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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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 Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: three related grammar questions |
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I have three grammar questions that are a bit related. I'd like to know if
the sentences below are both grammatically correct and express the writer's intentions. I'm especially curious about Q2, as if the original sentence is indeed incorrect, I'm wondering if that's something native speakers simply overlook, as the indeed meaning is obvious.
Q1:
(a) Sarah went to the store last Tuesday, but it was closed.
(b) = Sarah went to the store last Tuesday, which was closed.
In the above pair (the sentences need to have the same meaning), is sentence (b) grammatically correct? I think it should be:
Sarah went to the store which was closed last Tuesday.
(but that wouldn't have the same meaning as sentence (a)).
Maybe: Sarah went to the store, which was closed last Tuesday. (?)
Q2:
Lately, I've been coming across a lot of sentences such as:
They climbed the hills wearing nothing but light jackets.
Is that sentence grammatically correct, or should it be rewritten as:
Wearing nothing but light jackets, they climbed the hills. (?)
Q3:
I greeted the woman on the porch, whose face was gloomy.
Is the sentence above grammatically correct?
Thanks a lot for any replies. |
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jleblanc
Joined: 23 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: three related grammar questions |
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| raewon wrote: |
I have three grammar questions that are a bit related. I'd like to know if
the sentences below are both grammatically correct and express the writer's intentions. I'm especially curious about Q2, as if the original sentence is indeed incorrect, I'm wondering if that's something native speakers simply overlook, as the indeed meaning is obvious.
Q1:
(a) Sarah went to the store last Tuesday, but it was closed.
(b) = Sarah went to the store last Tuesday, which was closed.
In the above pair (the sentences need to have the same meaning), is sentence (b) grammatically correct? I think it should be:
Sarah went to the store which was closed last Tuesday.
(but that wouldn't have the same meaning as sentence (a)).
Maybe: Sarah went to the store, which was closed last Tuesday. (?)
Q2:
Lately, I've been coming across a lot of sentences such as:
They climbed the hills wearing nothing but light jackets.
Is that sentence grammatically correct, or should it be rewritten as:
Wearing nothing but light jackets, they climbed the hills. (?)
Q3:
I greeted the woman on the porch, whose face was gloomy.
Is the sentence above grammatically correct?
Thanks a lot for any replies. |
I'm answering these as an editor and based on CMOS rules.
#1 If you're going to use "which" in this particular sentence, it requires a comma before it, so your suggestion would not be correct. Option A is fine as written. They're both independent clauses. If the meaning intended is that Sarah went to the store last Tuesday and that the store was closed, then you're good.
#2 Your suggestion works for this one. The original sentence requires a comma so the hills aren't the ones wearing light jackets. As in, "They climbed the hills, wearing nothing but light jackets." But when speaking, your version is clear.
#3 No. Again, the way this is written is implying the porch had a gloomy face. You want that part to describe the woman. If there is more than one woman and you're trying to point out WHICH woman you greeted (specifically the one with the gloomy face) then you could write, "I greeted the woman whose face was gloomy on the porch." This is an awkward sentence, though. I'd change it to, "On the porch, I greeted the woman whose face was gloomy." Or, "On the porch, I greeted the woman, whose face was gloomy." [Meaning you greeted the woman and her face happened to be gloomy. It's not information we need to know which woman you greeted.] |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you very much for taking the time to post such a detailed reply. It was extremely helpful. I'm glad I was correct with #2, but I swear I see sentences such as that one more and more these days.
Thanks again. |
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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| jleblanc laid it out perfectly. I would suggest the sentence: Last Tuesday, Sarah went to the store, which was closed. |
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jleblanc
Joined: 23 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| raewon wrote: |
Thank you very much for taking the time to post such a detailed reply. It was extremely helpful. I'm glad I was correct with #2, but I swear I see sentences such as that one more and more these days.
Thanks again. |
You're welcome! Yeah, overall these were some awkward sentences. I'm curious as to who is coming up with these examples.
Last edited by jleblanc on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jleblanc
Joined: 23 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Stain wrote: |
| jleblanc laid it out perfectly. I would suggest the sentence: Last Tuesday, Sarah went to the store, which was closed. |
Definitely a clear, concise option. I feel bad for whoever is learning off of some of those examples. Yowza. But then again I see the same in some of my Korean learning.
Last edited by jleblanc on Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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jleblanc wrote:
| Quote: |
| I'm curious as to whom is coming up with these examples. |
I'm not sure. I received those sentences as questions from a Korean friend. I thought they were wrong, but I wanted to be sure before helping him out. I think they are probably from outdated textbooks, although they could be sentences that have been taken directly from the Internet and simply changed a bit. I just Googled "jungle wearing only" and "jungle wearing nothing but" and the results showed a lot of examples similar to "the hills wearing nothing but light jackets". Some of the sentences do indeed have the comma after "jungle" but many do not.
Thanks. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| jleblanc wrote: |
| raewon wrote: |
Thank you very much for taking the time to post such a detailed reply. It was extremely helpful. I'm glad I was correct with #2, but I swear I see sentences such as that one more and more these days.
Thanks again. |
You're welcome! Yeah, overall these were some awkward sentences. I'm curious as to whom is coming up with these examples. |
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jizza
Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:18 am Post subject: |
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all 3 of your questions pertain to the matter of misplaced modifiers.
basically the modifier isn't next to the word it is modifying, which can cause confusion to the reader.
to fix this you basically put the modifier right next to the modified word, or at least restructure the sentence in a way that makes it clear that modifier is modifying the intended word.
This is a pretty strict writing rule though, and even many American students wouldn't bother to write so strictly. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Reading this thread I can't get Animal Crackers (the Marx Bros not the cookie) out of my head. |
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