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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| You don't have to stare at someone to see what they're up to. That's another falsehood you're trying to pass as fact. |
Actually atwood, you do. You may THINK you know what someone is doing on their phone, but you have no way of actually knowing until you look at their screen. That involves staring and probably invading their privacy. Or in your case it could be guessing and believing that your guess is right without some sort of verification because you are the magical atwood and you must be right. "I can just tell" is not a valid explanation. I've heard a lot of people claim those kinds of abilities. The overwhelming majority are wrong as often as they are right. It's like "psychic" abilities.
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| Come on, you know what you posted. Why don't you just admit it and move on? Or you can keep lying about it, which, for some reason, really seems to float your boat, gilligan. |
I do know what I posted. Go find the link if you are so sure. And atwood, you seem to think I've claimed to be a pilot. For someone who thinks they are so sure about what I've posted and thinks they have such an eye for detail that they can glance at someone and know what they're doing on their phone, you sure seem to have a trouble with precision when it comes to what I've written int he past.
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| I grew up in the US of A. Nothing magical about it, but also nothing as strange as growing up on a farm with folks prosperous enough to fly as an avocation and then suddenly upping stakes, moving to a ghetto and slinging pizzas for a living. |
Where did you grow up?
Like I said, I grew up in SE Michigan. My parents had a hobby farm. It was about 15 minutes drive outside of the city limits, but was still in the township so I qualified for the schools. My parents' hobbies were not only raising livestock, but flying also, as well as other things. While certainly not usual, there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans who farm in some form or another, and tens of thousands who are private pilots. Also, many of them live within driving distance of both rural areas and cities. When I went to college I lived in both the suburbs and in a crummy neighborhood. It's called paying your own rent and living with a few roomates while slinging pizzas and finishing college. This isn't some magical concept.
You act like this is some sort of great impossibility. You could substitute my father's hobby of flying for something like speedboats or motorcycles and it would apply to hundreds of thousands of other people. A small, homebuilt plane is not some massive luxury. You can get one for the price of a new domestic car. They run on 93 octane premium gasoline with a 165hp engine.
I feel kind of bad. You've invested so much into this idea that I'm making up my life story. I'm not. If you're wrong about this, what else are you wrong about? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
Korea's current mainstream parties are closer in policies to the "rabid xenophobia" parties you mentioned.
Immigration
Tight immigration, limited humanitarian immigration, limiting family unification to proven direct relatives only, requiring means of subsistence from the immigrant, deporting immigrants guilty of serious or recurrent crimes.
All of which already exist in Korea.
Law and Order
Tougher punishment, reintroduction of death penalty.
Korea already has the death penalty.
Social
Opposing same sex marriage, same sex adoption, and generally not liking homosexuals.
Same as Korea.
Economy
Protectionism over globalization.
Korea already does this.
Seems to me that the far right minority parties in Europe are pretty much the standard in Korea. |
But fear of immigration is not their raison d'etre. In fact there have been rumblings in certain quarters about Korean potentially needing to accept immigrants to deal with the falling birth rate. Jasmine W. Lee, who has tried to call attention to immigrant issues, is a member of the ruling party. Someone with her views and message would be booted out of those far-right parties. As more and more children are born to a non-Korean parent, you are going to see those issues rise in importance and the parties try and court those voters. You already see it in school board issues at the local level.
As far as the death penalty goes, who knows how it will go. Regardless it seems that Koreans only want it for the most heinous crimes, not as a standard punishment. Even liberals can be in favor of protectionism because that can be as much about securing manufacturing jobs as it is about xenophobia.
And as far as tougher punishment on crime, that seems to be a common refrain here in regards to the Korean police. Does that mean our views are the same as far-right parties? |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
Korea's current mainstream parties are closer in policies to the "rabid xenophobia" parties you mentioned.
Immigration
Tight immigration, limited humanitarian immigration, limiting family unification to proven direct relatives only, requiring means of subsistence from the immigrant, deporting immigrants guilty of serious or recurrent crimes.
All of which already exist in Korea.
Law and Order
Tougher punishment, reintroduction of death penalty.
Korea already has the death penalty.
Social
Opposing same sex marriage, same sex adoption, and generally not liking homosexuals.
Same as Korea.
Economy
Protectionism over globalization.
Korea already does this.
Seems to me that the far right minority parties in Europe are pretty much the standard in Korea. |
But fear of immigration is not their raison d'etre. In fact there have been rumblings in certain quarters about Korean potentially needing to accept immigrants to deal with the falling birth rate. Jasmine W. Lee, who has tried to call attention to immigrant issues, is a member of the ruling party. Someone with her views and message would be booted out of those far-right parties. As more and more children are born to a non-Korean parent, you are going to see those issues rise in importance and the parties try and court those voters. You already see it in school board issues at the local level.
As far as the death penalty goes, who knows how it will go. Regardless it seems that Koreans only want it for the most heinous crimes, not as a standard punishment. Even liberals can be in favor of protectionism because that can be as much about securing manufacturing jobs as it is about xenophobia.
And as far as tougher punishment on crime, that seems to be a common refrain here in regards to the Korean police. Does that mean our views are the same as far-right parties? |
You've said nothing that refutes the fact that Korea's current policies mirror the desires of the far right parties who you described as, and therefore in turn accepted that current Korean policies are also, suffering from "rabid xenophobia".
In Korea lawmakers proposed an anti-racism bill but later scrapped the plan in the face of strong opposition from conservative Christian groups. That's beyond the scope of even the far right parties you mentioned. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
You've said nothing that refutes the fact that Korea's current policies mirror the desires of the far right parties who you described as, and therefore in turn accepted that current Korean policies are also, suffering from "rabid xenophobia".
In Korea lawmakers proposed an anti-racism bill but later scrapped the plan in the face of strong opposition from conservative Christian groups. That's beyond the scope of even the far right parties you mentioned. |
The key is found in the phrase"raison d'etre". While they may share SOME positions with far-right groups, some of those positions are also shared with some center-right (tough on crime, conservative social values) and even far-left groups (protectionism). What is important though is that anti-immigration is not at the center of their platform and not why people join the party. In fact, those parties seem to have a "big tent" and support a variety of views on immigration, otherwise Jasmine Lee would have been booted from Saenuri. Someone with her policies would have been booted from Golden Dawn, Freedom Party, National Front, etc. Therefore they are not the same.
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| limited humanitarian immigration, limiting family unification to proven direct relatives only, requiring means of subsistence from the immigrant, deporting immigrants guilty of serious or recurrent crimes. |
As far as humanitarian immigration, S. Korea faces the constant prospect of a sudden influx of 27 million refugees pouring in from the North. It might be wise to deal with things one step at a time. Also, how are those other policies xenophobic? Those are pretty standard procedures around the globe.
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| In Korea lawmakers proposed an anti-racism bill but later scrapped the plan in the face of strong opposition from conservative Christian groups. That's beyond the scope of even the far right parties you mentioned. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that in response to legal recognition of homosexuals? I think that is a separate issue. I'll freely concede that S. Korea lags far behind on homosexual rights and views towards them. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
You've said nothing that refutes the fact that Korea's current policies mirror the desires of the far right parties who you described as, and therefore in turn accepted that current Korean policies are also, suffering from "rabid xenophobia".
In Korea lawmakers proposed an anti-racism bill but later scrapped the plan in the face of strong opposition from conservative Christian groups. That's beyond the scope of even the far right parties you mentioned. |
The key is found in the phrase"raison d'etre". While they may share SOME positions with far-right groups, some of those positions are also shared with some center-right (tough on crime, conservative social values) and even far-left groups (protectionism). What is important though is that anti-immigration is not at the center of their platform and not why people join the party. In fact, those parties seem to have a "big tent" and support a variety of views on immigration, otherwise Jasmine Lee would have been booted from Saenuri. Someone with her policies would have been booted from Golden Dawn, Freedom Party, National Front, etc. Therefore they are not the same.
| Quote: |
| limited humanitarian immigration, limiting family unification to proven direct relatives only, requiring means of subsistence from the immigrant, deporting immigrants guilty of serious or recurrent crimes. |
As far as humanitarian immigration, S. Korea faces the constant prospect of a sudden influx of 27 million refugees pouring in from the North. It might be wise to deal with things one step at a time. Also, how are those other policies xenophobic? Those are pretty standard procedures around the globe.
| Quote: |
| In Korea lawmakers proposed an anti-racism bill but later scrapped the plan in the face of strong opposition from conservative Christian groups. That's beyond the scope of even the far right parties you mentioned. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that in response to legal recognition of homosexuals? I think that is a separate issue. I'll freely concede that S. Korea lags far behind on homosexual rights and views towards them. |
Complete and utter hogwash. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
As far as humanitarian immigration, S. Korea faces the constant prospect of a sudden influx of 27 million refugees pouring in from the North. It might be wise to deal with things one step at a time. Also, how are those other policies xenophobic? Those are pretty standard procedures around the globe.
Complete and utter hogwash.[/b] |
If they reunify, those 27 million North Koreans are going to be in need of massive social support services akin to refugees. This is why they budget money for it and put it in a fund.
How exactly is this hogwash? |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
As far as humanitarian immigration, S. Korea faces the constant prospect of a sudden influx of 27 million refugees pouring in from the North. It might be wise to deal with things one step at a time. Also, how are those other policies xenophobic? Those are pretty standard procedures around the globe.
Complete and utter hogwash.[/b] |
If they reunify, those 27 million North Koreans are going to be in need of massive social support services akin to refugees. This is why they budget money for it and put it in a fund.
How exactly is this hogwash? |
aTwood here just likes arguing with you is all. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
You've said nothing that refutes the fact that Korea's current policies mirror the desires of the far right parties who you described as, and therefore in turn accepted that current Korean policies are also, suffering from "rabid xenophobia".
In Korea lawmakers proposed an anti-racism bill but later scrapped the plan in the face of strong opposition from conservative Christian groups. That's beyond the scope of even the far right parties you mentioned. |
The key is found in the phrase"raison d'etre". While they may share SOME positions with far-right groups, some of those positions are also shared with some center-right (tough on crime, conservative social values) and even far-left groups (protectionism). What is important though is that anti-immigration is not at the center of their platform and not why people join the party. In fact, those parties seem to have a "big tent" and support a variety of views on immigration, otherwise Jasmine Lee would have been booted from Saenuri. Someone with her policies would have been booted from Golden Dawn, Freedom Party, National Front, etc. Therefore they are not the same.
| Quote: |
| limited humanitarian immigration, limiting family unification to proven direct relatives only, requiring means of subsistence from the immigrant, deporting immigrants guilty of serious or recurrent crimes. |
As far as humanitarian immigration, S. Korea faces the constant prospect of a sudden influx of 27 million refugees pouring in from the North. It might be wise to deal with things one step at a time. Also, how are those other policies xenophobic? Those are pretty standard procedures around the globe.
| Quote: |
| In Korea lawmakers proposed an anti-racism bill but later scrapped the plan in the face of strong opposition from conservative Christian groups. That's beyond the scope of even the far right parties you mentioned. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that in response to legal recognition of homosexuals? I think that is a separate issue. I'll freely concede that S. Korea lags far behind on homosexual rights and views towards them. |
You are way off.
The policies of the Korean parties align far closer to the far right parties you mentioned. I've already explained why. You've done nothing to refute that point.
All of the far right parties you mentioned are in countries who are in the EU. If you want to make believe about 27 million refugees pouring into South Korea then with the free movement of people in the EU these countries face the constant prospect of the whole of the EU moving into their country.
And you were wrong about the anti racism bill. It was in response to the Indian lad who was abused on a bus. It also included an anti gay aspect, but it was not the sole reason for its introduction.
You've already conceded the last point on Korea's shocking attitude toward homosexual rights, and you're replies have basically done nothing to prove my points wrong.
If this was a boxing match it would have been called a couple of posts back. Therefore it's not worth my time continuing to argue with someone who is clearly biased and self delusional, especially when my points have already shown your posts to be desperate fanciful nonsense. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| All of the far right parties you mentioned are in countries who are in the EU. If you want to make believe about 27 million refugees pouring into South Korea then with the free movement of people in the EU these countries face the constant prospect of the whole of the EU moving into their country. |
I think steel may have used the wrong word. Absorb is probably the better term. In the event of unification most North Koreans will stay put. But there maybe a few million that will mostly head to Seoul. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| All of the far right parties you mentioned are in countries who are in the EU. If you want to make believe about 27 million refugees pouring into South Korea then with the free movement of people in the EU these countries face the constant prospect of the whole of the EU moving into their country. |
I think steel may have used the wrong word. Absorb is probably the better term. In the event of unification most North Koreans will stay put. But there maybe a few million that will mostly head to Seoul. |
I think the majority of his posts are the wrong words. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
As far as humanitarian immigration, S. Korea faces the constant prospect of a sudden influx of 27 million refugees pouring in from the North. It might be wise to deal with things one step at a time. Also, how are those other policies xenophobic? Those are pretty standard procedures around the globe.
Complete and utter hogwash.[/b] |
If they reunify, those 27 million North Koreans are going to be in need of massive social support services akin to refugees. This is why they budget money for it and put it in a fund.
How exactly is this hogwash? |
"IF they reunify..."
Care to put one of your scientific timelines on that?
More hogwash. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 3DR wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
As far as humanitarian immigration, S. Korea faces the constant prospect of a sudden influx of 27 million refugees pouring in from the North. It might be wise to deal with things one step at a time. Also, how are those other policies xenophobic? Those are pretty standard procedures around the globe.
Complete and utter hogwash.[/b] |
If they reunify, those 27 million North Koreans are going to be in need of massive social support services akin to refugees. This is why they budget money for it and put it in a fund.
How exactly is this hogwash? |
aTwood here just likes arguing with you is all. |
Gunga din, where you been?
Just in time; my men need water. Hop to. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| All of the far right parties you mentioned are in countries who are in the EU. If you want to make believe about 27 million refugees pouring into South Korea then with the free movement of people in the EU these countries face the constant prospect of the whole of the EU moving into their country. |
I think steel may have used the wrong word. Absorb is probably the better term. In the event of unification most North Koreans will stay put. But there maybe a few million that will mostly head to Seoul. |
I think the majority of his posts are the wrong words. |
They'll be part of Unified Korea. They'll constitute refugees in the sense that they have to expend massive amounts of capital to deal with them socially as they will be disadvantaged and lacking employable skills.
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"IF they reunify..."
Care to put one of your scientific timelines on that?
More hogwash. |
How is S. Korea facing a sudden collapse of the Nork regime hogwash? That's a scenario that everyone from Xi Jinping to Park Geun Hye to John Kerry has to at least be briefed on and make sure plans are in place for. Heck, China is at present trying to prevent unauthorized North Koreans moving into China and S. Korea has social support services for Nork defectors. |
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SHGator428
Joined: 05 Sep 2014
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelie, I don't recall who suggested it but why have you never considered going over onto the job discussion board and given advice to noobs? You know a shite ton about Korea and seem to have been in different situations that one new to the country might encounter. You could do a service. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| SHGator428 wrote: |
| Steelie, I don't recall who suggested it but why have you never considered going over onto the job discussion board and given advice to noobs? You know a shite ton about Korea and seem to have been in different situations that one new to the country might encounter. You could do a service. |
What does where I post have to do with the issue at hand? Why can't you debate the issue at hand?
"I think S. Korea might not be accepting large numbers of foreign refugees because they have to take care to devote resources to the potential North Korean refugee problem that can occur at any moment."
"Why aren't you posting in the Job Discussion forum???"
What kind of logical point is that?
Or is your point, if you don't like it here, why don't you leave?  |
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