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W.T.Carl
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| If anybody thinks that the Republicans will do anything to help Obama's legacy, you are either Canadians or smoking something that will get you arrested in many countries and almost all states. And what "major wins" are you talking about? |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
I've seen views in the media from both liberal and conservative saying its about time. Congress may dismiss it. Espeicially the new one that is much farther right but Obama will be viewed as making a brave and insightful decision.
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6 megamedia companies control almost 90 percent of everything in America you see on tv, listen on the radio, read in a newspaper or magazne, provides your access to cable tv, etc. its not a surprise. For real news about America you need to go outside of America for any real insight. |
Yeah, you have to get your information from really obscure places and then act surprised and affronted when others doubt the veracity of your claims. |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
I've seen views in the media from both liberal and conservative saying its about time. Congress may dismiss it. Espeicially the new one that is much farther right but Obama will be viewed as making a brave and insightful decision.
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6 megamedia companies control almost 90 percent of everything in America you see on tv, listen on the radio, read in a newspaper or magazne, provides your access to cable tv, etc. its not a surprise. For real news about America you need to go outside of America for any real insight. |
Yeah, you have to get your information from really obscure places and then act surprised and affronted when others doubt the veracity of your claims. |
My response to sb was a quote from sb on the Bill Cosby thread...
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=234669&start=120 |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| guavashake wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
I've seen views in the media from both liberal and conservative saying its about time. Congress may dismiss it. Espeicially the new one that is much farther right but Obama will be viewed as making a brave and insightful decision.
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6 megamedia companies control almost 90 percent of everything in America you see on tv, listen on the radio, read in a newspaper or magazne, provides your access to cable tv, etc. its not a surprise. For real news about America you need to go outside of America for any real insight. |
Yeah, you have to get your information from really obscure places and then act surprised and affronted when others doubt the veracity of your claims. |
My response to sb was a quote from sb on the Bill Cosby thread...
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=234669&start=120 |
lol...I was playing along with his final quote in that very post.
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| That or independent online sources. |
My humor must be wrapped in too much tinfoil.
All in good fun. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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GENO123
Joined: 28 Jan 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Bloomberg radio and TV is not on the list. So at a minimum one would need to increase that list to 7. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| Definitely. Our whole foreign policy towards Cuba is based on anger and embarrassment over the Bay of Pigs invasion not working and currently on the Cuban American vote in Florida. Nothng pragmatic about it. |
It was over seizure of American companies and no compensation, pretty pragmatic actually. |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Obama has gone too far with the whole cosying up to rogue states. Iran is another example. |
Iran is very dangerous, Cuba never particularly was |
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guavashake
Joined: 09 Nov 2013
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| young_clinton wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Obama has gone too far with the whole cosying up to rogue states. Iran is another example. |
Iran is very dangerous, Cuba never particularly was |
Cuba hosted nuclear missiles aimed at USA (see: Cuban Missile Crisis). |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| guavashake wrote: |
| young_clinton wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Obama has gone too far with the whole cosying up to rogue states. Iran is another example. |
Iran is very dangerous, Cuba never particularly was |
Cuba hosted nuclear missiles aimed at USA (see: Cuban Missile Crisis). |
After the Bay of Pigs invasion I can see why they did. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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I suspect the Vatican was brought on board for the negotiations in order to provide political cover. Right-wingers won't be able to attack the deal without attacking the Pope by implication.
And, yes, I know in some parts of the Bible Belt, there are still people who think the Pope is in cahoots with the Communists. I can't see any mainstream Republican wanting to be associated with that kind of thinking, however. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
I suspect the Vatican was brought on board for the negotiations in order to provide political cover. Right-wingers won't be able to attack the deal without attacking the Pope by implication.
And, yes, I know in some parts of the Bible Belt, there are still people who think the Pope is in cahoots with the Communists. I can't see any mainstream Republican wanting to be associated with that kind of thinking, however. |
You're right about the optics, but I don't think you're right about the causation. It looks more like the Vatican engineered this than the U.S. requested its involvement.
http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2014/12/whatever-francis-wants-francis-gets.html
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In sum, as Papa Bergoglio's June Holy Land peace summit scored global headlines yet failed to achieve discernible progress, today's development after a half-century standoff represents the signal diplomatic triumph of Francis' 21-month pontificate. Behind the scenes, meanwhile, even if the initial push came from the Pope, the breakthrough represents a no less sizable victory for Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Secretary of State who Francis chose for the role with a mandate to restore the Vatican's traditional standing as a geopolitical powerhouse in its ability to serve as both a peerless "listening post" and trusted mediator in international disputes.
In this case, the experience of Rome's key players provided an even more critical advantage: in his prior posting as Nuncio to Venezuela, Parolin had a rare insight into Cuba as the Vatican's mission-chief to what's become Havana's most significant Western ally, while his top deputy, the Sostituto Archbishop Angelo Becciu, had been Nuncio to the island itself for two years before returning to Rome as the Curia's "chief of staff" in 2011.
On another major front, the Vatican's role in securing the deal has likely been the reason for the holdup on Francis' intensely-awaited appointment of the next archbishop of Havana, which ops in Rome and Latin America have expected to take place sometime this fall following August's celebrations for the 50th priestly anniversary of Cardinal Jaime Ortega y Alamino, who at 78 is three years past the canonical retirement age.
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While the USCCB's international policy chief, Bishop Oscar Cantú of Las Cruces, issued a statement welcoming the Cuba accord as "past due" and urging even "more engagement" across the 93-mile strait, on this day, the national church's lead word comes from a different Mothership... the one "so close to the United States." |
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ersatzredux
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
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| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Wonderful news! Can't wait for the color revolution. I'm thinking Mariposa Revolution- I guess it'll depend on how the focus group testing goes. And for the short mindless slogan to go with it? How about Ya Basta! I'm sure it'll be catchy whatever it is. Also looking forward to the "free" elections, well, free of Communists anyway, the privatization, hyper inflation, and all the other blessings of civilization to be bestowed on our new little friends, before we forget all about them.
Maybe even a nice expansion to Guantanamo Bay with an express airport and no waiting waterboarding to come along with the new closeness . With any luck Cuba will turnout just as well as the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and other nations fortunate enough to bask under the American sun. Great day for Cubans alright!
Well, I'm sure something like that is the plan, but Cubans are full of surprises so we'll see. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ersatzredux wrote: |
Wonderful news! Can't wait for the color revolution. I'm thinking Mariposa Revolution- I guess it'll depend on how the focus group testing goes. And for the short mindless slogan to go with it? How about Ya Basta! I'm sure it'll be catchy whatever it is. Also looking forward to the "free" elections, well, free of Communists anyway, the privatization, hyper inflation, and all the other blessings of civilization to be bestowed on our new little friends, before we forget all about them.
Maybe even a nice expansion to Guantanamo Bay with an express airport and no waiting waterboarding to come along with the new closeness . With any luck Cuba will turnout just as well as the Dominican Republic, Haiti, and other nations fortunate enough to bask under the American sun. Great day for Cubans alright!
Well, I'm sure something like that is the plan, but Cubans are full of surprises so we'll see. |
So, you preferred the previous US policy of isolating Cuba politically and economically(to the point of causing material hardship to the Cuban people), on the grounds that it prevented American-sponsored political intrigue?
I mean, seriously. If someone had asked you last month if the US should lift the embargo, you honestly woud have answered "no"?
If the answer is "yes", you better hurry up and tell the Castros that they're being duped. I'm sure they'll appreciate your input. |
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ersatzredux
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Did I miss something? Who said the embargo was lifted?
I was making a prediction based on known past behavior by the Americans.
Of course the rationale on the American side is to destroy the Cuban revolution and liquidate the state. After all the success they've had with the regime change machine why wouldn't they want to give it a go here?
What I think the Americans should do is kind of besides the point. If I let a wolf in amongst my sheep, I can say that it would be better if the wolf didn't eat the sheep. Hell, I could even wax poetic about it. But I shouldn't be surprised when it happens. In fact, I would be extremely stupid to expect that it wouldn't try. Even if that wolf had a Nobel peace prize.
But like I said, Cubans are full of surprises. They haven't shown a strong inclination to gracefully accept their proper role as American rentboys, and so things may well go down differently. We'll see. |
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