|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Sister Ray
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
The problem seems to be Korean attitudes towards private motor vehicle use.
They would rather sit in traffic for 2 hours than take the train.
If Seoul was smart, instead of requiring a huge car park be built for IKEA, they would have limited parking and demanded a railway/subway station.
They need to start charging (more?) for parking to reduce demand and encourage public transport use to the store. Expanding the car park, as one user suggested, is about the worst thing they could possibly do. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sister Ray wrote: |
The problem seems to be Korean attitudes towards private motor vehicle use.
They would rather sit in traffic for 2 hours than take the train.
If Seoul was smart, instead of requiring a huge car park be built for IKEA, they would have limited parking and demanded a railway/subway station.
They need to start charging (more?) for parking to reduce demand and encourage public transport use to the store. Expanding the car park, as one user suggested, is about the worst thing they could possibly do. |
You do realize that this is a FURNITURE STORE we are talking about, right? How exactly are you supposed to drag along a bookcase in a 35 kilo package that is 1.5 meters long with you on the subway, along with the patio table and folding umbrella? That fits nicely in the back of a mini van or SUV, or even a car trunk/roof. On the subway? Not so much. Good grief can you imagine the number of people that would be injured by one of those things falling down the stairs or escalator?
Actually, requiring IKEA to predominantly rely on rail access would be a surefire way to drive the company out of business. What kind of furniture store would have a "Sorry, we don't encourage people to drive here" policy??? We're talking about furniture, you know stuff that is big and heavy and sometimes requires two people to carry. Furniture. F U R N I T U R E.
You know, before you accuse other people for lack of planning, foresight, and their attitude, you might want to focus some of that on your own thought process and see if maybe you've made some mistakes in your assumptions.
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| Koreans are a non thinking monolith of sheeple for the most part. Critical thinking is few and far between. |
Yes, you are so far above it all. What are your lofty accomplishments that make you worthy of this pronouncement?
And judging from the post above, we ain't doing to well on the critical thinking either.
| Quote: |
| It is a furniture warehouse. The only reason people want it classified as a discount store is to force it to close twice a month (unconstitutionally) and stick it to the foreign guy. |
Sorry, but you aren't the center of their world. Stop being such a narcissist. Korean's don't revolve everything around you.
The reason is that SOME Koreans operate traditional furniture stores and feel economically threatened and face a loss of profits.
Just as mom and pop stores back home don't want a Wal-Mart nearby, not because they are afraid of Chinese products, but because they are worried about going out of business, same here. IKEA could be a Korean company selling Korean stuff and they'd still want the same regulations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sister Ray
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
You do realize that this is a FURNITURE STORE we are talking about, right? How exactly are you supposed to drag along a bookcase in a 35 kilo package that is 1.5 meters long with you on the subway, along with the patio table and folding umbrella? . |
Delivery service, man. Quite simple.
I managed to furnish my apartment just fine using the railways and delivery. Don't own a car. Don't need one. Don't want one. Cars ruin cities. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Sister Ray wrote: |
The problem seems to be Korean attitudes towards private motor vehicle use.
They would rather sit in traffic for 2 hours than take the train.
If Seoul was smart, instead of requiring a huge car park be built for IKEA, they would have limited parking and demanded a railway/subway station.
They need to start charging (more?) for parking to reduce demand and encourage public transport use to the store. Expanding the car park, as one user suggested, is about the worst thing they could possibly do. |
You do realize that this is a FURNITURE STORE we are talking about, right? How exactly are you supposed to drag along a bookcase in a 35 kilo package that is 1.5 meters long with you on the subway, along with the patio table and folding umbrella? That fits nicely in the back of a mini van or SUV, or even a car trunk/roof. On the subway? Not so much. Good grief can you imagine the number of people that would be injured by one of those things falling down the stairs or escalator?
Actually, requiring IKEA to predominantly rely on rail access would be a surefire way to drive the company out of business. What kind of furniture store would have a "Sorry, we don't encourage people to drive here" policy??? We're talking about furniture, you know stuff that is big and heavy and sometimes requires two people to carry. Furniture. F U R N I T U R E.
You know, before you accuse other people for lack of planning, foresight, and their attitude, you might want to focus some of that on your own thought process and see if maybe you've made some mistakes in your assumptions.
| Cave Dweller wrote: |
| Koreans are a non thinking monolith of sheeple for the most part. Critical thinking is few and far between. |
Yes, you are so far above it all. What are your lofty accomplishments that make you worthy of this pronouncement?
And judging from the post above, we ain't doing to well on the critical thinking either.
| Quote: |
| It is a furniture warehouse. The only reason people want it classified as a discount store is to force it to close twice a month (unconstitutionally) and stick it to the foreign guy. |
Sorry, but you aren't the center of their world. Stop being such a narcissist. Korean's don't revolve everything around you.
The reason is that SOME Koreans operate traditional furniture stores and feel economically threatened and face a loss of profits.
Just as mom and pop stores back home don't want a Wal-Mart nearby, not because they are afraid of Chinese products, but because they are worried about going out of business, same here. IKEA could be a Korean company selling Korean stuff and they'd still want the same regulations. |
That's questionable at best. There are large furniture chains in Korea; nobody's protesting them. And why stop there? Why not make the large coffee shop chains shut down twice a month?
As for driving versus public transportation, Ikea does offer delivery, for a fee, in Korea. So the scenario you describe is a bit farfetched.
I agree though that driving is more practical, which is why I disagree with those who say the cost of living in Korea is low due to being able to live without a car. You save money without a car, indeed, but at the cost of a lower quality of life.
I don't think the observation that access to Ikea wasn't thought out by the powers that be is, as you put it, an accusation. It's obvious that there was either a lack of planning or a gross misjudgment regarding the pent-up demand in Korea for Ikea. The results are there for all to see.
Anyone been to Ikea yet? I'll be moving to a new apartment in a couple of months so I'll probably be needing some stuff. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sister Ray wrote: |
The problem seems to be Korean attitudes towards private motor vehicle use.
They would rather sit in traffic for 2 hours than take the train. |
I wouldn't say it's uniquely a Korean problem. If I had a car, I'd rather sit 2 hours in traffic than 2 hours on a subway. A car is a huge depreciating investment, might as well use it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Sister Ray wrote: |
The problem seems to be Korean attitudes towards private motor vehicle use.
They would rather sit in traffic for 2 hours than take the train. |
I wouldn't say it's uniquely a Korean problem. If I had a car, I'd rather sit 2 hours in traffic than 2 hours on a subway. A car is a huge depreciating investment, might as well use it. |
I agree. Drive it to the wheels fall off. There's no need to let it sit on the sidewalk clogging up pedestrian traffic when you can take it out unto the street and cross park on the zebra stripes making it difficult for pedestrians to cross over. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kingplaya4
Joined: 14 May 2006
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Steelrails and northway, you two can take your arrogance and shove it up your ass. Steelrails don't you work for EPIK or something? Unless either of you are CEOs that do business with Korea, or politicians that have a hand in dealing with trade agreements, you guys have zero room for superiority. I read the American news daily, and I can tell you Korean news stories are hitting the wires weekly now.
The tank incident that is well known on this website was not widely reported in the US at the time. Because of Korea's greater prominence and the internet's dominance of the news cycle, that wouldn't be the case today. Korea's products, with the possible exception of Samsung smartphones are not loved for their quality. They attained market share in the US because of price. If Korea wishes to grow its market share, they need to look as good as possible internationally. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PeteJB
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| I hate this sheep mentality. 48,000 visitors on its first day? For fold-up furniture, really? |
Have you seen Korean made furniture (and let's not even get started on that Chinese made stuff)? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kingplaya4 wrote: |
Steelrails and northway, you two can take your arrogance and shove it up your ass. Steelrails don't you work for EPIK or something? Unless either of you are CEOs that do business with Korea, or politicians that have a hand in dealing with trade agreements, you guys have zero room for superiority. I read the American news daily, and I can tell you Korean news stories are hitting the wires weekly now.
The tank incident that is well known on this website was not widely reported in the US at the time. Because of Korea's greater prominence and the internet's dominance of the news cycle, that wouldn't be the case today. Korea's products, with the possible exception of Samsung smartphones are not loved for their quality. They attained market share in the US because of price. If Korea wishes to grow its market share, they need to look as good as possible internationally. |
Hyundai actually is very well respected at this point. LG as well, particularly for its appliances. Ditto Samsung, for its consumer electronics. These are pretty high end products. Kia still lags, but its reputation has improved dramatically over the last decade. Even Korean cosmetics are catching on in the States. Hallyu may be a load of crap, but Korea is considered a source of quality goods at this point, and those goods are no longer cheap. To say otherwise suggests that one has either been away from home for too long or simply hates Korea so much that they can't acknowledge that it could make anything good.
In any case, I'd hardly say that news stories hitting the wires "weekly" qualifies as "under the microscope". Malaysian air safety might be under a microscope. North Korea might be under a microscope. Russia might be under a microscope. The ROK is not. People aren't going to stop buying LG refrigerators and Sonatas because of an ill-advised move to shut down Ikea any more than they did because of a ban on US beef. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kingplaya4
Joined: 14 May 2006
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
Please. How long did it take for Hyundai to release a hybrid? Toyota's been making them since the 90s. They look awfully similar to Hondas too. Whirlpool refrigerators from back in the day are just as good as anything LG makes. They're hardly a needed name in appliances. Why do you think these companies pitch a fit every time the won goes up 5% or so? Do German manufacturers do that? They don't need to.
I didn't put any though into typing the word microscope. Korea is getting a lot more attention that it used to, and much of it seems to be negative. That was my point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kingplaya4 wrote: |
Please. How long did it take for Hyundai to release a hybrid? Toyota's been making them since the 90s. They look awfully similar to Hondas too. Whirlpool refrigerators from back in the day are just as good as anything LG makes. They're hardly a needed name in appliances. Why do you think these companies pitch a fit every time the won goes up 5% or so? Do German manufacturers do that? They don't need to.
I didn't put any though into typing the word microscope. Korea is getting a lot more attention that it used to, and much of it seems to be negative. That was my point. |
Who cares what Hyundai did before? What matters is what they're doing now. Honestly, how long has it been since you lived stateside? Because these are brands that have totally transformed themselves over the last decade, and your information seems rather dated.
Now, why do Korean manufacturers care about the value of the won more than German manufacturers care about the value of the Euro? Might it have something to do with the fact that Korea has a domestic market of 60 million consumers while Germany has a domestic market of upwards of 500 million consumers? That's the whole point of the currency union, and this is one of the biggest issues facing its continued viability.
In any case, you're the one who used the term microscope, not me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sister Ray wrote: |
Delivery service, man. Quite simple.
|
But not for the store. I can't think of any furniture store that would try to run their business on such a model as to actively discourage people from driving to its store and relying overwhelmingly on delivery.
Most of the customers are not single people, but families. Its rather easy to go by yourself on the subway. Its a bit of a pain to do it with kids. Also, you usually combine a trip out to the suburbs on the weekend with something else, like a picnic or sledding or whatnot. Why do you need to bring the kids? Because you are buying THEIR desk and THEIR bed and you need to make sure they like it and it fits them well. Also, goods there vary in size, additionally people might make impulse purchases that they would be reluctant to or end up cancelling if it was a delivery product. Its basic consumer behavior.
| Quote: |
| I managed to furnish my apartment just fine using the railways and delivery |
You are assuming that everyone is like you and all of these drivers also happen to live near subway stations themselves. unfortunately, people come from all directions- North, South, East, West. They come from all kinds of communities, some of which don't have convenient rail access. Not all of them are going to have efficient access to light rail. Why should someone take a 3 hour bus and subway ride when they could take an hour long drive? Time is money.
| Quote: |
| Don't own a car. Don't need one. Don't want one. Cars ruin cities. |
Yes you do. You need the car that delivered your stuff. Your non-car owning lifestyle is enabled by others that do have cars.
And 99 times out of 100, people who say stuff like that really mean "I'm too broke to afford a car, so to make myself feel 'above it all', I'll just say I don't want one and look down on drivers".
The people who complain about too many cars are like the people who complain about the crowds at Costco. Everyone else is on the road or at a Costco is there for a dumb reason, but their reason is perfectly valid.
I even have to (partially) agree with atwood! -
| Quote: |
| I agree though that driving is more practical, which is why I disagree with those who say the cost of living in Korea is low due to being able to live without a car. You save money without a car, indeed, but at the cost of a lower quality of life. |
Testify! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kingplaya4 wrote: |
Steelrails and northway, you two can take your arrogance and shove it up your ass. Steelrails don't you work for EPIK or something? Unless either of you are CEOs that do business with Korea, or politicians that have a hand in dealing with trade agreements, you guys have zero room for superiority. I read the American news daily, and I can tell you Korean news stories are hitting the wires weekly now.
|
I don't work for EPIK.
I read the news daily too. No one's obsessing over Korea and its trade practices and products the way you are. You act like reading daily American news is some sort of special achievement. Newsflash- Web browsers have this thing called "Speed dial" and I can pull up 6 American news sites in an instant and read their stories, which I do. Thousands of expats here do something similar. I also have a print subscription to the International New York Times.
Newswire? Getting daily American news something special? Do you get daily cables or 3 week old newspapers coming in by zeppelin? What is this the 1940s? "Headline Korea! President Truman promised tough talk today on Korea concerning the importation of auto-mobiles and home moving picture boxes, while urging them to keep up the fight against Communism. And now here's Edward R. Murrow with a special report on the Korean ferry disaster that has been gripping the nation. But first a special message from Chesterfield cigarettes. Sound off for Chesterfield!"
The issue isn't if Korean news stories are hitting the wires, the issue is whether people back home deeply pay attention to them and care. They don't. They don't live in Korea. They just skim over it. The big issues back home are Race and Gay. Not Korean consumer products and trade practices.
| Quote: |
| Please. How long did it take for Hyundai to release a hybrid? |
That statement is about as relevant as "How long did it take for Chrysler to put in airbags?"
| Quote: |
| Whirlpool refrigerators from back in the day are just as good as anything LG makes. |
Not on your energy bill. Yes, they all keep things cold, but today's designs are much more energy efficient.
| Quote: |
| I didn't put any though into typing the word microscope. Korea is getting a lot more attention that it used to, and much of it seems to be negative. That was my point. |
Well if you are poor at making that kind of distinction when you write, maybe you're making mistakes in interpreting distinctions in other things. There's a big difference between "regular news stories about Korea" and "Korea's under the microscope".
And yeah, you sound like you're quite out of date with your product and market "analysis". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sister Ray
Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Location: Fukuoka
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
And 99 times out of 100, people who say stuff like that really mean "I'm too broke to afford a car, so to make myself feel 'above it all', I'll just say I don't want one and look down on drivers". |
This is exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about. The only reason one would choose not to drive would be poverty. I must drive or people will think I'm a peasant. What a load of rubbish.
Private automobiles are a terribly inefficient way to move large amounts of people. Seoul is a prime example of this. Constantly congested 10 lane arterials make it a pretty unpleasant city from an urban design perspective Compare with transit oriented Tokyo. Much less traffic. Much better air quality. Much more pleasant city in which to spend time.
If you want to reduce congestion and improve amenity around popular places like IKEA, Jongno, Gangnam, no amount of road widening and extra parking will do it. An increased focus on transit will.
Stop being so willfully obtuse. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| northway wrote: |
| kingplaya4 wrote: |
Please. How long did it take for Hyundai to release a hybrid? Toyota's been making them since the 90s. They look awfully similar to Hondas too. Whirlpool refrigerators from back in the day are just as good as anything LG makes. They're hardly a needed name in appliances. Why do you think these companies pitch a fit every time the won goes up 5% or so? Do German manufacturers do that? They don't need to.
I didn't put any though into typing the word microscope. Korea is getting a lot more attention that it used to, and much of it seems to be negative. That was my point. |
Who cares what Hyundai did before? What matters is what they're doing now. Honestly, how long has it been since you lived stateside? Because these are brands that have totally transformed themselves over the last decade, and your information seems rather dated.
Now, why do Korean manufacturers care about the value of the won more than German manufacturers care about the value of the Euro? Might it have something to do with the fact that Korea has a domestic market of 60 million consumers while Germany has a domestic market of upwards of 500 million consumers? That's the whole point of the currency union, and this is one of the biggest issues facing its continued viability.
In any case, you're the one who used the term microscope, not me. |
Hyundai sales in the U.S. have decreased recently, supposedly due to the more conservative styling of the current Sonata.
Kia (and Hyundai?) was caught inflating average MPG figues twice. I wonder if that's why the Korean government just charged Chevrolet, Audi and Toyota with doing the same thing. The US actions were in response to consumers. And no one is complaining about the gas mileage they get in their Prius there, yet the Korean government says the numbers are overstated.
Who knows why they suddenly decided to test them? Maybe the continued increase in foreign car sales in Korea has something to to with it.
Samsung and LG smartphones are losing market share to the Chinese phones. They sell a lot of home appliances, but how long will it take for the Chinese to crack that market?
So a weak won it is and a shadow protectionism while it tries to get in on the TPP. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
