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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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 Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:46 am Post subject: Class |
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Last edited by fustiancorduroy on Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:28 am; edited 2 times in total |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:24 am Post subject: |
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If you for the most part have no other assets or debts, then I agree with your wife. You have got one foot in the doorway of low-middle class.
My rough idea of middle-middle class is no debt, 300 million in assets, and a husband/wife income of +8 million per month. |
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beentheredonethat777
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Location: AsiaHaven
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:54 am Post subject: Re: What is Middle Class in Korea? |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
My wife and I have argued about this a few times. Specifically, she feels that even though I earn between 5 and 8 million won a month, that we live in a 80 square meter apartment, and that we own a fairly new car, we are at best, just barely middle class, and, at worst that we are still working class. I argue that I have a college degree, a job that pays me based on my skills and knowledge and not physical labor, and that I earn well over the median income for Korea, meaning that we are middle class. I then state that middle class in Seoul means earning between about 3 million and 5 million won a month.
So, what do you think constitutes middle class in Korea, especially Seoul? Is making 5 million won a month still working class? Should you make at least 10 million won a month to be middle class? Or is having assets -- worth at least several hundred thousand dollars -- more important for being middle class? Or does my wife have her standards set too high? |
In Seoul 10 million or more, other places 5 million.(According to my boss and co-teachers. But women, in general, compare their live style to that of friends and associates. One of my friends (American , married to Korean woman) barely scrapes in 2.5 million won a month. But they live well and his wife in happy in the countryside. So, it's all relative.
Here's a lengthy article from BBC to help you decide. I didn't know how to link it. Here it is...
Koreans` sense of deprivation rises despite higher incomes
MARCH 18, 2013 07:48
음성듣기
“I`ve given up preparing for life after retirement. I cannot give up my present life, right?”
A 36-year-old manager at a conglomerate is the breadwinner of his family and father of a son in elementary school and a daughter in kindergarten. After paying taxes and national pension, he earns 4.5 million won (4,000 U.S. dollars) each month and including bonuses, his annual salary is about 70 million won (63,000 dollars). Nonetheless, he said of his economic situation, “It would barely reach the middle-class level.”
So what income bracket does he belong to? According to data on five brackets that categorize income levels in order by 20 percent each, he belongs to the upper segment of the fourth bracket, or the second highest, which translates into upper middle class. The monthly household income of those in the fourth bracket was 4.09 million (3,680 dollars) to 5.46 million won (4,910 dollars).
○ Monthly income of 5.3 million won (4,770 dollars) deemed “mid-middle class”
The income levels that Koreans consider middle and upper class have escalated. The number of people who consider themselves lower middle class among the upper middle, mid-middle and lower middle classes has significantly increased over the past 10 years.
According to data on consumer perception and lifestyle from 2002 to last year released by Hankook Research, the average monthly household income of those who said they were in lower middle class was 2.32 million won (2,090 dollars) in 2002. That of the mid-middle class was 2.98 million won (2,680 dollars), that of the upper middle class 3.8 million won (3,420 dollars), and that of the upper class 4.53 million won (4,070 dollars).
In last year`s survey, each of the figures had risen by 80 percent. The average monthly household income of those who considered themselves low middle class was 4.18 million won (3,760 dollars), that of the mid-middle class 5.3 million won (4,770 dollars), and that of the upper middle class 6.69 million won (6,020 dollars). That of the upper class was 8.34 million won (7,500 dollars).
According to a report released in August last year by the Korea Institute of Health and Social Affairs, a third of the middle class considered themselves lower class and 80 percent of the upper class saw themselves as middle class. Kim Yoo-gyeong, a senior researcher at the state-funded institute, said, “This situation has occurred because the sense of relative deprivation that individuals feel has increased due to deepening income polarization.”
○ More than half of 30-somethings call themselves “below lower middle class”
The most notable change over the past 10 years was the perception among 30-somethings, who were found to have the deepest sense of relative deprivation. In 2002 when these people were in their 20s, 67.9 percent of them said they were above “mid-middle class” or higher. Ten years later, however, more than half (51.1 percent) of them called themselves “below lower middle class.”
One 34-year-old office worker said, “While in my 20s, I`d plan to go on overseas trips every year, and going to gourmet restaurants was something that I enjoyed very much. But now, I can hardly afford a cup of takeout coffee.”
He said he thought that landing job at a conglomerate would enable him to live a middle-class life, but his perception changed when he looked to move into a jeonse home, or a rental home based on a lump sum deposit, after getting married.
“I worked hard to save 50 million won (45,000 dollars) to repay loans for my jeonse home over the past two years, but the jeonse price has increased exactly by that amount. I`ve failed to reduce my debt at all. I can hardly afford to do things as I please, and I don’t know what I`m working for,” he said.
According to experts, Koreans in their 30s were born in an era of prosperity, feel a comparative “downgrading of their economic level,” as they cannot afford to maintain the consumption level they enjoyed as singles after marriage. Today’s 30-somethings who went to college in the mid to late-1990s are categorized as the “X Generation,” who tend to identify themselves through consumption of name brand goods.
“When children are young, there`s little difference on the surface between those from lower and middle income families because parents invest in their children more than anything else. But as they witness the gap toward friends or colleagues widen in their 20s and 30s, they naturally feel a higher sense of deprivation,” said Kwak Geum-joo, a psychology professor at Seoul National University. “Younger generations who were born in an era of consumption have a deeper sense of deprivation, and will display a ‘subjective sense of welfare” at the national level in the future.”
○ Sense of deprivation higher in Ulsan and Seoul, where income levels are higher
By region, the proportion of people who called themselves lower middle class rose most conspicuously in Ulsan and Seoul. Ulsan ranks first in average household income level in the nation and Seoul ranks second. It is interpreted that the higher the average income is, the stronger the sense of relative deprivation is.
In 2002, 56.1 percent of Ulsan residents called themselves mid-middle class, but last year, 55.1 percent of them said they are lower middle class. Those who called themselves lower middle class increased 20.6 percentage points over the past 10 years. In Seoul, the proportion of people who called themselves mid-middle class decreased 20.4 percentage points, while those who said lower middle class gained 13.4 percentage points. In contrast, the degree of change in perception was relatively smaller in Gwangju and Busan.
“An individual’s sense of relative deprivation increases when he or she makes direct comparisons with other people via the Internet or external situations,” said Seo Yong-seok, chief of the social unity research division at the Korea Institute of Public Administration. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:43 am Post subject: |
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I hope your wife is at least working. My mom used to rag my dad out like that all the damn time and I don't know how he tolerated it, but at least she did work a full-time job, part-time jobs, and helped on the farm.
In my personal opinion, income is important, but net worth is a more important indicator of a person's level of wealth or poverty. For example, some people make a good income, but they spend it as quickly as they get it. This is especially true for NFL and NBA players.
I'm in the low 2's as far as income goes, which puts me as one of the very lowest earners on all of Dave's ESL Café. But according to this chart, my net worth is higher than the median in every country listed and the only country that has a higher mean net worth is Switzerland. http://econintersect.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/z-temp3.png
So I feel like I'm doing okay, I don't sweat my low income, and I really don't care. Of course, I don't have a wife ragging my ass out about it every time I come home from work either. If I did, I'd liquidate my assets, hide them, get a divorce, and go back to coming home to a quiet apartment after work where I can relax, enjoy life, and bring over an occasional low maintenance chick for a good time.
Life is short, so enjoy it. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: Re: What is Middle Class in Korea? |
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| fustiancorduroy wrote: |
My wife and I have argued about this a few times. Specifically, she feels that even though I earn between 5 and 8 million won a month, that we live in a 80 square meter apartment...
So, what do you think constitutes middle class in Korea, especially Seoul? Is making 5 million won a month still working class? Should you make at least 10 million won a month to be middle class? Or is having assets -- worth at least several hundred thousand dollars -- more important for being middle class? Or does my wife have her standards set too high? |
Several hundred thousand dollars in assets would be impressive for a 20 year old, but not for a 40 year old.
In judging your middle class status, I think you need to look at household income. Alone, you're doing well. But a household income of 5 Mil is probably not high in Seoul (or most Korean cities).
I've said many times though if most Seoulites could take their income and make the same amount in a smaller city, they'd be much better off. For most teachers I think this is possible. I mean for the cost of Jeon-sae in Seoul you could own a house in most other cities. Then you really start banking it, and feel more secure. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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This is a pretty silly conversation. Someone making between 60k and 96k is middle class? 60k yes middle of the middle. 90k? ughhhhh... Top of middle.
Unless you are this loon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0UXtLv8c0w |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| My wife and I have argued about this a few times |
Sounds like you picked a real keeper there. |
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FDNY
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Our combined family income is about 6,000,000KRW/month. We have one
kidergarden aged child. We are barely scraping by. |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| FDNY wrote: |
Our combined family income is about 6,000,000KRW/month. We have one
kidergarden aged child. We are barely scraping by. |
That doesn't seem right. Do you have expensive tastes? |
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radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| If you talk to married Korean guys, it is the birthright of korean wives to talk shit to their husbands about bringing home more money. Many of these poor saps feel as they are merely ATMs for their family. |
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Neil
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Some of these spolit kids who think they are working class on 70k pa are in for a rude awakening in a few years when the huge debts they are running up come back to haunt them and they genuinly have to live on a working class income. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Net Worth + Income (Seoul)
50M NW + 5M per month I
Working Class |
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Qonny
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| FDNY wrote: |
Our combined family income is about 6,000,000KRW/month. We have one
kidergarden aged child. We are barely scraping by. |
Why? Are you sending your kid to all sorts of early childhood special schools? My family income and situation is exactly the same as you, but we live comfortanly and save a decent chunk. Own one car. Jeonsae apartment. Usual additional costs, private insurance etc. Travel overseas once a year typically. We do live outside Seoul.
Im genuinely interested as to what you are sinking your money into. Hagwon owner? |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Neil wrote: |
| Some of these spolit kids who think they are working class on 70k pa are in for a rude awakening in a few years when the huge debts they are running up come back to haunt them and they genuinly have to live on a working class income. |
For sure, $70k net for a single person is solidly middle class wages. That's like $6000/month cash after taxes. Problem is that most here probably have no idea what working class wages are really like after spending most of their formative years in the suburbs. I'd say anything over $2000/month net is comfortable for a single person. Not saying it's great, but you aren't in the poor house either. For a family of 3, with only 1 person working I'd bump that number up to $3000, and each additional person maybe another $500.
So for a family of 4, and only 1 person working, if you're making $3500 it's middle class, lower middle-class. If your partner works too, then it just makes things easier.
I think the median income in Canada in 2011 was around $28k/yr. That's half of the population makes under, and half makes over. The average is around $45k-ish. $75k is not working class wages, you'd have to at least cut that number in half to get into 'working-class' wages. And that's a guy supporting his wife and 2 kids on that money.
But I must admit there is a razor thin line into falling into tough times if you fall below a certain income. Because people are raised into a certain lifestyle, and tend to overstretch their income. A lot of people are probably hurting if they miss a paycheck. |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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All the foreigners in Korea are like school on a holiday - no class.
Literally, since foreigners exist outside the Korean social structure. |
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