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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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 Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:04 am Post subject: |
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That would come down to if one has kids or not.
But an F Visa is certainly better than the alternative. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| basic69isokay wrote: |
Not to totally dismiss the dude who's saying everyone should be making more, but you are speaking in Normative terms. Should, could, would
Everyone else is speaking in positive terms. Am, are, is
You clearly got here before 2008 and there's nothing wrong with that. If not, you're earning more than most based on teaching skills or networking. Which is fine. Good job.
But other people shouldn't be getting dissed for how much they make. |
So no one wants to bother realizing their potential?
I'm talking about jobs available right now. Doesn't matter when you got here. If you have an F visa, you've probably been here at least a few years already. The odd person gets married abroad and decides to move here, but most people are here for at least 3 years before they even consider getting married (unless they have an accident). So anyone with an F visa has probably been here since 2010 or earlier.
I'm not dissing him, but I am saying that some people aren't be efficient in their thinking which is what leads to this whole "I can't make more money as an F visa holder" line.
If you stay at a university, which doesn't allow outside jobs, or stay at a 2-10 hagwon which makes it hard to add much else while making terrible pay, yes you won't make a bundle.
Make your schedule more efficient, hit the street a little, and put some effort in to it, and you shouldn't have any problem making that kind of money.
I use shouldn't because I can't guarantee it. I can't go out and make the money for you or hold your hand every step of the way. Obviously there is at least one here who needs that, but he's on his own.
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3.5- 4 mill or over per month is plenty to live on and save for most people I would argue.
If we compare the additional taxes and other bills that we would be paying back in our home countries it is fair to say F Visa holders here can live fairly comfortably generally.
If any have been lucky enough to get into the Jonsei system here then the extra savings that can bring should really add up.
No need to be getting hung up on whether people can make 4/ 5 or 6 million.. |
Actually I'm more hung about about people claiming they had to kill themselves to make that kind of money. Especially if you add a second income in there.
If someone wants to make 3.5 a month and they're happy with that, that's cool, but if someone is indicating they want to make more but claim they can't make more because they'd have to kill themselves to do it, that's just not true.
As we've already seen, most current after school jobs should be offering 3 million a month to an F visa holder. They've got years of experience, stability, and heck probably a Korean to help them negotiate if necessary.
Beyond that, you could do what you want, but 50k/day extra gets you an extra million. That means you need to make 100k/day extra to get to 5 million. There are many many ways to do that, and you could make up some combination of (and things that would all fit around an after school)
1. morning corporate classes
2. morning privates, sometimes you get business people higher up the food chain who can do those, or the odd non-working housewife
3. after work privates
4. part time hagwon work
5. a study room out of your home
6. evening corporate classes
7. internet teaching (some korean companies pay around 25k/hour for that)
Finding a way to get 100k/day average out of one of those methods shouldn't be "hard" and some are reasonably stable. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:35 am Post subject: |
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everyday all the time or certain times? you fix one day another day goes bad. 5 million is be like "whack a mole". You can't get all of them not all the time. Always something would come up that would make doing that all the time over the long term not unrealistic.
One could get that many to say they make that much- in theory. But since not everything would be working well at all times. the actual number would be less not just some of the time but rather a lot of the time.
Last edited by GENO123 on Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:25 am Post subject: |
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@ alongway
Are you presently working in Korea and on an F Visa? If yes to both of these, have you been earning +6.0 million won per month on your own salary for the past 10 consecutive months? |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
@ alongway
Are you presently working in Korea and on an F Visa? If yes to both of these, have you been earning +6.0 million won per month on your own salary for the past 10 consecutive months? |
Over 6? No. Nowhere did I indicate that anyone should be making over 6 by themselves longterm.
I said 5-6 is where you should be aiming which is what I've been making for the last couple years with a decent schedule that isn't hard, difficult or particularly unstable.
If you get particularly lucky with some stable long-term business corporates, you might find yourself regularly making over 6 without a particularly difficult schedule. I've got one F visa friend who gets 5 a month at his business intensives (m-f 9-6) which he has been doing steady for about 1.5 years, and tosses on some other work to regularly get over 6. When they were looking at buying a house, he killed himself for a few months and hit around 9 a month. Evening hagwon blocks and intensive stuff on the weekends, it was brutal on him, but he got an extra 20-25 million out of it. If his body could have kept up, he could have kept doing it. It wasn't a problem with a lack of work or opportunities.
Using an after school program as a base, which there are lots of, there is no reason an F visa holder shouldn't be able to get around 5 million in Seoul if they're not lazy and a reasonably decent teacher. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
@ alongway
Are you presently working in Korea and on an F Visa? If yes to both of these, have you been earning +6.0 million won per month on your own salary for the past 10 consecutive months? |
Over 6? No. Nowhere did I indicate that anyone should be making over 6 by themselves longterm.
I said 5-6 is where you should be aiming which is what I've been making for the last couple years with a decent schedule that isn't hard, difficult or particularly unstable.
If you get particularly lucky with some stable long-term business corporates, you might find yourself regularly making over 6 without a particularly difficult schedule. I've got one F visa friend who gets 5 a month at his business intensives (m-f 9-6) which he has been doing steady for about 1.5 years, and tosses on some other work to regularly get over 6. When they were looking at buying a house, he killed himself for a few months and hit around 9 a month. Evening hagwon blocks and intensive stuff on the weekends, it was brutal on him, but he got an extra 20-25 million out of it. If his body could have kept up, he could have kept doing it. It wasn't a problem with a lack of work or opportunities.
Using an after school program as a base, which there are lots of, there is no reason an F visa holder shouldn't be able to get around 5 million in Seoul if they're not lazy and a reasonably decent teacher. |
Good enough. Thanks for answering the question. I beleive 5 million is doable for the average F visa. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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You know if a hogwon like Pagoda claimed they paid 3.0 million because they pay, severance , airfare housing they would get flamed for it. 2.3 + 200+ 200 +300
So the after school programs that Alongtheway talks about don’t pay really more than a hogwon.
Look below :
Base salary KRW 2.2~2.4 million
Housing Allowance 400,000
*Health Insurance Allowance 200,000*
Severance pay after the completion of 1-year contract
Medical ? That is included in every dumb hogwon even in Pagoda which Alongtheway claims & agrees is a dumb school.
So the number he uses to get to 5 M is a standard that is not used when calculating hogwon salaries. That is number inflating . Why isn’t it.
No one here considers a hogwon to be a great job not even Alongtheway.
*also consider that not every of the afterschool programs pay severance. *
and as I said with extra jobs not everything is going to work out well with all jobs all the time for an extended period of time. It is just true. And when they don’t work out then the conditions are not as alongtheway claims.
So the numbers that Alongtheway puts up don’t add up the way he says they do if one uses the same standard for after school pay that they do for a hogwon,
So use the same standard of pay for after school programs that you do for hogwons. If you do then you then even if you get 2.4 + 100 extra like Alongtheway claims that would get you to 4.4. But actually since not everything is going to work according to plan all the time at your extra jobs it would be less than that.
I would say Alongtheway is guilty of number inflating. Wouldn't be surprised at all if his take home pay is less than 4 M after he pays for housing.And be sure to remember that is in Korean money not US dollars.
Big difference than what is claimed. After looking at the details I wonder if it all wasn't just big talk.
Maybe afterschool programs treat their teachers better than do hogwons, but that is another discussion. |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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What did I tell you? The adults are talking. There is no reason for there to be any noise coming from you. As usual you're laying your spewing your ignorance out of every orifice.
[quote]hogwon[/quote[
Where do you get an O out of this word: 학원 ㅏ is transliterated as A in every context. You can't even get that right on top of everything else. How do you expect us to treat you as anything other than a pathetic child?
| Quote: |
| Medical ? That is included in every dumb hogwon even in Pagoda which Alongtheway claims & agrees is a dumb school. |
Typical contracts include 50% medical. Medical for an individual in Korea, unless you've got a really high salary, expensive apartment, and car, is going to be around 30k. Maybe 50 if you have a kid on your plan with you. That means the school is paying 25k and you're paying 25k. Now, I know you're pretty terrible at math, but even you can see that 200k is well above 50k.
Housing is included in salary because unlike E2 visa holders, F visa holders will never be taking the apartment. They always already have an apartment. So it is clearly part of the salary. We'd never include it in a general pagoda ad, because that's mostly for E2 visa holders and F visa holders have no business being near cheap little hagwons like that as full time employees. The fact that you're so hung up on the place tell us why you're having so much trouble understanding how people make money. Time to upgrade your job son.
Severance was never included in the monthly salaries of any of the monthly wages I listed, the one place claiming it was? As I already mentioned, that's illegal and they'd end up paying severance again in a lump sum at the end of the contract.
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| *also consider that not every of the afterschool programs pay severance. * |
It's illegal not to pay severance. They may say they don't pay severance, but one way or the other at the end of the year, they're paying severance.
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| and as I said with extra jobs not everything is going to work out well with all jobs all the time for an extended period of time. It is just true. |
As you're clearly an incompetent teacher and human being it is no wonder you'd think that's true. I realize that you genuinely believe that is true, but it's not actually true.
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I would say Alongtheway is guilty of number inflating. Wouldn't be surprised at all if his take come is less than 4 M after he pays for housing.
And be sure to consider that is in Korean money not US dollars. |
It's take home, not take come. I'm beginning to wonder if you're even an English speaker. There is truly something odd about the way you write. And no, my take home is 5-6 million every month. We're in Korea, USD are irrelevant. The numbers are more than real. 5/7 are 3 million take home a month, which any competent teacher can receive. It's time to face facts. You're a failure and you don't have anyone to blame but your parents because it's obvious they did something very wrong at this point. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="alongway"]
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What did I tell you? The adults are talking. There is no reason for there to be any noise coming from you. As usual you're laying your spewing your ignorance out of every orifice.
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you mean the exaggerator is talking
[quote]hogwon[/quote[
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| Where do you get an O out of this word: 학원 ㅏ is transliterated as A in every context. You can't even get that right on top of everything else. How do you expect us to treat you as anything other than a pathetic child? |
that is the best you can do ?
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Typical contracts include 50% medical. Medical for an individual in Korea, unless you've got a really high salary, expensive apartment, and car, is going to be around 30k. Maybe 50 if you have a kid on your plan with you. That means the school is paying 25k and you're paying 25k. Now, I know you're pretty terrible at math, but even you can see that 200k is well above 50k. |
A lot of people pay more than 50 medical
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| Housing is included in salary because unlike E2 visa holders, F visa holders will never be taking the apartment. They always already have an apartment. So it is clearly part of the salary. We'd never include it in a general pagoda ad, because that's mostly for E2 visa holders and F visa holders have no business being near cheap little hagwons like that as full time employees. The fact that you're so hung up on the place tell us why you're having so much trouble understanding how people make money. Time to upgrade your job son. |
So in other words you are using one standard of pay for hogwons and another for after school.
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| Severance was never included in the monthly salaries of any of the monthly wages I listed, the one place claiming it was? As I already mentioned, that's illegal and they'd end up paying severance again in a lump sum at the end of the contract It's illegal not to pay severance. They may say they don't pay severance, but one way or the other at the end of the year, they're paying severance . |
still another problem that someone would have to deal with
.
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As you're clearly an incompetent teacher and human being it is no wonder you'd think that's true. I realize that you genuinely believe that is true, but it's not actually true. |
A dumb response to saying not everything is going to work out
FACT Alongtheway used a standard different standard for his numbers than in used for hogwons. Whether or not a I am a competent teacher or not you are still an exaggerator |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| that is the best you can do ? |
No. See the rest of the post where your other flights of fantasy are discussed. You say that at the end, when someone hasn't proven their point, not at the beginning before they get started and then end up making you look stupid. You can't even get comebacks right.
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A lot of people pay more than 50 medical |
Even if you're paying for your entire family (if your spouse isn't working) a family of 3 in a decent apartment in Seoul only pays 100k a month. The school would pay 50, and you'd pay 50.
200k is still well above 100k. We get it, math is not your strong suit. We're still wondering what is.
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| So in other words you are using one standard of pay for hogwons and another for after school. |
There is not a facepalm emoticon big enough.
Of course you are. They're two different jobs, one is useless to an F visa holder, one is not. Hagwons are typically 2-10 which makes it hard to add much more than some business morning classes, maybe a kindy if you find one. They typically pay 2.1-2.3 with 300-400k housing. They do not pay medical separately (which was only 1 out of the 7 jobs listed, so it's not even remotely representative anyway but you'll cling to it because OMG discrepency!!!) A hagwon is looking at 2.6-2.7 max. For longer hours. This is the reason F visa holders shouldn't work at hagwons. Stop working at a hagwon and broaden your horizon. It's not wonder you can't make any more.
Your after school should be around 3 with a better placed schedule so that you can add other things more easily to make more money.
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| still another problem that someone would have to deal with |
And? You think you're just going to walk out the door and someone will hand you money? You realize life is about dealing with problems right? and once again, not all the ads said that. If the place you go says that, go next door and get a better contract.
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| FACT Alongtheway used a standard different standard for his numbers than in used for hogwons. Whether or not a I am a competent teacher or not you are still an exaggerator |
Again, are you an English speaker? Because It's really getting painfully obvious that you're not. Let me guess, someone who wasn't an English speaker and married a Korean and now you can't make the big money you were hoping?
and there is no whether or not. There is no way you are. Hagwons pay less and have longer hours than after schools. No one is talking about them and no one should be working at them. I have no idea why you even care about them. They're completely irrelevant to the discussion.
When you've matured, and you can form a coherent point, get back to us. |
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| No. See the rest of the post where your other flights of fantasy are discussed. You say that at the end, when someone hasn't proven their point, not at the beginning before they get started and then end up making you look stupid. You can't even get comebacks right. |
And you puffed. You exaggerated . I think you used to the most advantageous numbers you could to make yourself look better than you actually are.
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| Even if you're paying for your entire family (if your spouse isn't working) a family of 3 in a decent apartment in Seoul only pays 100k a month. The school would pay 50, and you'd pay 50. |
you are wrong I have friends that pay more. I wish there was someway for me to show the pay slip. Anyway it there is no reason to add it to the base
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| 200k is still well above 100k. We get it, math is not your strong suit. We're still wondering what is. |
Again it should not be added in . Even then if the expense is 100 then the what they are giving you is 100 not 200. Fact is it ought not be added in.
Why ought it be otherwise?
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| There is not a facepalm emoticon big enough. |
and you used a different standard for one than the other.
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| Of course you are. They're two different jobs, one is useless to an F visa holder, one is not. Hagwons are typically 2-10 which makes it hard to add much more than some business morning classes, maybe a kindy if you find one. They typically pay 2.1-2.3 with 300-400k housing. They do not pay medical separately (which was only 1 out of the 7 jobs listed, so it's not even remotely representative anyway but you'll cling to it because OMG discrepency!!!) A hagwon is looking at 2.6-2.7 max. For longer hours. This is the reason F visa holders shouldn't work at hagwons. Stop working at a hagwon and broaden your horizon. It's not wonder you can't make any more. |
There ought to be one scale of pay for all jobs. As I said if I hogwon claimed to pay 3.0 because they pay air fare , medical and housing they would get flamed for it.
"They are two different jobs" That is an excuse , that is a cop out.
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| Your after school should be around 3 with a better placed schedule so that you can add other things more easily to make more money. |
use one standard for all. If you do then the numbers you claim turn out different.
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| And? You think you're just going to walk out the door and someone will hand you money? You realize life is about dealing with problems right? and once again, not all the ads said that. If the place you go says that, go next door and get a better contract. |
That doesn't change that fact that problems almost certainly arise. and It really doesn't make any sense for you to fault someone for calculating them or making an allowance for them.
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| Again, are you an English speaker? Because It's really getting painfully obvious that you're not. Let me guess, someone who wasn't an English speaker and married a Korean and now you can't make the big money you were hoping? |
Blah Blah. Nothing you said changes the fact that you used one standard for hogwons and one for other jobs. Nor does it change that it is kind of strange for you to fault anyone for making an allowance for the fact the problems arise in a job when they calculate. I put a value on it. Why ought one not? You always use the best case numbers when you calculate not the most realistic numbers.
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| and there is no whether or not. There is no way you are. Hagwons pay less and have longer hours than after schools. No one is talking about them and no one should be working at them. I have no idea why you even care about them. They're completely irrelevant to the discussion. |
No there is a standard set of numbers when people talk about esl jobs . No one ought to be able to use a different standard to make things look better than they are. Use the most realistic numbers , not puffed up numbers.
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| When you've matured, and you can form a coherent point, get back to us |
That doesn't change the fact that two different sets of numbers were used . Probably to make things look better than they actually are. It doesn't change the fact that you have a quirky problem with someone making an allowance for when things don't turn out well . Business do that sort of thing all the time when they put a value on something.
Last edited by GENO123 on Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="alongway"]What did I tell you? The adults are talking. There is no reason for there to be any noise coming from you. As usual you're laying your spewing your ignorance out of every orifice.
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hogwon[/quote[
Where do you get an O out of this word: 학원 ㅏ is transliterated as A in every context. You can't even get that right on top of everything else. How do you expect us to treat you as anything other than a pathetic child?
| Quote: |
| Medical ? That is included in every dumb hogwon even in Pagoda which Alongtheway claims & agrees is a dumb school. |
Typical contracts include 50% medical. Medical for an individual in Korea, unless you've got a really high salary, expensive apartment, and car, is going to be around 30k. Maybe 50 if you have a kid on your plan with you. That means the school is paying 25k and you're paying 25k. Now, I know you're pretty terrible at math, but even you can see that 200k is well above 50k.
Housing is included in salary because unlike E2 visa holders, F visa holders will never be taking the apartment. They always already have an apartment. So it is clearly part of the salary. We'd never include it in a general pagoda ad, because that's mostly for E2 visa holders and F visa holders have no business being near cheap little hagwons like that as full time employees. The fact that you're so hung up on the place tell us why you're having so much trouble understanding how people make money. Time to upgrade your job son.
Severance was never included in the monthly salaries of any of the monthly wages I listed, the one place claiming it was? As I already mentioned, that's illegal and they'd end up paying severance again in a lump sum at the end of the contract.
| Quote: |
| *also consider that not every of the afterschool programs pay severance. * |
It's illegal not to pay severance. They may say they don't pay severance, but one way or the other at the end of the year, they're paying severance.
| Quote: |
| and as I said with extra jobs not everything is going to work out well with all jobs all the time for an extended period of time. It is just true. |
As you're clearly an incompetent teacher and human being it is no wonder you'd think that's true. I realize that you genuinely believe that is true, but it's not actually true.
| Quote: |
I would say Alongtheway is guilty of number inflating. Wouldn't be surprised at all if his take come is less than 4 M after he pays for housing.
And be sure to consider that is in Korean money not US dollars. |
It's take home, not take come. I'm beginning to wonder if you're even an English speaker. There is truly something odd about the way you write. And no, my take home is 5-6 million every month. We're in Korea, USD are irrelevant. The numbers are more than real. 5/7 are 3 million take home a month, which any competent teacher can receive. It's time to face facts. You're a failure and you don't have anyone to blame but your parents because it's obvious they did something very wrong at this point. |
I pay five times that for medical without any children.
Medical is a percentage of your salary. How do you pay so little? |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
I pay five times that for medical without any children.
Medical is a percentage of your salary. How do you pay so little? |
Actually medical is related to all your assets. Salary only plays a small role. value of residence, owning a car, and other things like that also affect how much you pay. So your spouses salary (if you have one) affects that, if you're living in a very expensive apartment (regardless of what you pay for it), or if you have an expensive car on the books. That will all drive your price up |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| alongway wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
I pay five times that for medical without any children.
Medical is a percentage of your salary. How do you pay so little? |
Actually medical is related to all your assets. Salary only plays a small role. value of residence, owning a car, and other things like that also affect how much you pay. So your spouses salary (if you have one) affects that, if you're living in a very expensive apartment (regardless of what you pay for it), or if you have an expensive car on the books. That will all drive your price up |
Considering how easy it is for the rich to hide their assets, I guess that makes the insurance fee just another thing to b^&*ch about here. 
But wait, you're banking the big won and you have no assets? What am I missing? |
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Chaucer
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:34 am Post subject: Alongway |
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Alongway,
You forgot editing, which can really add up. I'm working on a dictionary for my university, for which they're adding 1.5 million to my December salary. The uni also has a proofreading center, which can add anywhere up to 4 million a month extra, depending on whether I accept papers with a quicker turnaround.
I haven't made less than 8 million a month since I got my F-5. (And I'm bracing myself for the attack from you know who, don't worry, he's called me a liar before--I think I was laughing all the way to the bank when I read his post). |
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