3.

Really? We're talking about newbies here, which I was 10 years ago. I only knew a couple of people making over 2.1, and they were either teaching adults with split shifts or working at Poly 63964 hours a month. I can tell you YBM and other big chain hogwans, which employed a big majority of foreigners, were all 2.0 or below at that point. Not saying my experience is the be all and end all, but in my circle of newbies 2.2+ didn't really start showing up regularly until 2007-ish, with a couple of years experience. And we've been at 2.2 ever since, generally speaking. I'd say you could get 2.2 back then, but it was usually at a small sketchy place where you'd be basically rolling the dice if you'd get paid at all.

Quote:

"Shoving 2-3 teachers in an apartment" was VERY rare. I didn't know anyone in this situation.

I don't know about 'rare'. I would say half the people I knew back then had roommates. We had 10 foreign teachers at my school and all but 2 lived together. Maybe it was Seoul specific, but it certainly wasn't 'rare' for the people I knew and met regularly. It seemed to fizzle out pretty quickly a year or two later, though. But from talking to people who were here from the late 90s, pretty much everyone was sharing a place (or living with their boss) until 2003-ish.

Quote:

"50/50 that you'd even get paid" That's laughable. In my entire time in Korea (2003-2008) I knew 2 teachers who had problems getting paid. But hey, maybe our experiences and those of the people we knew actually were that far off from each other.

"you were considered lucky to get vacation days" Again, never knew anyone with this problem. Yes, did know a lot who couldn't get the days when they wanted them, but they did get their days.

"most of us considered it found money if we received our severance and ticket at the end" Again, completely different from everyone I knew. Never knew anyone who had this problem. Heard the odd story about people getting sacked at 11 months, but never knew anyone this happened to.

Ok, maybe I was exaggerating a bit about 50/50 chance getting paid, but it really wasn't uncommon to be paid late or not get all your money, especially at smaller hogwans. I remember looking for jobs back in 2003, even on here, and basically it was considered a 'good job' if you got paid on time, regardless of anything else. That's what I based my decision on, and I'm glad I did after seeing so many friends here be broke for months and not get their full pay.

As for vacation, I remember my friends at other hogwans being impressed that we got (most) of our vacation days, even though they were random days and never bunched together, and a couple of times used on national holidays because we didn't know any better. Many of my friends back then only got a couple of days here or there if they were lucky. Even to this day hogwans try to screw people over on their vacations (even some public schools!). It's hardly a secret about Korea.

11th month firings is what I meant about the flight ticket and severance. I would hazard a guess that outside my big chain hogwan, less than half the people I knew actually got these things at the end. You could usually fight your way into the flight ticket, but getting that severance was like a lottery because you were out of the country by that time and powerless. It seems like the Labour Board has really stepped up in this regard over the last few years.

But you're right, it would just depend on the circle you ran with at that time. I'm just giving my perspective as a newbie 10 years ago. Obviously I know less newbies now, but I see so many less horror stories these days. Back then I'd say 80% of the posts on here was about an employer stealing a passport, or withholding money, or seriously screwing over the foreigner in some way. It's still sketchy in the hogwan world, but there are more options now. Just different perspectives, I guess.

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