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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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 Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject: Let's teach respect and politeness |
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By Aaron Frost
I am a teacher, here in Seoul. I have lived here, on and off, since 2004. This needs to be said frankly and heard by Korean parents.
It is time to start teaching your children to respect each other and show basic manners when interacting with each other and their teachers. I am writing directly to parents who, if you are honest with yourselves, focus on one thing only, with regard to your kids: getting good test scores.
Everything else is far down the list of priorities. You push your kids so ridiculously hard, from shockingly young ages that basic social skills, manners and respect are completely forgotten. Get this straight, schools are not and cannot be responsible for teaching these behaviors.
Though you would like to pass the buck and put it all on the teachers, this does not work. Kids learn to behave from their parents. When kids throw trash on the floor of their classrooms and hallways, it is because parents are not teaching kids that their mess is theirs to clean up. When kids literally walk into each other and push each other aside to get where they're going, it is because they see their elders doing it.
When they pretend to show respect by bowing and saying "yes" to teachers then continue to do the same actions immediately after, this is due to poor parenting and a lack of true respect. Yes, I am telling you all that you are not parenting your children well. Get angry all you like. Call me names. Tell me I'm a foreigner and I should mind my own business. Sticks and stones. Look around you.
Are basic human courtesies being followed by those around you? Do people say "excuse me" when bumped into? Do you? Or do they check to see how old the other person is before deciding if they NEED to say something? Do people wait to talk to someone if they are in conversation already or just start speaking with no regard? Do you? Do people clean up after themselves or throw cigarettes and wrappers in trash bins? Do you? Besides the staff at Starbucks, does anyone speak respectfully to each other or even acknowledge each other? Do you? Speaking of coffee shops, do people use just one table in a crowded shop or take two, when one would suffice? Do you? Let's take it one step further. Do people EVER smile at someone they don't know or say "hi," or have a conversation? Do you? No? Why not?
Maybe it's because no one taught you that you live on this planet with other people who have a right to their space and their comfort as much as you do. We are humans and we thrive by being social and interacting positively with each other. Korean culture is drowning in a sea of rudeness and self-centeredness. Basic courtesies are necessary for the happiness of all and you have either forgotten or have never been taught this.
After you get over your ego and the anger at being told you are parenting poorly, take a breath and ask yourselves honestly: Are you teaching your kids basic respect for one another and common politeness? Would it take too much time and effort, before or after you stress them out over test scores, to instill some basic empathy and niceness? Would Korea be a happier place if you did? |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2014/12/162_170794.html
Wow, but I'm afraid the writer is just preaching to the choir since the article is in English. |
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cmxc
Joined: 19 May 2008
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject: this forum desperately needs a like button |
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this forum desperately needs a Like button.
The letter to the editor of the Korea Times by Aaron Frost is so right on. However, I expect his employment in Korea will soon come to an end.
Or, perhaps he already handed in his resignation before submitting this letter. Koreans do not take kindly to criticism, especially from foreign English instructors. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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As I've said before- Koreans need to learn to be more careful to not bump into people and say excuse me more, NETs need to not make such a big deal out of it and stop freaking out.
I think that can apply to about 99% of these.
Also, kids are kids. They always act up. I'd give this teacher 2 months in a "diverse" lower middle-class neighborhood public school in the states before he would run back to Korea.
Do people seriously forget how much trouble they caused as youngsters?
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| Let's take it one step further. Do people EVER smile at someone they don't know or say "hi," or have a conversation? Do you? No? Why not? |
This is just the biggest bunch of loser wimpy whine. Isn't the writer a man? Like, who gives a crap if someone smiles at you or not?
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| We are humans and we thrive by being social and interacting positively with each other. |
Actually, history has shown that we mostly thrive by exploiting others for profit and gain.
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| After you get over your ego |
Speaking of getting over your ego...
Anyways, as for as empathy and niceness, consider this- If the police went on strike in Korea, what would change? We all say the Korean cops do nothing. Now, what if the cops back home went on strike? Within 96 hours society would be resembling the LA riots. It would be chaos and anarchy.
So before you go lecturing the Koreans on the ills of their society and politeness, consider what a narrow thread your own hangs by. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Kids are kids and they will act up. However, in Korea it doesn't seem to be something that they grow out of. I'm still constantly amazed by the petulance and outright rudeness of some adults here.
Consideration for other people is not something they seem to value. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Is SR comparing US ghettos to Korea? |
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candy bar
Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
| Is SR comparing US ghettos to Korea? |
 yes |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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He said lower-middle class which is not the ghettos. That would be more like crowded cookie cutter small house suburbs.
While SR is wrong about many things what he almost never wrong is about the directness of how he writes. He knows what he wants to write about and says so. Then 5-6 posters come on after him and change what he said to suit their own agenda. As teachers, especially English teachers we should never be doing that because on a test if you answered a question with a)-most- instead of b) -a significant amount- when the lecture/passage said "many" we would get it wrong. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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That article sounds like a drunken email rant sent to some Korean (or group of Koreans). It emphatically does not deserve to be published in a newspaper - even the Korean Times. The fact that Aaron thought it was insightful enough to send to a newspaper speaks volumes. Drunken rants don't belong in newspaper. The fact that the KT thought it worthy of publication is just crazy.
Who knows, maybe they're hoping for some backlash against rude foreigners who don't know their place.  |
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andrewchon
Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: Back in Oz. Living in ISIS Aust.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Only three kinds of people tell you the truth: kids, drunks, and the angry.  |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Let's teach respect and politeness |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
Are basic human courtesies being followed by those around you? |
Nurture not nature.
Courtesies are cultural concepts, they differ from place to place.
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| Do people say "excuse me" when bumped into? Do you? Or do they check to see how old the other person is before deciding if they NEED to say something? |
Bumping and brushing against are not crimes in a culture with no concept of personal space.
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| Do people wait to talk to someone if they are in conversation already or just start speaking with no regard? Do you? |
This bugs me a lot but the fact is that conversations, like everything else in korea, are viewed as shared public property.
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| Do people clean up after themselves or throw cigarettes and wrappers in trash bins? Do you? |
Koreans have not been taught yet that plastic wrappers are non-biodegradable. They're new to all these modern products, they don't yet realize the implications of them.
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| Do people EVER smile at someone they don't know or say "hi," or have a conversation? Do you? No? Why not? |
I'd rather be left alone than be constantly approached by strangers.
OP is yearning for the return of the social contract- manners that were a feature of pre-urban societies. The things that irritate him are basically a feature of every modern large city. |
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candy bar
Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| andrewchon wrote: |
| Only three kinds of people tell you the truth: kids, drunks, and the angry. |
^ 'old Korean proverb' |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:45 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
As I've said before- Koreans need to learn to be more careful to not bump into people and say excuse me more, NETs need to not make such a big deal out of it and stop freaking out.
I think that can apply to about 99% of these.
Also, kids are kids. They always act up. I'd give this teacher 2 months in a "diverse" lower middle-class neighborhood public school in the states before he would run back to Korea.
Do people seriously forget how much trouble they caused as youngsters?
| Quote: |
| Let's take it one step further. Do people EVER smile at someone they don't know or say "hi," or have a conversation? Do you? No? Why not? |
This is just the biggest bunch of loser wimpy whine. Isn't the writer a man? Like, who gives a crap if someone smiles at you or not?
| Quote: |
| We are humans and we thrive by being social and interacting positively with each other. |
Actually, history has shown that we mostly thrive by exploiting others for profit and gain.
| Quote: |
| After you get over your ego |
Speaking of getting over your ego...
Anyways, as for as empathy and niceness, consider this- If the police went on strike in Korea, what would change? We all say the Korean cops do nothing. Now, what if the cops back home went on strike? Within 96 hours society would be resembling the LA riots. It would be chaos and anarchy.
So before you go lecturing the Koreans on the ills of their society and politeness, consider what a narrow thread your own hangs by. |
Wrong about history, your speciality. Cooperation has been show to be an evolutionary trait that helped man survive.
As for smiles, i agree with the writer that the constant parade of stone faces in Korea abd refusal to make eye contact and recognize the humanity around them can get a person down.
Smile and the whole world smiles with you.
Kids don't ALWAYS act up. Why the hyperbole?
Maybe the guy could hack it in the U.S., maybe not. A lot would depend on the school principal;not every school in the U.S. is chaos, no matter the demographic. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Coltronator wrote: |
He said lower-middle class which is not the ghettos. That would be more like crowded cookie cutter small house suburbs.
While SR is wrong about many things what he almost never wrong is about the directness of how he writes. He knows what he wants to write about and says so. Then 5-6 posters come on after him and change what he said to suit their own agenda. As teachers, especially English teachers we should never be doing that because on a test if you answered a question with a)-most- instead of b) -a significant amount- when the lecture/passage said "many" we would get it wrong. |
You'd have a point if sr didn't engage in exactly the type of misquoting you describe.
You're defending a guilty man, counselor. |
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yodanole
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: La Florida
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Ethnocentrically misguided. Take a couple of ethnology classes and call me in the morning.... |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| A better idea is to just send Korean men to Japan to learn manners for 6 months instead of wasting their time sweeping and getting hit with a stick at military service. That would be great for this society. |
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