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Canucks Fan
Joined: 28 Jan 2015
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 Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Back in Korea working after 14 year absence |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
So......whiskey and high-priced escorts. |
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LPKSA
Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| God, I went back to Korea this past summer after a five year absence and thought I was practically in a different country. Some things were the same, like the grunginess and hospitality of Jongno back alley markets in Seoul, overabundance of young 20 somethings in t-shirts with incomprehensible English syntax, hiking enthusiasts clapping their hands on mountain trails, but then there were severe changes like the skyline in Yeouido, more young people with tattoos (a LOT more) and the new orange taxis. What's up with that? Either way, the impression I gathered was that Korea has made tremendous strides and advancements towards becoming more open to the world... And a lot more Chinese are taking interest as well. Being called "foreigner" by a Chinese woman in Hongdae, in Chinese, and telling her that she was also a foreigner, in Chinese, and watching her jaw drop as her husband laughed out loud, was probably the greatest part of my trip there. |
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Canucks Fan
Joined: 28 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| LPKSA wrote: |
| God, I went back to Korea this past summer after a five year absence and thought I was practically in a different country. Some things were the same, like the grunginess and hospitality of Jongno back alley markets in Seoul, overabundance of young 20 somethings in t-shirts with incomprehensible English syntax, hiking enthusiasts clapping their hands on mountain trails, but then there were severe changes like the skyline in Yeouido, more young people with tattoos (a LOT more) and the new orange taxis. What's up with that? Either way, the impression I gathered was that Korea has made tremendous strides and advancements towards becoming more open to the world... And a lot more Chinese are taking interest as well. Being called "foreigner" by a Chinese woman in Hongdae, in Chinese, and telling her that she was also a foreigner, in Chinese, and watching her jaw drop as her husband laughed out loud, was probably the greatest part of my trip there. |
The tattoo thing too eh. I thought that was considered a medical procedure in Korea or did they change the law? I am not all that impressed with the tattoo fad(even though I have two), so it was a little disappointing. |
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IBD
Joined: 23 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| Any difference is mostly due to your being older, not your job description. |
No.
I went back to Korea last fall as part of a group to meet with KExim and the treatment I was given, even though as a lowly associate, was completely different than when I was an English teacher working in conglomerates 5 years ago. I’m not saying I was treated like a King but it was just different.
I found as an ESL teacher, I got the “you’re just another one of those” looks all too often. Whether that was me just being sensitive, I don't know.
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| Unless you're living by one of the military bases, they'll just assume you're a teacher anyway. |
True, but when you tell them you truthfully aren't, (like many ESL lifer guys do even though their video game editing job only gets them 30% of their income) they will take you more seriously. That has been my experience anyway.
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| Esl teachers with privates make more than you. |
I was also one of those guys teaching a huge number of privates paying 50k-75k an hour too. I definitely made more money because of the low tax rate. However,
1. I had no life and felt drained all the time
2. It was a constant pain to juggle the cancellations and get privates into a block.
3. Korean society didn’t really give me any respect even though I did my job well.
4. I actually make almost the same amount of money now than I did then in terms of take-home pay if I assign a value to my company pension plan/benefits (transit pass, extended health, 1k a year for rec spending, 4 weeks paid vacation). The difference is my current job has opportunities for advancement. In ESL there are none unless you want to get a doctorate and start the paper/publication chase. I also work 9-5. No evenings, no weekends, no snotty kids, no jerkoff salary men treating me like crap (some treated me well) because I’m a guy, in their eyes, that couldn’t get a job back home.
Canuck you were wise to get out when you did. For the majority of Korea career esl lifers, it is something they do because they have no choice. Very few would do it if they had other options (go back with the k-wife, retrain and hook up a job etc). There is a small minority that do it because they are passionate about it. These types set up their own study rooms, publish in universities etc. However, these cats aren’t the norm. |
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joelove
Joined: 12 May 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LPKSA wrote: |
| Being called "foreigner" by a Chinese woman in Hongdae, in Chinese, and telling her that she was also a foreigner, in Chinese, and watching her jaw drop as her husband laughed out loud, was probably the greatest part of my trip there. |
It's a nice thing to surprise people like that. I like that her husband got a kick from it too. Not quite understanding how anyone goes to another country and forgets they are from a different one. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| LOL at these guys needing to get approving looks from Korean adjosshis. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| IBD wrote: |
| Korean society didn’t really give me any respect even though I did my job well. |
Koreans are unable to respect foreigners, period. Projected inferiority complex. They respect other Koreans with jobs as street sweepers more than they do foreigners. Simple racism. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Canucks Fan,
I must say on my trips back I also had experiences that mirrored yours. Glad you enjoyed your trip back to Korea. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| IBD wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Esl teachers with privates make more than you. |
I was also one of those guys teaching a huge number of privates paying 50k-75k an hour too. I definitely made more money because of the low tax rate. However,
1. I had no life and felt drained all the time
2. It was a constant pain to juggle the cancellations and get privates into a block.
3. Korean society didn’t really give me any respect even though I did my job well.
4. I actually make almost the same amount of money now than I did then in terms of take-home pay if I assign a value to my company pension plan/benefits (transit pass, extended health, 1k a year for rec spending, 4 weeks paid vacation). The difference is my current job has opportunities for advancement. In ESL there are none unless you want to get a doctorate and start the paper/publication chase. I also work 9-5. No evenings, no weekends, no snotty kids, no jerkoff salary men treating me like crap (some treated me well) because I’m a guy, in their eyes, that couldn’t get a job back home. |
This post is really good, and I agree with some of the reasons I left - especially #3. I was bothered to raise my son in a society that viewed his father so negatively.
But I wanted to point out the other side of your #4. Although you might be making the same, and have all sorts of benefits I think you're in a (small?) minority. Just off the top of my head, there's a guy working the check-out of my local grocery who told my wife he'd been in Korea a few years ago. I know two people that were in my Korean city who now work as personal trainers in Canadian health clubs. I know another who works at a car wash. I know two that continue to teach ESL (one in Canada, one in Australia), I'd assume for less money. I know one guy that started his own shoe repair business (I guess that's not bad, but I don't think he's raking it in). Actually I don't know of any one that is doing really well in Canada after returning - their might be some but I don't know any for sure. But I know a lot that aren't. |
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IBD
Joined: 23 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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| But I wanted to point out the other side of your #4. Although you might be making the same, and have all sorts of benefits I think you're in a (small?) minority. Just off the top of my head, there's a guy working the check-out of my local grocery who told my wife he'd been in Korea a few years ago. I know two people that were in my Korean city who now work as personal trainers in Canadian health clubs. I know another who works at a car wash. I know two that continue to teach ESL (one in Canada, one in Australia), I'd assume for less money. I know one guy that started his own shoe repair business (I guess that's not bad, but I don't think he's raking it in). Actually I don't know of any one that is doing really well in Canada after returning - their might be some but I don't know any for sure. But I know a lot that aren't. |
Point taken. I know it is tough as I have friends in similar situations. For them, it has been nothing but low paying back-office jobs. My job is ok, but it isn't anything spectacular when I look at my take-home pay. Taxes really hurt.
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| Koreans are unable to respect foreigners, period. Projected inferiority complex. They respect other Koreans with jobs as street sweepers more than they do foreigners. Simple racism. |
I'd disagree. In my experience, Koreans are unable to respect someone if a lower socio-economic class. The past prejudices against Africans, South East Asians etc. is rooted in their perception as those countries being poor. The flip-side of this was being white automatically meant rich. Although a lot hasn't really changed in terms of their views of non whites (sadly) their views of whites has changed a lot partly because of the ass hattery of English teachers in their country over the past 30 years. Fair or unfair, if you are an English teacher in Korea, you won't be getting much respect from Korean society in general. If you aren't an English teacher and say, a international lawyer, diplomat, banker, engineer or whatever, the respect is there.
Just try and get a different job back home, get expatriated to Korea and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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| LOL at these guys needing to get approving looks from Korean adjosshis. |
If this was directed at me, whatever makes you sleep at night mate.
Have fun doing the same job a 22 year old hipster can take from you, until you retire. |
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Canucks Fan
Joined: 28 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
But I wanted to point out the other side of your #4. Although you might be making the same, and have all sorts of benefits I think you're in a (small?) minority. Just off the top of my head, there's a guy working the check-out of my local grocery who told my wife he'd been in Korea a few years ago. I know two people that were in my Korean city who now work as personal trainers in Canadian health clubs. I know another who works at a car wash. I know two that continue to teach ESL (one in Canada, one in Australia), I'd assume for less money. I know one guy that started his own shoe repair business (I guess that's not bad, but I don't think he's raking it in). Actually I don't know of any one that is doing really well in Canada after returning - their might be some but I don't know any for sure. But I know a lot that aren't. |
I agree Who's Your Daddy, most do have a very difficult time living a comfortable lifestyle upon return from Korea. If we are honest, this is because their education choices are not conducive to employment. An MA in film studies is a fine hobby, but the chances of employers beating down your door with job offers are pretty slim. I had an engineering technology diploma when I left Korea and I had more offers than I could even respond to and I was only testing the water. I wasn't interested though because I decided to go to university and become a professional engineer.
I am not trying to look down my nose at anyone, but esler's need to be more realistic about what their education and skills are worth in the marketplace. It's more than possible to earn over $200k/annum with great perks like a possible expat posting, but it can only be done with the correct combination of education and experience.
I wish anyone transitioning to a post ESL life the very best of luck.  |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Canucks Fan wrote: |
| Who's Your Daddy? wrote: |
But I wanted to point out the other side of your #4. Although you might be making the same, and have all sorts of benefits I think you're in a (small?) minority. Just off the top of my head, there's a guy working the check-out of my local grocery who told my wife he'd been in Korea a few years ago. I know two people that were in my Korean city who now work as personal trainers in Canadian health clubs. I know another who works at a car wash. I know two that continue to teach ESL (one in Canada, one in Australia), I'd assume for less money. I know one guy that started his own shoe repair business (I guess that's not bad, but I don't think he's raking it in). Actually I don't know of any one that is doing really well in Canada after returning - their might be some but I don't know any for sure. But I know a lot that aren't. |
I agree Who's Your Daddy, most do have a very difficult time living a comfortable lifestyle upon return from Korea. If we are honest, this is because their education choices are not conducive to employment. An MA in film studies is a fine hobby, but the chances of employers beating down your door with job offers are pretty slim. I had an engineering technology diploma when I left Korea and I had more offers than I could even respond to and I was only testing the water. I wasn't interested though because I decided to go to university and become a professional engineer.
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Engineering is one of the most useful and in-demand professions out there. Most countries will give residence to such people I believe. You can't really go wrong, there is a shortage of them.
Probably because its such a boring field to be in. Seriously, I doubt most people are at all interested in testing machine parts. Most people who go into engineering do so because their parents push them into it, in the same way every mother wants her boy to be a doctor.
But the sort of people who take up esl usually have a liberal arts background. They're simply not interested in technology in the first place. For someone with an engineering diploma to even think about esl let alone even dabble in it must be quite rare. Completely different type of person. |
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Canucks Fan
Joined: 28 Jan 2015
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Engineering is one of the most useful and in-demand professions out there. Most countries will give residence to such people I believe. You can't really go wrong, there is a shortage of them.
Probably because its such a boring field to be in. Seriously, I doubt most people are at all interested in testing machine parts. Most people who go into engineering do so because their parents push them into it, in the same way every mother wants her boy to be a doctor.
But the sort of people who take up esl usually have a liberal arts background. They're simply not interested in technology in the first place. For someone with an engineering diploma to even think about esl let alone even dabble in it must be quite rare. Completely different type of person. |
I have been on both sides of the fence and I personally found teaching English to be boring and banal. Again, I don't mean to judge anyone who has made it their calling, but it really didn't offer much of a challenge to me anyway. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Canucks Fan wrote: |
| Chaparrastique wrote: |
Engineering is one of the most useful and in-demand professions out there. Most countries will give residence to such people I believe. You can't really go wrong, there is a shortage of them.
Probably because its such a boring field to be in. Seriously, I doubt most people are at all interested in testing machine parts. Most people who go into engineering do so because their parents push them into it, in the same way every mother wants her boy to be a doctor.
But the sort of people who take up esl usually have a liberal arts background. They're simply not interested in technology in the first place. For someone with an engineering diploma to even think about esl let alone even dabble in it must be quite rare. Completely different type of person. |
I have been on both sides of the fence and I personally found teaching English to be boring and banal. Again, I don't mean to judge anyone who has made it their calling, but it really didn't offer much of a challenge to me anyway. |
One thing with Engineering it's very much still an all boys club. If you think Korea is bad with sexism, engineering is at least on par, if not worse, generally it's over 90% male. It isn't easy for a girl to work long in Engineering, and of the few that actually manage to get their degree, even fewer work that long in the field. The same can be said for most Tech, or Science related fields.
A huge chunk of Engineers would probably be hanging out in mom's basement on the computer all day if it weren't for their jobs. And because of the tech bust 15 years ago, I be a lot are doing exactly that now. Also, with the prices of oil dropping, chemical engineers might be in job trouble soon too.
If any of you guys ever watched Misaeng, and see how they treated the women on the show, that's very similar of what I saw working in Engineering in Canada in the early 2000's. Not as blatant, but the subtle signals were there. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:32 am Post subject: |
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LOL at these guys needing to get approving looks from Korean adjosshis.
If this was directed at me, whatever makes you sleep at night mate.
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You don't agree that being concerned about whether or not you fit into the right income bracket to impress a Korean adjosshi is a slightly derisible activity?
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Have fun doing the same job a 22 year old hipster can take from you, until you retire. |
Ah I see, you're one of these people who likes to make themselves feel better by looking down on people who you think (erroneously in this case) do the same jobs that they used to. Shown your true colors there haven't you? Not just to me but everyone else on here - most of whom are doing the job you so disparage. I assume that feeling of superiority you get is the main reason why you still visit this site.
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