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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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| what socio economic group does your Korean wife/girlfreind come from? |
| super rich - first class travel, yacht, penthouse in Gagnam etc.. |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| rich - more than one property, educated abroad, German car |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
| well-off - nice flat, more than one car, holidays abroad |
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18% |
[ 7 ] |
| middle-cass - big enough flat, reasonable car, eat out sometimes |
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40% |
[ 15 ] |
| lower middle class - just about getting by. One earner on around 2 million |
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16% |
[ 6 ] |
| poor - cramped flat, unskilled worker, no holidays etc.. |
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8% |
[ 3 ] |
| cardboard collectors |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| candy bar wrote: |
| I would think the women from upper-middle to higher class families would be less likely to have as many secrets. |
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chungbukdo
Joined: 22 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hard to say. I grew up with a few power boats and multiple waterfront properties but consider myself middle class (parents had regular jobs plus built and sold houses). Those are the kind of things you can afford in a nice country that isnt crammed full of people.
Her father on the other hand has a factory with a lot of engineers, yet they live in an apartment in Incheon (tiny by Canadian standards) and never experience anything like I got to. But at least they could afford to educate their daughters abroad.
Most "rich" Koreans live in absolute crap compared to regular middle class (or even lower) Canadians outside the city. Congratulations on your 1 car, Mr Hyundai executive. Bet you feel proud you spent 80 hours per week working on it and ignoring your kids. On the other hand Canadian teenage boy over here has a car and a sportbike before 20, with a masterbedroom as big as the executive's whole apartment. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Anyway I think it's time to scotch the rumour that English teachers In Korea end up with women at the bottom end of the socio-economic scale.
While it may suit some people's agendas to think K women are snobby, Westerners are seen as LBHs etc.., assuming people have told the truth on here we can see a cross section of English teachers' wives/GFs reveals, if anything, an imbalance towards the upper end of the scale.
Feel free Paddycakes to dismiss this as an inaccurate internet poll but if you can't produce any other more reliable statistics you don't have much of a case. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll just say, if you can't speak your spouse's native language that well, there probably is a lot you won't be able to find out by just naturally browsing through their stuff. Stuff like random old papers in random envelopes you encounter while cleaning, or conversations they may have on the phone with friends, and family. The kinds of people they hang around, by just listening to the kinds of words/vocabulary they use. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Stuff like random old papers in random envelopes you encounter while cleaning |
You mean like ones from the bank that accidently fall open and show you how much she has in her secret account? |
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Chaucer
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:10 am Post subject: Cardboard |
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| Still waiting to hear about the top and bottom. |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
Feel free Paddycakes to dismiss this as an inaccurate internet poll but if you can't produce any other more reliable statistics you don't have much of a case. |
My friend and I were discussing this issue. Between us we have over 20 years experience in Korea.
I stand by my comments: Korean women who date foreigners/ go after foreigners, etc., are usually (but not always) on the social margins of society.
A lot of them are outsiders, and they often feel estranged from Korean society for whatever reason. Many feel that due to their circumstances a Korean man would not want them.
Nothing wrong with it, it's just what it is based on our personal experience.
Think about it this way: How many women in your home country desired to form relationships with transient, generally low paid foreigners who generally only planned to stick around for a year or two, and who couldn't speak their language?
There would be some, but for the women who have dating options such a guy would generally not even be in consideration unless they were just interested in a casual fling. |
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Qonny
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Paddycakes wrote: |
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
Feel free Paddycakes to dismiss this as an inaccurate internet poll but if you can't produce any other more reliable statistics you don't have much of a case. |
My friend and I were discussing this issue. Between us we have over 20 years experience in Korea.
I stand by my comments: Korean women who date foreigners/ go after foreigners, etc., are usually (but not always) on the social margins of society.
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I think this is where the problem lies. You are an old timer by the sounds of it, so when you met your wife here in the mid-90s or early 2000s, it was probably true that most of the Korean women going for Western guys were the outsider type.
But from what I've seen, and i think someone mentioned this a few posts ago, a lot of Korean women who have Western partners nowadays, are involved in the English/Esl/hagwon/education industry. Or they spent a lot of time studying/working overseas. From the small sample size in my mid size city, every Korean-Western relationship fits into the above criteria. |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Qonny wrote: |
| a lot of Korean women who have Western partners nowadays, are involved in the English/Esl/hagwon/education industry. Or they spent a lot of time studying/working overseas.. |
It was like that 10 years ago, too.
Working in a hogwan in Korean society is generally regarded as a low status job, even for Koreans.
Generally, our experience in Korea is that unless you're a famous, highly paid PhD at a big university, you're just a regular joe blow.
Some Korean public school teachers and uni lecturers think they're pretty big in their own minds, but most Koreans don't share that view.
Korean society is still quite tribal in many ways.
There's still a very real stigma against Korean women who marry or date foreigners.
For a woman with a real social standing to go against the tribe, she's putting her reputation at real risk.
And that's why most women who have a social standing to protect won't touch foreigners in Korea, among other reasons which I mentioned.
I don't like it either.... but it is what it is... |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:40 am Post subject: |
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There are a few points here.
Firstly there's probably a lot of difference in attitude nowadays compared to a few years ago and in Seoul and outside Seoul. Of my wife's friends, who are all Seoulites, one is dating a French guy, another married to a Canadian and the third single but is interested in foreign guys. None of them are on the margins of society as far as I can tell
Secondly as regards women in my country choosing a transient low-paid foreigner, the UK is more cosmopolitan and I really don't think people care about nationality in a mate. They might care about money when they're looking for a marriage partner but not for a boyfriend in their twenties. The same is probably true in Korea. Korean women in their early twenties are probably quite happy dating poorly paid foreigners in their twenties, as long as they see them as cool or fun to be with. The guys who stay here longer will
mostly be able to start earning the 4 million + which will be enough to satisfy a Korean woman looking for marriage potential.
Thirdly, IMO the language barrier and possible social stigma is more likely to be a problem for lower class girls than the middle classes as the latter are better educated in English and are usually brought up to be more open to new experiences. I do think it's true that the really rich tend to stick to their own and wouldn't be happy letting foreigners, or anyone who wasn't super rich into their clique. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Think about it this way: How many women in your home country desired to form relationships with transient, generally low paid foreigners who generally only planned to stick around for a year or two, and who couldn't speak their language?
There would be some, but for the women who have dating options such a guy would generally not even be in consideration unless they were just interested in a casual fling. |
I know a couple of people who have married people from other countries. When the other country is wealthier or at an equal financial level then it not that irregular. This is most common among the educated, or middle class. The lower classes tend to be more tribal and more likely to date someone from their local area.
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| Working in a hogwan in Korean society is generally regarded as a low status job, even for Koreans. |
No it's not. It's not considered the best job in the world but it's certainly not low status. Low status would be working as a cleaner. Slightly higher would be receptionists, and people working in shops etc. It is also common for hogwan workers to do private work, which raises their wages.
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| Generally, our experience in Korea is that unless you're a famous, highly paid PhD at a big university, you're just a regular joe blow. |
Exactly. You're not the lowest rung, you're not the highest. You're a regular joe.
| Quote: |
Korean society is still quite tribal in many ways.
There's still a very real stigma against Korean women who marry or date foreigners.
For a woman with a real social standing to go against the tribe, she's putting her reputation at real risk.
And that's why most women who have a social standing to protect won't touch foreigners in Korea, among other reasons which I mentioned. |
The stigma you mention is most prevalent among uneducated, lower class people, who have never traveled abroad, and cannot speak a second language.
Ed has mentioned the correlation between language skills and social class. I see no need to repeat what he has written.
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| I don't like it either.... but it is what it is... |
No, it isn't. You are stuck in the past and trying to find reasons that support your existing beliefs. But you are wrong. Most foreigners marry Koreans who are good at English, and have had exposure to foreign influences. Both of which are most common among the middle classes. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| You guys make it sound like every Korean women is stampeding, and tripping over themselves trying to marry a foreigner. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| You guys make it sound like every Korean women is stampeding, and tripping over themselves trying to marry a foreigner. |
No we're not. We're highlighting the fact that more Korean women are open to a relationship with a foreigner.
It is actually your earlier comment in this thread regarding "naturally browsing through their stuff" and finding "random old papers in random envelopes" that makes you sound suspicious and paranoid. |
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wooden nickels
Joined: 23 May 2010
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| You guys make it sound like every Korean women is stampeding, and tripping over themselves trying to marry a foreigner. |
No. Some are trying to say that every foreigner who dates or marries a Korean woman isn't dating or marrying from the bottom of economic or social status.
I believe the result is similar to back home. Like tends to marry like. But there tends to be a small economic/status sway upward and downward.
My situation_
Father-in-Law, retired doctor
Mother-in-Law, housewife
Sister-in-Law, doctor
Brother-in-Law, IT salaryman
Wife, former English teacher at public school, present academy owner/teacher
Sister-in-Law, housewife |
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fustiancorduroy
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by fustiancorduroy on Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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