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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| Savant wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Are you honestly saying that drunk people aren't a problem in society here?? That they don't disturb others are restaurants, or heck, even on the streets?
Come on, man... you can't be that far dug into your argument. |
Unless it's at/outside of a Kalbi/Samgyapsal/Hof place, I can't recall seeing any drunks at any other restaurant I've been at. Neither, do I see many kids at such places. |
The only restaurant you must be going to is Burger King during school hours. |
Why would anyone go anywhere else? It's a delight to be treated like a king.  |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| But AGAIN I reiterate what this thread is about and the restaurants and cafes' problem is children. If you think restaurants should ban drunks, fine. But that's another argument. |
Aw, come on. I was about to post about how restaurants and bars banning smoking is unfair and discrimination, to keep the ball rolling. How is second-hand smoke any different from a drunk bumbling into everyone or a screaming kid running around?
sigh |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Are you honestly saying that drunk people aren't a problem in society here?? That they don't disturb others are restaurants, or heck, even on the streets?
Come on, man... you can't be that far dug into your argument. |
Drunk people are a problem everywhere, not just in Korea. I agree with that.
But I'll bite even though your argument about drunks is off-topic.
Public drunkenness has been a problem in Korea because it was accepted for so long. That acceptance is no longer so prevalent. My guess is that public drunkenness is decreasing.
I say guess because I'm not into the bar scene, I'm not on the streets after midnight normally and the restaurants I frequent, while sometimes noisy and sometimes someone drunk will start an argument about their service or bill, there's no one throwing punches or vomiting on other patrons. And I wonder why anyone with children would be in such places where drunks are a potential problem.
But AGAIN I reiterate what this thread is about and the restaurants and cafes' problem is children. If you think restaurants should ban drunks, fine. But that's another argument. |
I'm not a bar guy either, but as others have mentioned - step into any "typical" Korean restaurant on most nights and you'll see copious amounts of soju and makoli bottles lining the tables.
Drinking is NOT on the decrease here, nor is public drunkeness. I'm not sure where you got that from.
The point is simple - disturbing others while they're enjoying a meal is bad mojo. Smoking, being loud, running around - whatever. There are rules against it - we ban the action.
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| Cave Dweller wrote: |
Never seen a drunk outside of those named places? Holy crap man, open your eyes. Are you that shielded from the outside world?
I see a drunk or seven almost every day when I come home. Outside GS 25, outside chicken places, on the subway, on the bus, etc. |
Exactly my experience as well. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
Are you honestly saying that drunk people aren't a problem in society here?? That they don't disturb others are restaurants, or heck, even on the streets?
Come on, man... you can't be that far dug into your argument. |
Drunk people are a problem everywhere, not just in Korea. I agree with that.
But I'll bite even though your argument about drunks is off-topic.
Public drunkenness has been a problem in Korea because it was accepted for so long. That acceptance is no longer so prevalent. My guess is that public drunkenness is decreasing.
I say guess because I'm not into the bar scene, I'm not on the streets after midnight normally and the restaurants I frequent, while sometimes noisy and sometimes someone drunk will start an argument about their service or bill, there's no one throwing punches or vomiting on other patrons. And I wonder why anyone with children would be in such places where drunks are a potential problem.
But AGAIN I reiterate what this thread is about and the restaurants and cafes' problem is children. If you think restaurants should ban drunks, fine. But that's another argument. |
I'm not a bar guy either, but as others have mentioned - step into any "typical" Korean restaurant on most nights and you'll see copious amounts of soju and makoli bottles lining the tables.
Drinking is NOT on the decrease here, nor is public drunkeness. I'm not sure where you got that from.
The point is simple - disturbing others while they're enjoying a meal is bad mojo. Smoking, being loud, running around - whatever. There are rules against it - we ban the action.
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| Cave Dweller wrote: |
Never seen a drunk outside of those named places? Holy crap man, open your eyes. Are you that shielded from the outside world?
I see a drunk or seven almost every day when I come home. Outside GS 25, outside chicken places, on the subway, on the bus, etc. |
Exactly my experience as well. |
I said it was a guess. But I based it on companies and schools putting some limits on the drinking that goes on at sponsored functions and the pressure the government is putting on such organizations to quell the drinking.
If you're not a bar guy, how do you know drinking is not on the decrease? Just sayin'.
I think that's a bit of a stretch on what a "typical" Korean restaurant is. There are lots and lots of Korean restaurants that either don't serve alcohol at all or where people don't as a matter of course drink with dinner.
As for the final comment, I wonder if the difference between drinking and being drunk is being recognized. One can drink without being the out-of-control drunk that you are using to base your arguments on.
Keep on keepin' on. I enjoy a good derail. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:18 am Post subject: |
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http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2990607
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Public drinking ban necessary
Though sad to admit, Koreans have become notorious for their wild drinking habits. Resorts, public parks and hospital emergency rooms, which must offer safety and peace, often run into mayhem caused by heavy drinkers. With that in mind, forbidding drinking in public places is necessary for health and safety.
According to police statistics, drinking has been directly or indirectly blamed for 37.9 percent of murders, 38.5 percent of rapes and 35.5 percent of domestic violence. Alcohol can cause disorder and violence because it limits brain control over impulsive behavior. The social costs of drinking-related violence are huge.
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http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2987847
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Smoking declines, but boozing up
But the rate of high-risk drinking has increased. High-risk drinking for men is defined as drinking more than seven drinks of alcohol such as soju two times a week or more during the past year. For women, it’s defined as drinking more than five drinks twice a week. Nationwide, the rate of high-risk drinking increased from 16 percent in 2012 to 18.6 percent in 2013.
The rate of high-risk drinking varied nationwide. It was less than the national average in Daegu (14.9 percent), Ulsan (15.6 percent) and Gwangju (16.8 percent), and more in Gyungnam (19.7 percent), Jeju (19.9 percent) and Gangwon (21.5 percent). The poll surveyed health habits of 220,000 South Koreans older than 18 nationwide. It included 258 questions about smoking, drinking, exercise, safety, food, obesity, mental health and health checkups. The survey started six years ago and is conducted annually in 253 cities. An exercise fad seems to have faded over the past few years, and waistlines expanded. |
http://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2983528
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On Friday in Seoul, at the Hongik police station in Mapo District, three police officers were busy handling an overwhelming number of phone calls from civilians, with most of the reports being alcohol related. Nine other officers were out of the office on patrol.
Out of all the police stations nationwide, the Hongik police office received the largest number of reports last year, according to police records.
“We usually receive about 120 reports [per day], and 90 percent of them involve alcohol-related violence,” a police officer said. “We often skip meals because we usually have to handle at least four reports during night duty and go out on patrol.” |
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2014/07/02/2014070202013.html
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Korea is threatening to outdo Russia in its reputation for hard drinking. But the reason many Koreans drink is not so much pleasure as social pressure, especially in a work culture where obedience and conformity still play a vital role. And the pressure is on, not to drink a glass of wine or a few beers, but to match each other shot for shot of hard liquor.
Every Friday night, the streets are full of people lurching from lamppost to lamppost, or whole groups trying to prop each other up as they shamble to the nearest subway station.
Some of these revelers, whether well-dressed white-collar workers or girl students, can be found sitting or lying down right on the street or subway stairs. This may be shocking to first-time visitors to the country, but for Koreans these scenes are the norm in the commercial and entertainment areas of Seoul.
According to WHO statistics, Koreans consume the most alcohol in Asia. Korea's pure alcohol consumption among adults over 15 is 12.3 liters per capita per year. Furthermore, more than twice as much of Korea's most popular alcoholic beverage soju, which takes 97 percent of the market here, is sold than of any other spirit in the world. |
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/06/14/2012061401382.html
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40,000 Motorists 'Habitual Drunk Drivers'
The number of habitual drunk drivers with more than three arrests for driving under the influence is rising. According to the Korea Road Traffic Authority on Tuesday, 39,355 or 15.2 percent of 258,213 motorists who were arrested for drunk driving in 2011 have racked up more than three DUI arrests and had their licenses suspended or revoked.
The proportion has been rising consistently from 10.2 percent in 2007 to 14.6 percent in 2010. Drunk drivers have also caused huge damage. A total of 733 people were killed and 51,135 injured by drunk drivers last year.
"The rise in drunk driving recidivism is proof that many people with cars are still very laid-back about alcohol consumption," said Lee Hae-kuk, a professor at Catholic University of Korea College of Medicine. |
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20140203000773
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Country with world’s heaviest drinkers: Korea
South Korea has the heaviest drinkers in the world, with its people downing 13.7 shots of liquor per week on average, according to a study by market research firm Euromonitor.
Russia followed Korea with 6.3 shots per week. Filipinos drink roughly 5.4 shots per week and Americans consume only 3.3 shots.
The hard alcohol crown can be problematic at times. South Korea’s alarming alcohol consumption has led to outbreaks of drunken violence. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| I know that's a bit of a link dump, but seriously, I'm shocked that anyone would say that drunks/heavy drinking isn't an issue here. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| I know that's a bit of a link dump, but seriously, I'm shocked that anyone would say that drunks/heavy drinking isn't an issue here. |
No one has said that. They've said that's not the issue of this thread. A strawman that weak is downright SRian.
It is good to see that Koreans are more aware of the problems drunks create. I'd say that greater social awareness and a greater willingness to report such problems are behind the increases reported rather than any actual increase in drinking per se. IMO alcohol sales are probably a better indicator of how much people are actually drinking. Are sales up?
But keep the derail up. It really goes to show your fixation with drunks. You should start a temperance league. You could build a church around it, open some shops that don't sell alcohol and before you know it you'd have your own cult. You could use the 12 steps as a basis for your cult's creed.
BTW that article about SK being the world's heaviest drinkers has been discussed before and there was some who pointed out the statistics were a bit out of whack and that Korea was no higher than fourth IIRC. But you know how it goes with statistics. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| This thread is like the f-ing Engergizer Bunny... |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Now that this thread is about drunks (good job, Cap) I gotta say it's a toss up between which is more annoying: drunks or loud children.
Well, we could at least agree to ban loud, drunk, screaming children from restaurants, couldn't we? |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| bump |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:52 am Post subject: |
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lol
We may not see eye to aye all that often, but that...that was well done sir! |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
lol
We may not see eye to aye all that often, but that...that was well done sir! |
I aim to please.  |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
Now that this thread is about drunks (good job, Cap) I gotta say it's a toss up between which is more annoying: drunks or loud children.
Well, we could at least agree to ban loud, drunk, screaming children from restaurants, couldn't we? |
This is basically my point. And one I've been at from the start - I've had more drunk ppl disturb my dining experiences here, than kids. So if this is a discussion about banning kids because of safety, litigation, or disturbing others, than other factors related to that is fair game for comparison.
So again, why not ban the behavior?
| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| I know that's a bit of a link dump, but seriously, I'm shocked that anyone would say that drunks/heavy drinking isn't an issue here. |
No one has said that. They've said that's not the issue of this thread. A strawman that weak is downright SRian. |
Read above. It's exactly related to this discussion. You may not like it, but it's not a straw man in the least. It's more than a fair comparison. |
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Died By Bear
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| What about obese people? Can we ban them from restaurants too? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
Now that this thread is about drunks (good job, Cap) I gotta say it's a toss up between which is more annoying: drunks or loud children.
Well, we could at least agree to ban loud, drunk, screaming children from restaurants, couldn't we? |
This is basically my point. And one I've been at from the start - I've had more drunk ppl disturb my dining experiences here, than kids. So if this is a discussion about banning kids because of safety, litigation, or disturbing others, than other factors related to that is fair game for comparison.
So again, why not ban the behavior?
| atwood wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| I know that's a bit of a link dump, but seriously, I'm shocked that anyone would say that drunks/heavy drinking isn't an issue here. |
No one has said that. They've said that's not the issue of this thread. A strawman that weak is downright SRian. |
Read above. It's exactly related to this discussion. You may not like it, but it's not a straw man in the least. It's more than a fair comparison. |
It's fair game in your opinion. It's fair game because you say so. IMO it's a straw man stemming from, as you admitted, your feelings of being discriminated against as a parent. And your particular feelings, negative, about drinking.
You're like the kid whose mother says he can't have a tattoo and says Tommy has one, why can't I? Adults get to go and sometimes get drunk. Why can't kids go and make a fuss and get hurt and cause accidents and ruin exclusive restaurant diners' meals? That's the gist of your argument.
As for banning the behavior, I'd think the statistics links you posted show how well that DOESN'T work. |
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