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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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EastisEast
Joined: 29 May 2014
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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How does one do it?
I can only imagine anyone taking a plane there and asking a jihadi about joining. Wouldn't they behead you on the spot for being a spy or infidel?
Does someone have to vouch for you, or do you swear on the holy book?
Any ideas? |
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
How does one do it?
I can only imagine anyone taking a plane there and asking a jihadi about joining. Wouldn't they behead you on the spot for being a spy or infidel?
Does someone have to vouch for you, or do you swear on the holy book?
Any ideas? |
Anyone remember the poster 'fromtheUK'  |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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| EastisEast wrote: |
How does one do it?
I can only imagine anyone taking a plane there and asking a jihadi about joining. Wouldn't they behead you on the spot for being a spy or infidel?
Does someone have to vouch for you, or do you swear on the holy book?
Any ideas? |
I'm under the impression that contact starts through social media, and if enough interest is shown eventually ends up receiving some sort of training (presumably with a heavily ideological component). Usually a slow process with trust building on both sides I guess.
Also, I'm sure there are criminal background and health checks. The children of the caliphate can't be exposed to the wrong kind of Jihadi, after all. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Suddenly this site got a lot more interesting to the NSA. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Boy if ever there was a thread for the mods to wake up out of their slumber and delete, this would be it.
If ol' Dave isn't careful he might wake up in the morning to an FBI raid and all his money getting RICO'd.
Maybe this is a conspiracy by the folks over at some other esl website to get it shut down.
Oh, and is there a reward for busting members of ISIS? Care to post your name and email? |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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| Fox wrote: |
| presumably with a heavily ideological component). |
basically the operating manual (koran) says to just kill anyone who isn't muslim. As they've been doing for about 1400 years. Then we can all return to the stone age together. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| presumably with a heavily ideological component). |
basically the operating manual (koran) says to just kill anyone who isn't muslim. As they've been doing for about 1400 years. Then we can all return to the stone age together. |
Where did you get that from? Actually the religion is quite tolerant of other faiths - generally speaking. Of course, with the extremists it's a different story. But even with them, it's not the Koran they are getting it from.... |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| presumably with a heavily ideological component). |
basically the operating manual (koran) says to just kill anyone who isn't muslim. As they've been doing for about 1400 years. Then we can all return to the stone age together. |
Where did you get that from? Actually the religion is quite tolerant of other faiths - generally speaking. Of course, with the extremists it's a different story. But even with them, it's not the Koran they are getting it from.... |
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans (infidels) wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); (Sura 9:5)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Sura 47.4)
"Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Sura 48.29) |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Sector7G wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| presumably with a heavily ideological component). |
basically the operating manual (koran) says to just kill anyone who isn't muslim. As they've been doing for about 1400 years. Then we can all return to the stone age together. |
Where did you get that from? Actually the religion is quite tolerant of other faiths - generally speaking. Of course, with the extremists it's a different story. But even with them, it's not the Koran they are getting it from.... |
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans (infidels) wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); (Sura 9:5)
"When you meet the unbelievers in jihad, chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Sura 47.4)
"Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Sura 48.29) |
I had a feeling that you would cherry pick some passages like that - I would suggest that you read the surrounding verses. It only calls for those actions when they are being attacked....
"[2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
[2.192] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressers.
That sure doesn't sound like "Go out and kill anyone who isn't Muslim" to me.
Think about it - there have been both Christian and Jewish communities co-existing in Arab countries and other predominantly Muslim countries for over a thousand years with no problem.
However, I will concede this to you - Isis seems to be something else entirely, a real beast of a group, and no one seems to be safe in their path, including fellow Muslims. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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| Fox wrote: |
Also, I'm sure there are criminal background and health checks. The children of the caliphate can't be exposed to the wrong kind of Jihadi, after all. |
I wonder if the criminal background check has to be Apostilled? |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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Jews and other minorities were not 'co-existing' they were second class citizens and the prophet (pbuh) himself presided over a massacte of Jews.
The Koran, like the Bible, is filled with beauty and horror in equal measure.
That is why they are successful, they can be interpreted in any way you want to suit your interests.
The people who invoke the Koran to do IS style evil are not deluded, they are just interpreting it their way.
There is also the difference that the most important figure in Christianity, besides the guy upstairs, was a feel good beatnik who liked his wine. The prophet (pbuh) was a little more handy with a sword. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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I have no major disagreements with your post, just a minor quibble with this sentence, which should have been broken up into two separate sentences, and not conflated into one.
| aq8knyus wrote: |
Jews and other minorities were not 'co-existing' they were second class citizens and the prophet (pbuh) himself presided over a massacte of Jews.
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While being treated as second class citizens is hardly an ideal situation, it can't really be equated with being massacred.
The second part of the sentence is more complicated, and I actually just learned something about it myself. Yes, he did oversee the incident you are talking about, but apparently few scholars find fault with him for this incident in and of itself, as again, it was part of a war. However, and this is a big however, many that came after the prophet have interpreted this incident as justification for some of their own heinous actions.
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/jihad/ch7.htm |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:39 am Post subject: |
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Back on topic, no doubt that social media does indeed play a big part in recruitment, as Fox suggested. Just this morning they were discussing this on NPR.
In fact, the speaker in the NPR segment said with the increased prevalence of smart phones they can spread their ideology like wildfire.
He said with their smart phones they also do the same types of things that a lot of westerners do, like posting selfies. The strange thing is that while one pic might be them posing with a kitten or something like that, the next may be of a crucifixion or beheading. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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| Sector7G wrote: |
I have no major disagreements with your post, just a minor quibble with this sentence, which should have been broken up into two separate sentences, and not conflated into one.
| aq8knyus wrote: |
Jews and other minorities were not 'co-existing' they were second class citizens and the prophet (pbuh) himself presided over a massacte of Jews.
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While being treated as second class citizens is hardly an ideal situation, it can't really be equated with being massacred.
The second part of the sentence is more complicated, and I actually just learned something about it myself. Yes, he did oversee the incident you are talking about, but apparently few scholars find fault with him for this incident in and of itself, as again, it was part of a war. However, and this is a big however, many that came after the prophet have interpreted this incident as justification for some of their own heinous actions.
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/jihad/ch7.htm |
I have no problem with your post either, except for your use of the word co-exist.
You stated that they co-existed, but I don't think that is accurate.
Co-existence suggests they were chummily rubbing shoulders as equals in a fair society. The truth, however, was that in the times of the prophet (pbuh) and in subsequent Islamic states Jews and other minorities were only tolerated as second-class citizens.
As a result they were seen as less than fully human and more likely to be the victims of massacres.
So you see being a second class citizen was most definitely related to the way in which Jews and other minorities were casually massacred by Muslims throught the period.
Finally, the fact that it is seen as a justifiable act shows another essential difference with Christianity. Though there are plenty of evil and massacres in the Bible, Jesus himself doesn't go around making tough love wartime decisions.
That is why when extremists spout off about how the Koran justifies what they are doing, they are not mistaken and it makes it harder to combat extremism. Whilst an extreme Christian can be outwitted by school child as long they have a half decent grasp of the story of Jesus. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Joining ISIS and the Caliphate |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
1)Co-existence suggests they were chummily rubbing shoulders as equals in a fair society. The truth, however, was that in the times of the prophet (pbuh) and in subsequent Islamic states Jews and other minorities were only tolerated as second-class citizens.
2)As a result they were seen as less than fully human and more likely to be the victims of massacres.
So you see being a second class citizen was most definitely related to the way in which Jews and other minorities were casually massacred by Muslims throught the period.
3)Finally, the fact that it is seen as a justifiable act shows another essential difference with Christianity. Though there are plenty of evil and massacres in the Bible, Jesus himself doesn't go around making tough love wartime decisions.
That is why when extremists spout off about how the Koran justifies what they are doing, they are not mistaken and it makes it harder to combat extremism. Whilst an extreme Christian can be outwitted by school child as long they have a half decent grasp of the story of Jesus. |
Numbered to make it easier to respond to.
1) "Co-exist" does not suggest having to be chums, it means tolerance. People who co-exist don't have to like each other. Believe me, I have had to co-exist with co-teachers I did not like many times. And the "co" part does not necessarily equate to being "equals". Anyway, my larger point was that being treated as "second-class" does not equate to being slaughtered, as you seemed to suggest.
2)What period are you talking about? Not in modern times, right? I tried to find cases where there was a recent wholesale slaughter of non-muslims strictly because they were non-muslims and I could not find one. How far back are you talking??
3)I never compared Islam to Christianity and I don't want to start now. I do agree though that both religions and probably others too have some followers who will twist the sacred words of their holy book to justify their actions. |
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