Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Roman Holiday]

I'm not sure why but I feel uncomfortable when speaking ban-mal, or asked to speak ban-mal, with Korean acquaintances or students. If I know the person well, I mix it up between chondamal and ban mal... and sometimes avoid verbs. If I speak ban-mal I will fall back on polite intonation, which makes the Korean sound strange/ foreign.

I think this has to do with something with manners being institutionalized in the language in Korea. As a previous poster pointed out, our manners are more informally conveyed in intonation, inflection etc. I'd add even semi-unconscious things such as body language, eye contact etc. And of course in language where we speak at more length and less directly when being polite to elders, or people we respect.

I could be wrong here, but I suspect with Korean culture there is more a 'flick the switch' mentality- one is either formal, polite and distant, or chummy, close and intimate. There is no continuum. I suspect their view of public morality is something like this also. It is public not private. When it is out of sight, anything goes, and then architecture is all-important [no flatting!]. We in the west tend to draw a distinction between morality and ethics, where the one is more socially influenced and the other more self-determined. All fun and games.

[le-paul]

[Fox]

I'm not necessarily a big fan of strict hierarchy per se, but I like the Korean honorific system a lot, the way it makes explicit what would otherwise be implicit (but still be expected to be acknowledged and understood). I'm fine with it expressing hierarchy (which is what it has done in the past and still does in the present), and I'm fine with it expressing general social distance (which is what it seems to have partially shifted towards in the present and will probably become its primary function in the future). However the Koreans want to handle it is entirely up to them; I'm the exact opposite of Professor Anthony and his "hostility."

[Steelrails]

Professor Brother Anthony seems to have led a good life worthy of a wikipedia page. But uhm, I am forced to ask whether he himself uses any titles either when speaking to other people or being spoken to. Would he simply refer to His Holiness Franciscus, as "Hey dude". I doubt it. I think he's right that some of it should be changed, but at the same time, its also like saying "sir" or "ma'am". There's certain ways I would NOT speak to elderly people back home.

I wouldn't stand for elementary or HS students calling me "dude" or "man". At the same time if some elderly person calls me "child" or "son" in an affectionate manner, its no skin off my back.

[jcd]

"Koreans do not have a problem distinguishing between "jondaemal" and "banmal" because it comes naturally to them. However, many young Koreans, who have been learning English since childhood, still experience this problem when using the Korean language"

Am I missing something or are they saying that learning English has caused them not to use the formal language?

People in developing or newly developed countries constantly blame there problems on the the "West". .

Nothing else they can think of happened in the last 50 years that could be the cause? And chances are they have always had this issue.

It is plausible that watching English movies that aren't translated well might have had an impact.

[cj1976]

The gist of that article seems more about the almost mandatory age-related deference, than the language itself. Perhaps Koreans are starting to clue into the idea that respect needs to be earned rather than expected.
It could be that Korean men are starting to slowly move away from the neanderthal behaviour of their fathers and grandfathers, towards something more progressive and enlightened.

[atwood]

Until the language opens up, it will be very hard for Koreans to progress beyond the fossilized Confucian hierarchy. The deference to those "senior," whether they deserve it or not, is built in and is extremely hard to avoid.

[Mix1]

Here's how it will play out:

Young: "Get rid of the hierarchy! Why should we respect our elders? Everyone is equal!"

Then they get old... "Hey! How come the young don't respect the elders? We've earned more respect."

You asked for it. Can't have it both ways.

Generally speaking, hierarchy = stability. There are some problems with it if it's too strict, but it shouldn't be forgotten completely.

[atwood]

[Mix1]

[northway]

[Mix1]

[Steelrails]

If respect always had to be earned instead of given away, then it would be okay for your students to disrespect you from day 1 until you earn their respect. That's a terrible way to run things. What is this? Prison? Sure sometimes as a teacher you may have to lay down the law on the spot, but there should be basic respect for new teachers and whatnot.

[northway]

[Mix1]