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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Neil wrote: |
| Some of these spolit kids who think they are working class on 70k pa are in for a rude awakening in a few years when the huge debts they are running up come back to haunt them and they genuinly have to live on a working class income. |
For sure, $70k net for a single person is solidly middle class wages. That's like $6000/month cash after taxes. Problem is that most here probably have no idea what working class wages are really like after spending most of their formative years in the suburbs. I'd say anything over $2000/month net is comfortable for a single person. Not saying it's great, but you aren't in the poor house either. For a family of 3, with only 1 person working I'd bump that number up to $3000, and each additional person maybe another $500.
So for a family of 4, and only 1 person working, if you're making $3500 it's middle class, lower middle-class. If your partner works too, then it just makes things easier.
I think the median income in Canada in 2011 was around $28k/yr. That's half of the population makes under, and half makes over. The average is around $45k-ish. $75k is not working class wages, you'd have to at least cut that number in half to get into 'working-class' wages. And that's a guy supporting his wife and 2 kids on that money.
But I must admit there is a razor thin line into falling into tough times if you fall below a certain income. Because people are raised into a certain lifestyle, and tend to overstretch their income. A lot of people are probably hurting if they miss a paycheck. |
There's more to "class" than income.
Educational background, family history, what kind of job you do, your attitudes, beliefs, manners - these call come into play.
A welder can make $100,000 plus dollars a year and have no education beyond grade 12. But I wouldn't call him middle class. He's just a working class guy who probably drives a really nice pickup truck. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Paddycakes wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| Neil wrote: |
| Some of these spolit kids who think they are working class on 70k pa are in for a rude awakening in a few years when the huge debts they are running up come back to haunt them and they genuinly have to live on a working class income. |
For sure, $70k net for a single person is solidly middle class wages. That's like $6000/month cash after taxes. Problem is that most here probably have no idea what working class wages are really like after spending most of their formative years in the suburbs. I'd say anything over $2000/month net is comfortable for a single person. Not saying it's great, but you aren't in the poor house either. For a family of 3, with only 1 person working I'd bump that number up to $3000, and each additional person maybe another $500.
So for a family of 4, and only 1 person working, if you're making $3500 it's middle class, lower middle-class. If your partner works too, then it just makes things easier.
I think the median income in Canada in 2011 was around $28k/yr. That's half of the population makes under, and half makes over. The average is around $45k-ish. $75k is not working class wages, you'd have to at least cut that number in half to get into 'working-class' wages. And that's a guy supporting his wife and 2 kids on that money.
But I must admit there is a razor thin line into falling into tough times if you fall below a certain income. Because people are raised into a certain lifestyle, and tend to overstretch their income. A lot of people are probably hurting if they miss a paycheck. |
There's more to "class" than income.
Educational background, family history, what kind of job you do, your attitudes, beliefs, manners - these call come into play.
A welder can make $100,000 plus dollars a year and have no education beyond grade 12. But I wouldn't call him middle class. He's just a working class guy who probably drives a really nice pickup truck. |
Yes, true. Are you British by any change?
Anyways, with the egalitarian nature of North America income is probably the biggest factor in determining how people views someone. Of course, if you have a roughneck, and a doctor, both earning 100k, over for dinner, and the roughneck decides to show up in his dirty overalls, you might think working class. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Paddycakes wrote: |
There's more to "class" than income.
Educational background, family history, what kind of job you do, your attitudes, beliefs, manners - these call come into play.. |
Someone finally gets it.
All the nouveau riche (who haven't a clue what class is) think its all about income. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Paddycakes wrote:
There's more to "class" than income.
Educational background, family history, what kind of job you do, your attitudes, beliefs, manners - these call come into play..
Someone finally gets it.
All the nouveau riche (who haven't a clue what class is) think its all about income. |
Here's a very simple test. I came out 'technical' middle class
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22000973 |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Paddycakes wrote: |
There's more to "class" than income.
Educational background, family history, what kind of job you do, your attitudes, beliefs, manners - these call come into play.. |
Someone finally gets it.
All the nouveau riche (who haven't a clue what class is) think its all about income. |
agree |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
Paddycakes wrote:
There's more to "class" than income.
Educational background, family history, what kind of job you do, your attitudes, beliefs, manners - these call come into play..
Someone finally gets it.
All the nouveau riche (who haven't a clue what class is) think its all about income. |
Here's a very simple test. I came out 'technical' middle class
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22000973 |
It had to be a BBC survey. To me the following quote sums up many (if not most) Americans, and Canadians, view on class.
"To Americans, social status is all about money and power. To Brits it is all about birth and accent." |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: |
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The BBC survey says this about me:
Precariat
This is the poorest and most deprived class group. According to the Great British Class Survey results, lots of people in this group:
Tend to mix socially with people like themselves
Come from a working class background
Rent their home - over 80% |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Precariat
This is the poorest and most deprived class group. |
A more accurate current test for this group would probably be something like
Do you have more than one visible tattoo?
Do you have at least one tooth missing?
Are you obese?
Do you watch The Jeremy Kyle Show when it's actually on TV?
Do you know at least one person who's been on it?
Do you have a TV screen that takes up more space than the total number of books/magazines/newspapers you have in the house?
Do you believe that the aquisition of trainers is the primary function of having a disposable income?
Do you think the reason why you don't have a job is because Slovakians take them all?
Do you have a family pet that has never been toilet trained?
Do you sit around discussing which character on Shameless you are most like?
Three or more positive answers puts you firmly in the underclass  |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:47 am Post subject: |
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I'd be answering no to all of those, but the fact that I have to answer yes to all of the following is pretty telling:
Have you ever had a mullet?
Have you ever gotten up before dawn to milk a cow?
Have you ever cut tobacco from daylight 'til dark before the age of 10?
Have you ever picked up cans on the side of the road with a garbage bag?
Have you ever worked with at least two convicted murderers simultaneously?
Were all of your high school sweethearts either high school dropouts or in their 20s?
Have you met a one night stand in a fast food joint within the past five years?
Have you ever had the nickname Jethro? |
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cheolsu
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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To provide some actual numbers, here are the latest numbers on household income in Korea released by the Bank of Korea, Statistics Korea and the Financial Supervisory Service. An incredibly bad written article (in Korean) on the report is here:
http://www.edaily.co.kr/news/NewsRead.edy?SCD=JA11&newsid=02099206606285720&DCD=A00101
A link to the report (in Korean, relevant portion starting on page 26 of the PDF) is here:
http://kostat.go.kr/portal/korea/kor_nw/2/1/index.board?bmode=read&aSeq=332018
Since the report and the article note average income within a quintile (eg the richest 20% of households make an average of 108 million won a year), but not cutoffs, here are some cut-offs:
0-10 million won - 12.8%
10-30 million won - 25.5%
30-50 million won - 25.6%
50-70 million won - 15.9%
70-100 million won - 12.0%
over 100 million won - 8.1% |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| cheolsu wrote: |
To provide some actual numbers, here are the latest numbers on household income in Korea released by the Bank of Korea, Statistics Korea and the Financial Supervisory Service. An incredibly bad written article (in Korean) on the report is here:
http://www.edaily.co.kr/news/NewsRead.edy?SCD=JA11&newsid=02099206606285720&DCD=A00101
A link to the report (in Korean, relevant portion starting on page 26 of the PDF) is here:
http://kostat.go.kr/portal/korea/kor_nw/2/1/index.board?bmode=read&aSeq=332018
Since the report and the article note average income within a quintile (eg the richest 20% of households make an average of 108 million won a year), but not cutoffs, here are some cut-offs:
0-10 million won - 12.8%
10-30 million won - 25.5%
30-50 million won - 25.6%
50-70 million won - 15.9%
70-100 million won - 12.0%
over 100 million won - 8.1% |
There are many households claiming 0-10 million won but are making 20 million. Claiming 10-30 but are making 40. Claiming 30-50 but are making 90. Claiming 70-100 but are making over 120.
Underground economy.
My guess is on average those income numbers are around 35% less than the real incomes. |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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I took the test and scored "elite," but funny enough, i live in ulsan and feel like we are solid middle class. however, i don't feel bad about it and that others are passing us by. social comparison, though unavoidable to a small degree, is a fools game. i can honestly say that when i was in my early 20's i worried that i would be able to feed a family and keep them in the basics. fast forward 20 years, and i look what we have achieved and i feel great gratitude for the things we have, not envy for the things we don't have.
to fdny, it takes a while to amass savings, especially with children, regardless of income.
ps, never, ever, invest with mirrae asset and the like. |
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tophatcat
Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Location: under the hat
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| meangradin wrote: |
I took the test and scored "elite," but funny enough, i live in ulsan and feel like we are solid middle class. however, i don't feel bad about it and that others are passing us by. social comparison, though unavoidable to a small degree, is a fools game. i can honestly say that when i was in my early 20's i worried that i would be able to feed a family and keep them in the basics. fast forward 20 years, and i look what we have achieved and i feel great gratitude for the things we have, not envy for the things we don't have.
to fdny, it takes a while to amass savings, especially with children, regardless of income.
ps, never, ever, invest with mirrae asset and the like. |
I don't know much about investment companies here in Korea but it is interesting you mention mirrae asset. I know a Korean man who had investment ties with them and lost everything he had, home and all. What's up with mirrae asset? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| meangradin wrote: |
I took the test and scored "elite," but funny enough, i live in ulsan and feel like we are solid middle class. however, i don't feel bad about it and that others are passing us by. social comparison, though unavoidable to a small degree, is a fools game. i can honestly say that when i was in my early 20's i worried that i would be able to feed a family and keep them in the basics. fast forward 20 years, and i look what we have achieved and i feel great gratitude for the things we have, not envy for the things we don't have.
to fdny, it takes a while to amass savings, especially with children, regardless of income.
ps, never, ever, invest with mirrae asset and the like. |
Great post! (and good advice) |
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meangradin
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| tophatcat wrote: |
| meangradin wrote: |
I took the test and scored "elite," but funny enough, i live in ulsan and feel like we are solid middle class. however, i don't feel bad about it and that others are passing us by. social comparison, though unavoidable to a small degree, is a fools game. i can honestly say that when i was in my early 20's i worried that i would be able to feed a family and keep them in the basics. fast forward 20 years, and i look what we have achieved and i feel great gratitude for the things we have, not envy for the things we don't have.
to fdny, it takes a while to amass savings, especially with children, regardless of income.
ps, never, ever, invest with mirrae asset and the like. |
I don't know much about investment companies here in Korea but it is interesting you mention mirrae asset. I know a Korean man who had investment ties with them and lost everything he had, home and all. What's up with mirrae asset? |
The problem with these companies is that they blatantly lie and deceive about decent returns on your money when really they are just selling you garbage investments. The good news is that if you record your meetings, then you can get out of any contract if you can document purposeful deceit. |
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