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Roman Holiday
Joined: 22 Sep 2014
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 Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, right you are. I think we have all came to a consensus then that 'six million tons of trash enter the ocean daily' is wrong. And wrong for the reason that this example refers to a singular mass, and thus must agree with a singular verb. 
I thought it might be helpful to contrast the 'abstract' nature of that example as opposed to the concrete nature of 'six cans'.
Three pages, but we got there in the end. |
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jleblanc
Joined: 23 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Roman Holiday wrote: |
Yes, right you are. I think we have all came to a consensus then that 'six million tons of trash enter the ocean daily' is wrong. And wrong for the reason that this example refers to a singular mass, and thus must agree with a singular verb.
I thought it might be helpful to contrast the 'abstract' nature of that example as opposed to the concrete nature of 'six cans'.
Three pages, but we got there in the end. |
I was actually onboard when she/he posted that information  (it was all broken down quite nicely, but I'd still love it if said poster could tell us where the info came from so it can be used as a reference for the future). Somehow I got sucked into a discussion of my use of the word "style." |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| jleblanc wrote: |
Oh? Did you source your information? I guess I missed that. And I said it was treated differently depending on where you're from, which seems to be the case since we're having this discussion. No where did I, or anyone in this thread for that matter, state the answer was the world's choice or the only one to be had. The poster was given a lot of information in this thread and it is up to the poster to decide what to do with it, not you. You've made your point that you don't agree. At this point, it seems that all you're trying to do is assert your dominance. I get this is Dave's, but some of us just aren't here for that. And don't wink at me. It's condescending. |
Condescending or not...since you apparently use CMOS
Check - CMOS 5.9: Mass nouns followed by a prepositional phrase. (little funny that is)
On a more serious note: For anyone else that might be interested in brushing up on this a bit, as for sources you can check
The Grammar Book - Ch 17 - Partitives, Collective, and Quantifiers
Just a note not to confuse quantities with Quantifiers.
Ch 4 - The Copula and Subject-Verb Agreement
Fractions and percentage take a singular verb inflection when modifying a noncount noun.
ex given in the text - oddly enough
One half of the toxic waste has escaped
The Teachers Grammar of English - Chapter 10 - Determiners
Read the part on partitives
Partitives such as ton of can be used to quantify anything that is appropriately measured by weight.
I know these texts are pretty hardcore grammar but they are pretty good books.
However, here is an online source that has some information...take it for what it is worth.
http://www.occc.edu/comlab/subject_verb_agreement.html
See rule 5 - it uses the word pronoun - think determiner
Rule 5:
The pronouns—some, any, none, all, a lot, and most—may be singular or plural, depending on the meaning of the sentence.
Note: These words are usually followed by a prepositional phrase which indicates whether the subject is singular or plural.
Try this trick: Place your thumb over the pronoun and the preposition and make the noun or pronoun which follows agree with the verb.
In other words, DO NOT IGNORE the prepositional phrase.
and rule 10 is useful on this subject as well
Rule 10:
Time, money, measurement, weight, volume, and fractions are usually singular when the amount is considered a unit.
Well, once again, I hope this is helpful.
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raewon
Joined: 16 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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The Cosmic Hum wrote:
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| On a more serious note: For anyone else that might be interested in brushing up on this a bit, as for sources you can check |
Your reference section was indeed very helpful. Thanks a lot for posting that. I have The Teacher's Grammar of English but since I was strictly looking for "agreement" I didn't check the part that you mentioned. I don't think I have The Grammar Book, so I will have to ask for that for my stocking (not a hint to those reading this ^^).
Thanks. |
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Seon-bee
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: ROK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| The Grammar Book (an ESL/EFL Teacher's Course) by Celce-Murcia and Larsen-Freeman is the one you want. It won't fit in your stocking though. |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| Seon-bee wrote: |
| The Grammar Book (an ESL/EFL Teacher's Course) by Celce-Murcia and Larsen-Freeman is the one you want. It won't fit in your stocking though. |
Thanks! |
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