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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Canucks Fan
Joined: 28 Jan 2015
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:35 am Post subject: |
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jvalmer wrote: |
One thing with Engineering it's very much still an all boys club. If you think Korea is bad with sexism, engineering is at least on par, if not worse, generally it's over 90% male. It isn't easy for a girl to work long in Engineering, and of the few that actually manage to get their degree, even fewer work that long in the field. The same can be said for most Tech, or Science related fields.
A huge chunk of Engineers would probably be hanging out in mom's basement on the computer all day if it weren't for their jobs. And because of the tech bust 15 years ago, I be a lot are doing exactly that now. Also, with the prices of oil dropping, chemical engineers might be in job trouble soon too.
If any of you guys ever watched Misaeng, and see how they treated the women on the show, that's very similar of what I saw working in Engineering in Canada in the early 2000's. Not as blatant, but the subtle signals were there. |
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not trolling. I don't know where you are getting this information, but nothing could be further from the truth. While it is true that a small percentage of women decide to pursue it as a career, they don't face the systemic discrimination. The women I know who are professional engineers have great careers and even as they get older. It's not like ESL where they want a young pretty blonde girl. It's your skills not your face that counts. Again, you haven't been on both sides of the fence if you seriously believe what you just wrote.
As for it being an occupation in decline, I don't think anyone seriously believes that. Depending on the engineering discipline, they are as in demand as health care professionals and often withhigher starting salaries. From what I have seen it is someone with a degree in transgender studies that would be more likely to sponge off of mom and dad if not for ESL in Asia.
According to StasCanada these are the highest paying jobs for new grads.
Dentist: +- $90,000
Petroleum Engineer: +- $86,220
Data security analyst: +- $83,250
Web site developer and user experience designer: +- $80,000
Mobile applications developers: +- $72,500
Financial Controller: +- $70,000
Lawyer: +- $60,000
Accountant: +- $58,750
Nurse: +- $55,000
Business Administration/Management +- $45,000
Based on US stats, these are the lowest.
nding a job at the end of it, there are some programs to avoid. Based on US statistics that I think will generally apply here as well (I’m still looking for the equivalent Canadian data), here are ten fields that hiring managers just aren’t looking for on resumes right now.
Architecture
Latin
Music therapy
Theology
English Literature
Social Sciences
American Studies / Canadian Studies (I mentioned that this list was based on US data. However, we can assume that Canadian Studies would be equally frowned upon, because the rationale is that as the workplace becomes more diverse, employers are looking for people educated with a broader cultural perspective than just studying their local national culture.)
Puppetry (Apparently this is an actual degree that some people choose to study. I think it could be an equivalent stand in for most theatre and performing arts degrees.)
Poetry
Art History |
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jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Engineering was once known for virtually 100% employment maybe 10 years ago. Now it's like 75%. There are a lot of un/underemployed engineers. Yes STEM fields are a better bet than most other fields for employment, but it is no longer a 100% thing these days.
As for women, I used to be oblivious to the sexism, and as guys we tend not to notice it. But when I think back, it was there. The women that do stay in the field, and go up the ranks are extremely determined, while a guy doesn't have to be as hard-working. |
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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jvalmer wrote: |
The women that do stay in the field, and go up the ranks are extremely determined, while a guy doesn't have to be as hard-working. |
People often make this comment, but it just doesn't seem to have too much truth value.
Plus, some people are just better at some things than others. Regardless of how hard they seem to be working. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Back in Korea working after 14 year absence |
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Canucks Fan wrote: |
Still, some things haven't changed like the friendliness of Koreans. |
LOL. |
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happyinhenan
Joined: 01 Feb 2015
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:27 am Post subject: |
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Canucks Fan wrote: |
I am not trying to look down my nose at anyone, but esler's need to be more realistic about what their education and skills are worth in the marketplace. It's more than possible to earn over $200k/annum with great perks like a possible expat posting, but it can only be done with the correct combination of education and experience.
I wish anyone transitioning to a post ESL life the very best of luck.  |
You shouldn't look down your nose at anyone, actually my uncle is (or was) senior management at a rather well known American engineering firm and when I made it known I was going to Korea, he was the one who told me what a pain they were to negotiate with. Sounds like to me you fetch and carry tea and noodles for the senior members of your team and are not involved in any negotiations with Korean management teams. So I imagine you do get some kind of superficial respect as you have no place at the table.
He used to go to Korea all the time - he didn't like Korea at all, or more accurately he didn't like negotiating with Koreans, he found them to be a pain. Maybe when you become senior management and are actually negotiating with senior members of Korail (for example) then maybe you will sing a different tune about how nice they treat you based on your profession.
This is going to sound like a troll post but it's true - I have a cousin who works for NASA in Houston, four cousins who are doctors, three cousins who are engineers, one is a chemist (one of them followed his father - the guy who hates Korea - to Imperial College in London) and one of my uncles is a world famous geologist.
Oh yeah, my sister works for Jeremy Kyle's 'aftercare team' (She has a masters degree in counselling and that is what you need to work for Jezza).
And if you don't believe any of the above, I don't give a shit, it doesn't make it any less true.
Anyway, none of the above have ever looked down on me for teaching English abroad, they actually say things like 'I could never live in the middle of China' and suchlike and knowing the people concerned, I don't think they would look down on anyone based on a choice of career or job - basically, if you anyone is earning money honestly or with dignity - why should anyone look down on anyone else.
Basically, the real winners in life look down on us all and laugh - if you have to get up in the morning to an alarm clock - you aren't one of life's winners. None of us know any winners, we all have a little treadmill we all have to run on, some have treadmills made of gold, some have treadmills next to the beach or a mountain - but if any of us fall off that treadmill, then we are in trouble. Everything that we have earned can be took away.
What you can be is happy, if you live in Korea and teach at a hagwon and enjoy your life then you are doing better than 90% of the world.
Sometimes - you get these halfwits like 'Canucks Fan' who come on to tell you how his life is brilliant now he has left ESL and how you all have it crap but my uncle's life was full of stress which turned his hair greyer than a pinstripe. Sounds like 'Canucks Fan' is a junior team member on his trips to Korea and has nothing really worth bragging about because he hasn't any dealings with the people that matter.
So, that is my first post on here, if your self worth and respect is calculated by what some Korean who you don't know or particularly care about thinks about you, then you can be king of the world and will never be happy, I think it was George Clooney who said that when he was out - if he had a dollar for everytime someone (usually other men) would call him a tosser or worse - he would be a trillionaire.  |
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DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Have fun doing the same job a 22 year old hipster can take from you, until you retire. |
Man would I be impressed if a 22 year old hipster could steal a job away from someone with 5 years experience, a masters, and an F-6 visa!
I don't think many of the teachers that have been here a few years are fighting for 2.1 at Kim's English Club.
In regards to retiring, I should be able to do that as early as 40.
another 10 years of saving should buy us 40 years in Thailand! |
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DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:44 am Post subject: |
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jvalmer wrote: |
Canucks Fan wrote: |
Chaparrastique wrote: |
Engineering is one of the most useful and in-demand professions out there. Most countries will give residence to such people I believe. You can't really go wrong, there is a shortage of them.
Probably because its such a boring field to be in. Seriously, I doubt most people are at all interested in testing machine parts. Most people who go into engineering do so because their parents push them into it, in the same way every mother wants her boy to be a doctor.
But the sort of people who take up esl usually have a liberal arts background. They're simply not interested in technology in the first place. For someone with an engineering diploma to even think about esl let alone even dabble in it must be quite rare. Completely different type of person. |
I have been on both sides of the fence and I personally found teaching English to be boring and banal. Again, I don't mean to judge anyone who has made it their calling, but it really didn't offer much of a challenge to me anyway. |
One thing with Engineering it's very much still an all boys club. If you think Korea is bad with sexism, engineering is at least on par, if not worse, generally it's over 90% male. It isn't easy for a girl to work long in Engineering, and of the few that actually manage to get their degree, even fewer work that long in the field. The same can be said for most Tech, or Science related fields.
A huge chunk of Engineers would probably be hanging out in mom's basement on the computer all day if it weren't for their jobs. And because of the tech bust 15 years ago, I be a lot are doing exactly that now. Also, with the prices of oil dropping, chemical engineers might be in job trouble soon too.
If any of you guys ever watched Misaeng, and see how they treated the women on the show, that's very similar of what I saw working in Engineering in Canada in the early 2000's. Not as blatant, but the subtle signals were there. |
To be fair, all the interns were treated poorly. The men didn't get the 'women can't do anything right' attitude though |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="IBD"]
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Koreans are unable to respect foreigners, period. Projected inferiority complex. They respect other Koreans with jobs as street sweepers more than they do foreigners. Simple racism. |
I'd disagree. In my experience, Koreans are unable to respect someone if a lower socio-economic class. . |
I know doctors, professors with PhD's, and a couple of other professional people here who complain they don't get respect from Koreans. Sure, if they want something from you, then suddenly they come out with their over-the-top niceness and charm. The other 99% of the time, they're bitchier than a beauty pageant changing room.
Many Koreans (not all) don't want to respect others. In a society utterly obsessed with hierarchy and social competition, almost every interraction with these type of people is designed to try and give them a step-up at your expense.
Its subtle, but a lot of Koreans are armed with a host of almost imperceptible passive-agressive barbs that are designed to either get under your skin, upset you, insult you, emotionally knock you off-balance, or devalue you in the eyes of others. Its no wonder they're often miserable: they can't live and let live. They lie awake at night thinking of spiteful little ways to make those around them feel miserable as well.
Being good at your job, or excelling at anything- will only make it worse. Then you become a target for jealous (less-able) people who will use politics to try to undermine, sabotage or devalue what you do because they feel threatened by your competence. Their deep-seated inferiority complex does not allow them to freely appreciate or genuinely compliment others. To a Korean, being for someone else = a denial of their own self.They're too busy trying to self-aggrandize to fill that inner void. |
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krnpowr
Joined: 08 Dec 2011 Location: Midwest, USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Chaparrastique"]
IBD wrote: |
Quote: |
Quote: |
Koreans are unable to respect foreigners, period. Projected inferiority complex. They respect other Koreans with jobs as street sweepers more than they do foreigners. Simple racism. |
I'd disagree. In my experience, Koreans are unable to respect someone if a lower socio-economic class. . |
I know doctors, professors with PhD's, and a couple of other professional people here who complain they don't get respect from Koreans. Sure, if they want something from you, then suddenly they come out with their over-the-top niceness and charm. The other 99% of the time, they're bitchier than a beauty pageant changing room.
Many Koreans (not all) don't want to respect others. In a society utterly obsessed with hierarchy and social competition, almost every interraction with these type of people is designed to try and give them a step-up at your expense.
Its subtle, but a lot of Koreans are armed with a host of almost imperceptible passive-agressive barbs that are designed to either get under your skin, upset you, insult you, emotionally knock you off-balance, or devalue you in the eyes of others. Its no wonder they're often miserable: they can't live and let live. They lie awake at night thinking of spiteful little ways to make those around them feel miserable as well.
Being good at your job, or excelling at anything- will only make it worse. Then you become a target for jealous (less-able) people who will use politics to try to undermine, sabotage or devalue what you do because they feel threatened by your competence. Their deep-seated inferiority complex does not allow them to freely appreciate or genuinely compliment others. To a Korean, being for someone else = a denial of their own self.They're too busy trying to self-aggrandize to fill that inner void. |
Your vitriol wreaks of bitterness. I think you need a long vacation. Or better yet, a permanent change in venues. |
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Qonny
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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krnpowr wrote: |
Your vitriol wreaks of bitterness. I think you need a long vacation. Or better yet, a permanent change in venues. |
What's up Krnpowr?
I have a question. Is the "Krn" in your name abbreviated "Korean"?
Or is abbreviated "Korn"? Remember Korn? That 90s nu-metal band. ARE YOU READYYY!! I wonder what happened to them? Good times.
If your name is abbreviated "Korean Power" that's kind of funny. Do you say that when you are at the gym and trying squeeze out one last rep.
"I can do this. Come on Koooreean Poooower!!!!!!"
Anyway thanks for reading. Have a good day. |
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Paddycakes
Joined: 05 May 2003 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Chaparrastique"]
IBD wrote: |
Quote: |
Quote: |
Koreans are unable to respect foreigners, period. Projected inferiority complex. They respect other Koreans with jobs as street sweepers more than they do foreigners. Simple racism. |
I'd disagree. In my experience, Koreans are unable to respect someone if a lower socio-economic class. . |
I know doctors, professors with PhD's, and a couple of other professional people here who complain they don't get respect from Koreans. Sure, if they want something from you, then suddenly they come out with their over-the-top niceness and charm. The other 99% of the time, they're bitchier than a beauty pageant changing room.
Many Koreans (not all) don't want to respect others. In a society utterly obsessed with hierarchy and social competition, almost every interraction with these type of people is designed to try and give them a step-up at your expense.
Its subtle, but a lot of Koreans are armed with a host of almost imperceptible passive-agressive barbs that are designed to either get under your skin, upset you, insult you, emotionally knock you off-balance, or devalue you in the eyes of others. Its no wonder they're often miserable: they can't live and let live. They lie awake at night thinking of spiteful little ways to make those around them feel miserable as well.
Being good at your job, or excelling at anything- will only make it worse. Then you become a target for jealous (less-able) people who will use politics to try to undermine, sabotage or devalue what you do because they feel threatened by your competence. Their deep-seated inferiority complex does not allow them to freely appreciate or genuinely compliment others. To a Korean, being for someone else = a denial of their own self.They're too busy trying to self-aggrandize to fill that inner void. |
I've known a lot of Westerners who could be described that way, too.
There are A-holes in every culture. It's not unique to Korea. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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krnpowr wrote: |
Your vitriol wreaks of bitterness. |
Fault does not lie with the victim, but the perpetrator.
An opening logic fail on your part. You must be Korean- or at least have korean ancestry.
Paddycakes wrote: |
There are A-holes in every culture. It's not unique to Korea. |
Thats true. However due to history and culture, nations possess certain psychological profiles -which may be dominated by particular tendencies. |
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GJoeM
Joined: 05 Oct 2012
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Well said Chapparastique, and I quote, " Sure, if they want something from you, then suddenly they come out with their over-the-top niceness and charm. The other 99% of the time, they're bitchier than a beauty pageant changing room. Many Koreans ... don't want to respect others. In a society utterly obsessed with hierarchy and social competition, almost every interraction with these type of people is designed to try and give them a step-up at your expense.
Its subtle, but a lot of Koreans are armed with a host of almost imperceptible passive-agressive barbs that are designed to either get under your skin, upset you, insult you, emotionally knock you off-balance, or devalue you in the eyes of others. Its no wonder they're often miserable: they can't live and let live. They lie awake at night thinking of spiteful little ways to make those around them feel miserable as well.
Being good at your job, or excelling at anything- will only make it worse. Then you become a target for jealous (less-able) people who will use politics to try to undermine, sabotage or devalue what you do because they feel threatened by your competence. Their deep-seated inferiority complex does not allow them to freely appreciate or genuinely compliment others. To a Korean, being for someone else = a denial of their own self.They're too busy trying to self-aggrandize to fill that inner void."
And the rest, is silence...
That is life here, in a nutshell...perfectly truthfully observed...
Korea is a deeply troubled and unhappy country. |
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krnpowr
Joined: 08 Dec 2011 Location: Midwest, USA
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Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Qonny wrote: |
krnpowr wrote: |
Your vitriol wreaks of bitterness. I think you need a long vacation. Or better yet, a permanent change in venues. |
Do you say that when you are at the gym and trying squeeze out one last rep.
"I can do this. Come on Koooreean Poooower!!!!!!"
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No, when I'm on the can squeezing out a turd. |
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valium kilmer
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:20 am Post subject: |
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Chaparrastique wrote: |
Korea - I just hate Korea.
Nothing to add to the conversation but derail it so people give me attention. |
Is there a way to block this tool?
(I generally don't engage in this forum as I've no interest in wading through all the negativity, but I was enjoying this quite interesting, largely positive thread.) |
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