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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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 Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| In defense of the prostitutes, I imagine it's the pimps calling all the shots. They probably micromanage their "merchandise." A few years ago, I either heard or read (maybe even on Dave's) about a foreign guy being confronted in a Korean red light district about his cell phone. I don't remember if he was talking on it or what, but a pimp accused him of videorecording the ladies on his phone and confronted him about it. Apparently, in the red light districts, you're eyeballing all the ladies and the pimps are all eyeballing you. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, most of you guys are looking at this from the perspective of the john and if you were the guy in the car. From that perspective yes, it looks like discrimination.
What you aren't seeing is the girl's perspective- "I can't speak at all with these guys and there are 2 of them". I think you're seriously underestimating the level of apprehension a woman would have in that situation and the amount of physical risk that comes with prostitution.
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No matter how he wants to spin it, the equivalent would be if he went to some white/black/latin hookers the US and the general response was:
"Whoaaa! An Asian! NO NO NO Asians! You're bad for business and if anyone sees us with you they'll never want us again. Plus, we don't want to catch SARS because Asians are dirty and have SARS. Go away!"
Then they put up the air X-sign and slam the door in his face. |
I'm sorry, but where did you get the conclusion that they did it because of race and not because of safety in regards to communication or that they won't understand the etiquette involved.
2 Korean guys in America could pull up in a car and try and get an American girl and if all they did was speak Korean, I can perfectly understand why an American prostitute would not bother. If you can't speak the same language, its really dangerous.
Prostitutes aren't in this job to make you happy and satisfy your notions of equality. They are in this to get paid and not get raped or killed or beaten.
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| I imagine any hooker in the world would be able to let her customer know that the back door is off limits - regardless of language barriers. |
Those things are supposed to be sorted out ahead of time, not while in the act. The reason is that if the girl tries to deny that while they're already engaged, the customer might become aggressive or enraged and that risks things going south really quickly.
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| don't forget, he's also apparently an "expert" in regard to foreigners dealing with Korean hookers, and all the reasons why they might get refused. These "reasons" are put out there to deny any claims of prejudice/racism. Apologism 101. |
Sorry, but it doesn't take an expert to understand that prostitution is an incredibly dangerous job and getting into a random car with two guys who you can't even speak to to go and have paid for sex is dangerous.
It's not because they have white skin, it's because they can't speak the same language. It's because the cues that those girls know to look for to see if the guy might be a potential creeper and the level of caution they have to use are not there.
You do realize that if two Korean-American guy did the same thing and spoke only English, they'd probably get the same reaction, right?
But go ahead and claim racism and ignore the factors regarding personal safety and etiquette.
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| Also, Steelrails has inadvertently implied that a prostitute is more likely to be abused or worse by a foreigner. |
No, that's not the point. The point is that if they can't speak the same language, misunderstandings might occur. Some people might think butt sex is part of the package or something that just costs 5 bucks extra, some countries it might be seriously taboo and require a big fee. If the two people can't speak the same language that can get dangerous.
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| In defense of the prostitutes, I imagine it's the pimps calling all the shots. They probably micromanage their "merchandise." |
At last someone who is kind of grasping the situation and seeing more than just "two white guys in a car=racism". The pimp may have rules about foreigners. He may want to take their money, but the problem is dealing with etiquette issues. The same measures and assurances that exist with his Korean clientele might not be there if its a foreigner. Foreigners in a Mercedes might mean extremely rich or even have diplomatic immunity. If one of his girls gets a black eye he can't exactly go kick down the door and start beating the guys.
I'm sure if the pimp had a girl who spoke some English, he'd send her over. But whatever gang he works for probably sends the girls that can speak English over to places that cater to foreigners or gets them shipped overseas.
You do realize prostitution is under the umbrella of organized crime, right? What you think they take 20 random girls and just toss them out on the street and tell em to make money? You don't think they sort the girls between high-end, low-end, foreigner-friendly, etc.?
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People keep saying I'm trying to be an "expert". I'm not. I've never paid. But in turn I think some people are being willfully ignorant and obstinate. In desperation to prove their point of Korean racism, they've ignored how EXTREMELY dangerous prostitution is. High risks of rape, assault, robbery, drugs, jail time, etc. It is not a pretty business. It's not as simple as just pulling up in a car, handing a girl 20 bucks and you going to some motel and getting to act out your fantasies. There's a lot more going on.
Anyways, a lot of what I've heard comes from comedian Jim Norton, who openly talks about his use of prostitutes and on his advice show talks to callers about hooker etiquette and how to go about things. That and him mentioning a few Vice columns and interviewing hookers.
Bottom line- This isn't just a racism issue, it's a safety issue. Stop looking at it only from your perspective and try and put yourself in the high heels of a prostitute. |
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| A new record in anti-brevity?? |
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r2b2ct
Joined: 14 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm willing to bet that a white or black man who demonstrated complete fluency in Korean would still be turned away quite often. I think Steelrails has some semblance of a point and communication might play some role, but it's blown way out of proportion. |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| How do all these posters that have never "paid for it" know so much about the inner workings of prostitution and pimpology |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, stop. You're embarrassing yourself now. The laughing has stopped and now people are just standing around awkwardly trying to avoid eye contact with you.
To quote the Simpsons, "He's funny, but not 'haha' funny".
By the way, it's exactly insane rantings like your posts here which discredit everything else you ever say on this site, even if they are relevant. It's like that time, maybe a year ago now, where in one thread you were arguing that there is no crime in Korea, while on a different thread at the exact same time you were telling people that any time you see a Korean man hit a woman it's because she's a criminal and deserves it.
It's not that you're inconsistent. It's that you're way, way, way too consistent. People may overuse the term, but you truly are the pure definition of "apologist". |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Would the same thing happen with two Korean-American guys who only spoke English?
In all likelihood yes. Sorry it wasnt racism. It's about communication, etiquette, and safety. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Would the same thing happen with two Korean-American guys who only spoke English?
In all likelihood yes. Sorry it wasnt racism. It's about communication, etiquette, and safety. |
How do you know this? I think this exists only in your head. You really believe that a Korean-speaking foreigner would be welcomed just because he can speak the same language? How much talking are they going to do anyway?
Maybe she wants some pillow talk or looks forward to discussing the state of the economy.
This is a country where racist exclusionary policies operate without rebuke, and Korean men are notoriously funny about foreigners and Korean women.
I agree that the language barrier must be annoying, but how much Korean do you need to negotiate that particular transaction? |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:05 am Post subject: Re: Why are Korean girls so deludedly arrogant and stuck up? |
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| skintboy wrote: |
| I have lived in Korea for 14 months and have noticed that Korean girls are deludedly arrogant and stuck up and rude. |
have you lived in Taiwan? psshaw
Koreans are fine. |
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Nester Noodlemon
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Would the same thing happen with two Korean-American guys who only spoke English?
In all likelihood yes. Sorry it wasnt racism. It's about communication, etiquette, and safety. |
Good point. When I hear the word prostitute, etiquette is always the first thing that comes to mind. |
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Nester Noodlemon
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Savant wrote: |
| I guess we need to add Korean hookers to the list of all things that Steelrails has a detailed and expert knowledge of. Whatever will be next? |
Yes, because getting into a car with a bunch of (quite likely drunk) guys whom don't speak the same language of you to sell them sex is totally not a dangerous situation. I mean every woman out there would tell you that common sense dictates that that is a perfectly safe situation for a hooker.
This isn't "expert knowledge" this is just basic logic. Just because some people didn't consider this possibility and now are having the dawning realization that its quite probably a legitimate reason is no reason to insult me.
I notice that the argument is switching from arguing my point about safety towards insulting me personally. Usually when you stop arguing the point and start making it personal it means you realize that you're losing the argument. |
"(quite likely drunk) guys"
Another brilliant point from the master. Hookers tend to avoid drunks, Korean males included. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Nester Noodlemon wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Would the same thing happen with two Korean-American guys who only spoke English?
In all likelihood yes. Sorry it wasnt racism. It's about communication, etiquette, and safety. |
Good point. When I hear the word prostitute, etiquette is always the first thing that comes to mind. |
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/etiquette-to-sleeping-with-prostitutes
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How do you know this? I think this exists only in your head. You really believe that a Korean-speaking foreigner would be welcomed just because he can speak the same language? How much talking are they going to do anyway?
Maybe she wants some pillow talk or looks forward to discussing the state of the economy.
This is a country where racist exclusionary policies operate without rebuke, and Korean men are notoriously funny about foreigners and Korean women.
I agree that the language barrier must be annoying, but how much Korean do you need to negotiate that particular transaction? |
Its being able to know where the heck she's going as she gets in the car so she can notify her pimp. It's being able to work out a rate and what actions are going down. It's knowing that the client knows the rules and that he's supposed to go take a shower and while he does so, she's not going to jack his wallet.
Is prostitution a dangerous business? Is it dangerous for a prostitute to get in a car with two men and they can't speak each other's language, yes or no?
As I said, the hookers would have the same reaction to two Korean-American dudes in a car speaking English. They're not going to put up with the chance that things could go south, which are increased significantly when neither party can speak to the other. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:46 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Nester Noodlemon wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Would the same thing happen with two Korean-American guys who only spoke English?
In all likelihood yes. Sorry it wasnt racism. It's about communication, etiquette, and safety. |
Good point. When I hear the word prostitute, etiquette is always the first thing that comes to mind. |
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/etiquette-to-sleeping-with-prostitutes
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How do you know this? I think this exists only in your head. You really believe that a Korean-speaking foreigner would be welcomed just because he can speak the same language? How much talking are they going to do anyway?
Maybe she wants some pillow talk or looks forward to discussing the state of the economy.
This is a country where racist exclusionary policies operate without rebuke, and Korean men are notoriously funny about foreigners and Korean women.
I agree that the language barrier must be annoying, but how much Korean do you need to negotiate that particular transaction? |
Its being able to know where the heck she's going as she gets in the car so she can notify her pimp. It's being able to work out a rate and what actions are going down. It's knowing that the client knows the rules and that he's supposed to go take a shower and while he does so, she's not going to jack his wallet.
Is prostitution a dangerous business? Is it dangerous for a prostitute to get in a car with two men and they can't speak each other's language, yes or no?
As I said, the hookers would have the same reaction to two Korean-American dudes in a car speaking English. They're not going to put up with the chance that things could go south, which are increased significantly when neither party can speak to the other. |
Sometimes it is okay to admit when you have been talking shit. People will respect you more for it. I can totally see your point about getting in cars - even if they speak the same language there is still a risk.
So how about a foreigner going to see a pro in a brothel? Same rules apply? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
Sometimes it is okay to admit when you have been talking shit. People will respect you more for it. I can totally see your point about getting in cars - even if they speak the same language there is still a risk.
So how about a foreigner going to see a pro in a brothel? Same rules apply? |
It's all about being able to effectively communicate and not have any big controversy. I mean this IS prostitution we are talking about. It's not like the girl is getting in their cab for a taxi ride or they're paying her to read lines off a newspaper.
This is a job where one of the three principles is an enforcer, usually part of an organized crime ring, and his job is to go and collect money and beat up people who decide to hit prostitutes and make them pay restitution. This is not just some everyday job.
People look down on prostitutes and thus some feel that they are okay to do things like engage in sex acts against their will, not pay them, hit them, etc. This is a nasty, nasty business.
I really think people are being rather ignorant and flippant about the personal security issue at play and the need for an organized criminal enterprise to be able to deal with clientele they can at least somewhat communicate with.
Like I said, if you were selling weed and two Korean guys came up to you trying to buy a bag but couldn't speak any English, would you sell? What if they have totally different concepts as to how much they should be getting? What if they are just going to start waving it around and saying where they got it from? You would just turn down the sale. Better to do that than to get pinched. Anyone with any street sense would know not to do that deal. At the very least, they need to get someone who can vouch for them. Someone who knows the deal and the rules.
We've all known that dude who broke some of the rules the first time he tried to buy a bag. And that was in English! Now imagine that with a language and culture gap.
Similar situation for a hooker getting into a car with two guys she can't speak to. You may want to sell them your finest wares and make them loyal customers, but you don't have the same tools at your disposal. Better to walk away than to risk it.
Brothel is a little different, you are going into their turf. They may have some staff there to walk you through things and whatnot.
Bottom line- This isn't selling lattes. This is prostitution, organized crime, and an extremely dangerous business. The normal rules don't apply. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| I think the real bottom line is that this isn't your average country. Outdated xenophobia and casual racism are still very much part of the Korean psyche. |
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