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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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 Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| aq8knyus wrote: |
Devo max would be a disaster for English tax payers as it would mean the Scots can run their economy knowing that it would inevitably be the English picking up the tab if something goes wrong. |
How would this be in essence difference than the situation in the United States, wherein the states have a substantial degree of sovereignty, including over their economies? Yes, it means that some states pay each year to essentially "pick up the tab" for other states, but it's hardly the end of the world. Admittedly, I wouldn't exactly be sad about news that Tennessee or Kentucky were suddenly voting to leave the union, but "the price is just too damn high" seems like hyperbole. |
No firm offer has been made yet, however, it seems as though we are talking about Scotland having control over everything except foreign policy and defence.
I don't know enough about the US to know if that is a similar arrangement between the states and federal government. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
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| Keep spouting your shite. Demented tribalist? Xenophobia and biterness? Your assumption that granting the Scottish government more control over its own finances would lead to them over spending and leave the English picking up the tab speaks volumes. Suddenly it's the "English" picking up the tab. What happened to British? What happened to Wales and N. Ireland? And the investment in oil is a drop in the ocean compared to the money the UK government receives from oil revenues. |
You are an angry little fellow aren't you...
This is why I said you were demented, your vile language and attempts at playing the hardman are just strange. Although perhaps unhinged would have been a more accurate description.
As for your 'argument':
1) Economically speaking Wales and NI are the poorest regions in the UK. The burden would fall on the English by and large.
2) Only 1.5% of the UK government revenues comes from oil.
Let me make your argument for you seeing as you are so hopeless.
Oil is important to the UK's balance of payments and they could rise to dangerous levels if Scotland broke away.
| Quote: |
| If anyone here is bitter it is you. You're bitter that the Scottish might actually vote to leave the UK. You would rather they leave the UK than grant them more power over their own finances, because you don't trust them. That is how you perceive the Scots, and that's why any Scottish relatives you have would be ashamed of you. You sound like a UKIP supporting *beep*. |
What's with the 'they'?
If Scotland leaves I will be joining, I am part of the 민족.
Also I have written post after post supporting the EU, so no, I am not a UKIP fan.
Anymore unhinged attacks upon me or can we get back to the issue at hand?
| Quote: |
| I don't hate English people. But when you come on here claiming the Scots aren't to be trusted with their own finances, and that to have a referendum on our own future is "folly" then I'm sure that other posters can see that it's actually you two I dislike. |
You don't hate English people, you just write gleeful posts predicting the collapse of their country...charming.
I never said anything remotely disparaging about the Scots. You made this about nationality and identity because that is all your angry little rants amount to, brother citizen. |
I'm not angry you deluded little troll. Your posts show how you think and what kind of person you are. They show your attitudes towards the Scottish: that they are unable to manage their own finances and are not to be trusted. You didn't even mention the Welsh or the N Irish until I reminded you they exist.
All of your posts on this topic have been deluded, incorrect, and assumptive.
It's all there for people to see.
Don't expect any more replies, I've got better things to do than converse with deluded simpletons like you. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| aq8knyus wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Keep spouting your shite. Demented tribalist? Xenophobia and biterness? Your assumption that granting the Scottish government more control over its own finances would lead to them over spending and leave the English picking up the tab speaks volumes. Suddenly it's the "English" picking up the tab. What happened to British? What happened to Wales and N. Ireland? And the investment in oil is a drop in the ocean compared to the money the UK government receives from oil revenues. |
You are an angry little fellow aren't you...
This is why I said you were demented, your vile language and attempts at playing the hardman are just strange. Although perhaps unhinged would have been a more accurate description.
As for your 'argument':
1) Economically speaking Wales and NI are the poorest regions in the UK. The burden would fall on the English by and large.
2) Only 1.5% of the UK government revenues comes from oil.
Let me make your argument for you seeing as you are so hopeless.
Oil is important to the UK's balance of payments and they could rise to dangerous levels if Scotland broke away.
| Quote: |
| If anyone here is bitter it is you. You're bitter that the Scottish might actually vote to leave the UK. You would rather they leave the UK than grant them more power over their own finances, because you don't trust them. That is how you perceive the Scots, and that's why any Scottish relatives you have would be ashamed of you. You sound like a UKIP supporting *beep*. |
What's with the 'they'?
If Scotland leaves I will be joining, I am part of the 민족.
Also I have written post after post supporting the EU, so no, I am not a UKIP fan.
Anymore unhinged attacks upon me or can we get back to the issue at hand?
| Quote: |
| I don't hate English people. But when you come on here claiming the Scots aren't to be trusted with their own finances, and that to have a referendum on our own future is "folly" then I'm sure that other posters can see that it's actually you two I dislike. |
You don't hate English people, you just write gleeful posts predicting the collapse of their country...charming.
I never said anything remotely disparaging about the Scots. You made this about nationality and identity because that is all your angry little rants amount to, brother citizen. |
I'm not angry you deluded little troll. Your posts show how you think and what kind of person you are. They show your attitudes towards the Scottish: that they are unable to manage their own finances and are not to be trusted. You didn't even mention the Welsh or the N Irish until I reminded you they exist.
All of your posts on this topic have been deluded, incorrect, and assumptive.
It's all there for people to see.
Don't expect any more replies, I've got better things to do than converse with deluded simpletons like you. |
My word, not one single argument advanced or point rebutted.
Just invective against me and you have the nerve to call me a troll.
I even helped you out with that little nugget about the balance of payments and oil. Do I get any thanks.... |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Latest poll shows 'No' camp back in the lead.  |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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Lucas
Joined: 11 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Latest poll shows 'No' camp back in the lead. |
Thanks to all this turmoil I got a great exchange rate the other day when I sent money home. 
I could be wrong, but I think they'll vote no and by a bigger margin than most media outlets are reporting.
Then the exchange rate will turn. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucas wrote: |
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| Latest poll shows 'No' camp back in the lead. |
I could be wrong, but I think they'll vote no and by a bigger margin than most media outlets are reporting. |
I agree. I'm going to call a 55.4% victory for the "No" camp. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| Lucas wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Latest poll shows 'No' camp back in the lead. |
I could be wrong, but I think they'll vote no and by a bigger margin than most media outlets are reporting. |
I agree. I'm going to call a 55.4% victory for the "No" camp. |
I'd agree with there or there about. |
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EastisEast
Joined: 29 May 2014
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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It's going to be a NO because:
The British have too damn much at stake and would NEVER allow anyone to leave the Union. Period.
Think of their prestige, all the history, the money lost, the disruption.
Did you know that 'Democracies' are just the rule by few, with a deluded, distracted, pacified majority?
Rule Britania ! They cant escape. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| EastisEast wrote: |
It's going to be a NO because:
The British have too damn much at stake and would NEVER allow anyone to leave the Union. Period. |
Of course they would allow Scotland to leave the union, dimbulb.
That's why they're having a referendum. Its called democracy. 
What, you think they'll send in the troops if there's a yes vote? |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| EastisEast wrote: |
| It's going to be a NO because: The British have too damn much at stake and would NEVER allow anyone to leave the Union. Period. |
Don't be silly. Southern Ireland left in 1921, and most Brits wish Northern Ireland would leave too. If fact for decades it was the Labour Party's official policy to support a united Ireland outside the UK. Do you think that if Scotland voted to leave they'd not allow it. Really? Britain isn't Russia, and Cameron isn't Putin.
Fail. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:51 am Post subject: |
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The UK to shift more in the direction of federalism?
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"And I can announce today that Lord Smith of Kelvin - who so successfully led Glasgow's Commonwealth Games - has agreed to oversee the process to take forward the devolution commitments with powers over tax, spending and welfare all agreed by November and draft legislation published by January.
"Just as the people of Scotland will have more power over their affairs, so it follows that the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland must have a bigger say over theirs.
"The rights of these voters need to be respected, preserved and enhanced as well.
"It is absolutely right that a new and fair settlement for Scotland should be accompanied by a new and fair settlement that applies to all parts of our United Kingdom.
"In Wales, there are proposals to give the Welsh Government and Assembly more powers.
"And I want Wales to be at the heart of the debate on how to make our United Kingdom work for all our nations.
"In Northern Ireland, we must work to ensure that the devolved institutions function effectively.
"I have long believed that a crucial part missing from this national discussion is England.
"We have heard the voice of Scotland - and now the millions of voices of England must also be heard.
"The question of English votes for English laws - the so-called West Lothian question -requires a decisive answer.
"So, just as Scotland will vote separately in the Scottish Parliament on their issues of tax, spending and welfare so too England, as well as Wales and Northern Ireland, should be able to vote on these issues and all this must take place in tandem with, and at the same pace as, the settlement for Scotland.
"I hope that is going to take place on a cross-party basis. I have asked William Hague to draw up these plans. |
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aq8knyus
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Location: London
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
The UK to shift more in the direction of federalism?
| Quote: |
"And I can announce today that Lord Smith of Kelvin - who so successfully led Glasgow's Commonwealth Games - has agreed to oversee the process to take forward the devolution commitments with powers over tax, spending and welfare all agreed by November and draft legislation published by January.
"Just as the people of Scotland will have more power over their affairs, so it follows that the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland must have a bigger say over theirs.
"The rights of these voters need to be respected, preserved and enhanced as well.
"It is absolutely right that a new and fair settlement for Scotland should be accompanied by a new and fair settlement that applies to all parts of our United Kingdom.
"In Wales, there are proposals to give the Welsh Government and Assembly more powers.
"And I want Wales to be at the heart of the debate on how to make our United Kingdom work for all our nations.
"In Northern Ireland, we must work to ensure that the devolved institutions function effectively.
"I have long believed that a crucial part missing from this national discussion is England.
"We have heard the voice of Scotland - and now the millions of voices of England must also be heard.
"The question of English votes for English laws - the so-called West Lothian question -requires a decisive answer.
"So, just as Scotland will vote separately in the Scottish Parliament on their issues of tax, spending and welfare so too England, as well as Wales and Northern Ireland, should be able to vote on these issues and all this must take place in tandem with, and at the same pace as, the settlement for Scotland.
"I hope that is going to take place on a cross-party basis. I have asked William Hague to draw up these plans. |
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I originally disapproved of the proposals when they came out, but if England can finally get some representation and a revised deal on the Barnett formula + West Lothian question that would be a fantastic result.
Credit to Scotland for being the catalyst for a top to bottom reform of a system on its last legs. If only Labour and the Lib dems can see past their own interests long enough to do what is right, we could be witnessing an historic moment for the English.
Wales should also definitely get greater devolution, they have a safe cultural nationalism. Unless they are suicidal they would never strive for independence, even if Plaid controlled the WA and 'won' Wales at the GE.
NI should do whatever stops a war. |
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EastisEast
Joined: 29 May 2014
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| What, you think they'll send in the troops if there's a yes vote? |
You see my friend, as with colonial empires so with 'Democracies'.
You don't need to get to the stage of using troops, one can manipulate the polls, peoples ideas, or other interests to tip the balance. Most of the methods used would be considered 'illegal' in their society.
Look how the NO vote all of the sudden took a majority turn 'oohhh!'
They can never leave! Ever!
Rule Britania. Prove me wrong. |
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