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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Those kids who speak decent English at the middle school level don't do so because of solid pubic school English training from grade 3 onward. They do so because of hakwon and kindergarden exposure from an early age. I repeadetly said they need to have a curriculum for English extra classes in Kindergarden, and grade one to grade 4. Have a native speaker and a good solid curriculum based on games, songs, etc. Until they do this, there will always be a niche for the hakwon industry and the government will never shut it down. If they do, the rich will benefit by sending their kids overseas while the ordinary population falls well behind. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Was this part of the article necessary?: (>_<)
Excessive English education in Korea has also raised questions of teachers' qualifications. Very few arrive with a license or teaching experience, and private English institutes have a thin screening process. Stories of an ex-convict or a drug dealer found teaching at these private institutes shows the dubious screening methods. |
So then change the screening methods, Korea!
Stop selecting people based only on youth and looks.
Instead make qualifications and experience an E2 requirement.
Its utterly stupid the way korea keeps selecting only the least qualified people ...then complaining they are unqualified. Duh! |
You'd have thought that recruiters would be the ones getting targeted and criticized on this. It is, after all, they who make job advertisements announcing, "No experience required! Pay off your student loans! Teach and travel! Degree in any subject! Have an adventure!" But then they are only going on guidelines that are created, ultimately, by the government. It's a shame that the Korean media doesn't usually see fit to report on this. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Was this part of the article necessary?: (>_<)
Excessive English education in Korea has also raised questions of teachers' qualifications. Very few arrive with a license or teaching experience, and private English institutes have a thin screening process. Stories of an ex-convict or a drug dealer found teaching at these private institutes shows the dubious screening methods. |
So then change the screening methods, Korea!
Stop selecting people based only on youth and looks.
Instead make qualifications and experience an E2 requirement.
Its utterly stupid the way korea keeps selecting only the least qualified people ...then complaining they are unqualified. Duh! |
What kind of qualifications are required to teach in a kindergarten?
The problem is money. The beginning pay for a teacher in the U.S. is $36,000 plus full benefits. Hagwons can't match that.
I wonder if making the tests easier will help. The top universities are still going to admit the same number of new students. An easier test would seem to create a requirement for a higher score. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| they are only going on guidelines that are created, ultimately, by the government.. |
The government needs to step in - because all that is happening, on a nationwide scale, is that ajoshi principals are selecting nubile blonde females to pander to their oversensitive egos. They're treating the education system like a nightclub.
Sorry but people with qualifications and experience deserve to have jobs ahead of 20 year old cheerleaders. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| This is a very bad idea. The younger the students are the more likely they are to benefit from having a native speaker as a teacher. Younger students are more likely to be able to learn to accurately mimic the pronunciation of their teacher and hear new sounds clearly such as "th". |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| the rich will benefit by sending their kids overseas while the ordinary population falls well behind. |
Fall behind in what? English?
Knowing English, or the lack of, doesn't determine a Korean's economic success. Many Koreans live quite well without much knowledge in English.
Don't get me wrong, English can be useful, but it isn't some magic bullet up the economic ladder. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| the rich will benefit by sending their kids overseas while the ordinary population falls well behind. |
Fall behind in what? English?
Knowing English, or the lack of, doesn't determine a Korean's economic success. Many Koreans live quite well without much knowledge in English.
Don't get me wrong, English can be useful, but it isn't some magic bullet up the economic ladder. |
Knowing English has a big impact on many Korean's economic success. High scores in grade school determines which big name universities they attend. Attending high ranking universities leads to big salary jobs.
I currently teach 5 adult students who rely on their English skills to maintain their jobs. They travel internationally several times each year, they negotiate and do business presentations and transactions in English. 3 of the students are required to be proficient/fluent in English for employment in their companies. 2 of the adults are Koreans employed by a large Western company.
While many Koreans may live quite well without English, many rely on their English ability as a key component for success.
Apparently, you aren't dealing with a lot of the Korean business men that I work with. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
Was this part of the article necessary?: (>_<)
Excessive English education in Korea has also raised questions of teachers' qualifications. Very few arrive with a license or teaching experience, and private English institutes have a thin screening process. Stories of an ex-convict or a drug dealer found teaching at these private institutes shows the dubious screening methods. |
So then change the screening methods, Korea!
Stop selecting people based only on youth and looks.
Instead make qualifications and experience an E2 requirement.
Its utterly stupid the way korea keeps selecting only the least qualified people ...then complaining they are unqualified. Duh! |
You'd have thought that recruiters would be the ones getting targeted and criticized on this. It is, after all, they who make job advertisements announcing, "No experience required! Pay off your student loans! Teach and travel! Degree in any subject! Have an adventure!" But then they are only going on guidelines that are created, ultimately, by the government. It's a shame that the Korean media doesn't usually see fit to report on this. |
Especially true of the hagwon kindy jobs that are at the bottom of the ladder. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| The problem is money. The beginning pay for a teacher in the U.S. is $36,000 plus full benefits. Hagwons can't match that. |
Bingo. When you pay the salary I make, I'm the teacher you get. I wish I could earn the kind of money the teachers in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait earn, but those teachers have qualifications I don't have. Those teachers go to the Arabian Peninsula to work because the Gulf Arabs are willing to pay whatever it takes to get qualified teachers. Korea gets what's left over: me.  |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| The problem is money. The beginning pay for a teacher in the U.S. is $36,000 plus full benefits. Hagwons can't match that. |
This is only true in about 20 states. Minnesota is about 20k. A 2.2 +Housing Job is 30k a year plus Pension & a partial Health. This is better than a teacher in most of the U.S. In addition depending on the State. Minnesota being my example because it is the one I know and is suitably terrible.(It probably is one of the 5 worst so don't take my statements to mean most States) Teachers are regularly let go after 2 years minus a day before they get tenure, placed on the pay scale, and full benefits. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| wooden nickels wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| the rich will benefit by sending their kids overseas while the ordinary population falls well behind. |
Fall behind in what? English?
Knowing English, or the lack of, doesn't determine a Korean's economic success. Many Koreans live quite well without much knowledge in English.
Don't get me wrong, English can be useful, but it isn't some magic bullet up the economic ladder. |
Knowing English has a big impact on many Korean's economic success. High scores in grade school determines which big name universities they attend. Attending high ranking universities leads to big salary jobs.
I currently teach 5 adult students who rely on their English skills to maintain their jobs. They travel internationally several times each year, they negotiate and do business presentations and transactions in English. 3 of the students are required to be proficient/fluent in English for employment in their companies. 2 of the adults are Koreans employed by a large Western company.
While many Koreans may live quite well without English, many rely on their English ability as a key component for success.
Apparently, you aren't dealing with a lot of the Korean business men that I work with. |
Yes, many do use English in their work, but most don't.
While I do agree it is very useful, but it isn't necessary for most Koreans. And statements akin to "ordinary Koreans will fall behind without English" just isn't true. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
I'd guess they mean they will ban kindergartens from sponsoring E2 visa workers?
If a foreigner has an F2/f6/f5 visa they have the right to work any where. So I don't see how a foreigner with that visa could be banned from working in a kindergarten. And if they can be banned, that's troubling. |
F2/F6/F5 visa holders don't have the right to work any where. I have several Korean friends who own small academies where I am not legally allowed to work. If they ban E2s, the will probably ban all foreign visa holders, after all the idea is to get the native speakers out and drive down the price of the tuition and ultimately put a strangle hold on the Kindergartens.
I wouldn't be surprised if these English Emersion Kindergartens are banned from hiring foreign teachers. Then, there goes the business. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| wooden nickels wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| the rich will benefit by sending their kids overseas while the ordinary population falls well behind. |
Fall behind in what? English?
Knowing English, or the lack of, doesn't determine a Korean's economic success. Many Koreans live quite well without much knowledge in English.
Don't get me wrong, English can be useful, but it isn't some magic bullet up the economic ladder. |
Knowing English has a big impact on many Korean's economic success. High scores in grade school determines which big name universities they attend. Attending high ranking universities leads to big salary jobs.
I currently teach 5 adult students who rely on their English skills to maintain their jobs. They travel internationally several times each year, they negotiate and do business presentations and transactions in English. 3 of the students are required to be proficient/fluent in English for employment in their companies. 2 of the adults are Koreans employed by a large Western company.
While many Koreans may live quite well without English, many rely on their English ability as a key component for success.
Apparently, you aren't dealing with a lot of the Korean business men that I work with. |
Yes, many do use English in their work, but most don't.
While I do agree it is very useful, but it isn't necessary for most Koreans. And statements akin to "ordinary Koreans will fall behind without English" just isn't true. |
Yep. Except for progressing through tests and a few international business people, and jobs that ask for English such as KTX workers and Social Service Exams and such, and students who want to do work studies or go into the medical profession, it doesn't make or break most Koreans. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| The problem is money. The beginning pay for a teacher in the U.S. is $36,000 plus full benefits. Hagwons can't match that. |
Hagwons already match that. 2.1-2.2 million with a paid apartment, pension, and severance amounts to significantly better pay package than $36,000 in the States. Add in the fact that unless you're in one of just a few cities in the States you really need to have a car, a significant added expense, and you come out way ahead in Korea, at least in terms of money (though not necessarily in terms of career progression). I make significantly more than that $36,000 now in the States, and not in an expensive area, but I had a lot more freedom to spend whatever I pleased and still come out ahead there than I do here. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Coltronator wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| The problem is money. The beginning pay for a teacher in the U.S. is $36,000 plus full benefits. Hagwons can't match that. |
This is only true in about 20 states. Minnesota is about 20k. A 2.2 +Housing Job is 30k a year plus Pension & a partial Health. This is better than a teacher in most of the U.S. In addition depending on the State. Minnesota being my example because it is the one I know and is suitably terrible.(It probably is one of the 5 worst so don't take my statements to mean most States) Teachers are regularly let go after 2 years minus a day before they get tenure, placed on the pay scale, and full benefits. |
No, that's for the US as a whole. The average for Minnesota is $34,000.
http://www.nea.org/home/2011-2012-average-starting-teacher-salary.html
No, teachers are not regularly let go after two years. Schools have to show cause.
Either you're making excuses for why you teach in a hagwon or you're unqualified to do much else. |
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