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Stain
Joined: 08 Jan 2014
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 Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| I worked for a public school for many years. Here's my solution to your problems. Come to school in your slippers. That's what I did and nobody noticed anything, even on rainy or snowy days where I was obviously tracking in crap. If you don't like the food, it's best to criticize the cook, not Korean food. Sure, the cook will be pissed at you, but who gives a shit? Also, if your co-teacher is controlling, then that's great. Carry out her terrible ideas with passion, and soon you will see a new co-teacher that is infinitely better. They make changes all the time. If your co-teacher is completely intolerable, then I would suggest taking her out for drinks and tell her what you really think. |
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3DR
Joined: 24 May 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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The slipper thing is interesting. The first principal at my school didn't care and I wore shoes indoors for 2 years.
The new principal this year was really dedicated to making sure everyone wore the silly things.
Like others said, it's hilarious because I would regularly see teachers outside with them on, and then walk back in. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
Anyone able to understand the Korean in that video?
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| His Korean is terrible. I myself is Korean and cannot understand a word. |
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"이 놈, 이 놈아 싫어," is what it sounded like to me, obviously pronounced very poorly and inconsistently. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| jen_blue wrote: |
I guess how you interpret the shoes thing is down to what my co-t has told anyone else ... when we met in August / September she took me along to emart and purchased some things which included some indoor shoes; she never explained any further and despite having read numerous blogs and information relating to Korea, indoor shoes were never been mentioned. I wore them for 6-8 weeks, sprained my ankle in them twice and then one day, I was running late for classes one morning due to a dodgy bus, and forgot to change .... no-one said a thing!
As no-one said anything and I was looking for ways in which to keep warmer, I put the shoes thing down to one of those things that my co-t tells me is a "rule" or "inpossible" and which just aren't. I will purchase some new ones on the way home tomorrow .... didn't have chance today, should I make a big thing of it, say that I read something which told me that outdoor shoes are a big no-no indoors and let everyone know I am trying....
The school lunches: seriously, I would be willing to eat the lunch (or at least be paying for it and pretend), but I am designated to eat in the teachers lounge and every day the other teachers were picking up on how littleI eat and this was being interpreted as I dislike the lunch, in part they are not wrong, I also don't like many foods (eggs / onions / tomatoes just to begin....). I also felt increasingly uncomfortable that I was aware that they were talking about me during the lunch, with me present, thinking that I could understand. It was horrible.
I guess there is nothing more I can do but wait and hope that I can turn things around and if not then its just not meant to be, for whatever reason.... |
As other posters on here know, I am no Korean apologist. I left because despite some good experiences in Korea and one great boss plus a couple of good K friends, cultural norms in Korea are not my way of life. Koreans are incredibly utilitarian and many will discard foreigner 'friends' and acquaintances in a heart-beat once they have got the desired outcome whether it be help with English, money, introductions to useful people or things in other countries etc.
The key lack in Korean society is empathy. It explains why Koreans you show loyalty to will forget about you once another Korean disagrees with you or can do more than you or is just around in the workplace or whatever.
Koreans' relationships with each other as a rule trump absolutely everything else. That is one reason you as a foreigner are on the outside and will be kept out of the loop. It has happened to decent, professional, experienced teachers with insight into Korea that you lack.
However, it is clear from your post that I quote that you haven't made it easy for yourself. If you start off by pissing Koreans off over basic courtesies such as no outdoor shoes inside or rejecting the food, then yes they will use such apparent trivia to shut you off.
They will do it anyway to some extent but one of the basics about having a reasonable relationship with Korean employers and co-workers is not to make heavy going of such small things as wearing slippers inside and at least making some show of eating some Korean food.
Childish? Yes, it is a bit. Again it's the lack of empathy in a smaller way to some extent. One foreign teacher at one of my schools very politely refused to eat some slop a female Korean teacher had made at home and expected him to eat at 8.30am as soon as he had arrived at school after having had his own breakfast. There was nothing wrong with his refusal but from her face you would think he had called her something nasty or thrown something.
For non Koreans her slight tantrum showed that she was not thinking of the foreign teacher by insisting he eat something that early and getting upset when he very nicely said not now thank you, I have eaten a big breakfast. She was thinking of herself and lacked the sensitivity to the foreigner despite her overt show of offering something. Koreans tend to confuse doing things to make themselves look good or to make a foreigner fall in line with 'kindness' and 'generosity'.
But in your case eating the school meals is a simple obligation. You didn't have to say anything but something along the lines that 'spicy food' is a bit strong on my stomach but I'd love to eat some soup and have some of that rice etc.
As for outdoor shoes inside - you'd also piss off the Japanese as East Asians like the Koreans and Japanese as well as other Asians consider not changing shoes to be dirty. If you didn't like the slippers provided at the school, you could easily have bought decent slippers at the 1,000 yen store.
You show an unwillingness to do the small things that count. None of the decent foreign teachers I knew who had problems at their Korean schools refused to follow such basic customs or rejected outright the school meals.
You also are obviously inexperienced and as you live and work in Seoul I am guessing you are the young, attractive native English speaker who got lucky and got a job there because of superficial qualities.
You received an opportunity to live and work in Seoul instead of experienced or accomplished older teachers who may look fine but are shoved into bumf%%ck Korea precisely because their experience threatens some employers and they are not young or superficial.
You were lucky but you seem to have blown your opportunities by being stubborn about small things that are required in a Korean workplace. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
| You show an unwillingness to do the small things that count.. |
Its absurd. You could teach terribly for a year, but so long as you do the slipper thing and smile at the right people, you're golden.
Illogical misplaced priorities...is the reason why the korean education system is dysfunctional. But if you want to pick up a paycheque, you have to play the game. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually from what we have determined Chaparrastique (please note I didn't change your name this time because it didn't warrant it... yet) is that her teaching since the first month hasn't been an issue. More comfort, more engaging and positive feedback. The fact is that she isn't fitting into office culture. Which even if you were working in an office in Seattle if you didn't fit into the office culture you would be at risk for being let go. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Coltronator wrote: |
| The fact is that she isn't fitting into office culture. Which even if you were working in an office in Seattle if you didn't fit into the office culture you would be at risk for being let go. |
Sometimes the "office culture" is wrong.
If the office culture consists of playing silly games and making token gestures to hierarchy- to stroke the ego of one person- rather than being allowed to focus on doing your job well and being rewarded on merit- then stuff the office culture.
Koreans have to wake up to the fact that not everyone in the world is prepared to stay quiet and take s h i t forever and a day. Thats not what life is about. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Can we agree though that the lack of wearing indoor shoes is not such an example of "silly games" or "token gestures". That is consistent dress code violation and definitely a reason to let her go.
Eating together is just a camaraderie thing. You don't want to let your lunch buddy go and will say a nice word about them if asked.
Both of these situations exist in 90% of all offices no matter where.
She specifically isn't complaining about being give 5 hours of work 10 minutes before she leaves on Friday. Or going to work and finding out 30 minutes before that they are going on a class Hike and is now completely un-prepared with her attire and so can't participate. Or other such cases where "silly games" do happen. |
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Patong Dong
Joined: 06 May 2003
Location: On Nut
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Lots of good points have been made about going with the flow with things like slippers and school meals. Making appearances is important.
You also mentioned how your teacher was helpful when you got mugged and locked out of the house. She was doing her job, and I'm sure she'd insist she was happy to help, but fact is they don't like the extra work. And that's not your fault. They get loads of paperwork dumped on them, and whoever gets stuck being the handler, wants the least amount of extra work possible. I'm sure they don't dislike you because of having to go back to immigration for a new ARC, but it does indicate to them that they may have their hands full with you. And that's not a shot at you. You're new and had some exceptional events. But, it's the impression of what they can expect that was given pretty early on. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| Coltronator wrote: |
| Can we agree though that the lack of wearing indoor shoes is not such an example of "silly games" or "token gestures". That is consistent dress code violation and definitely a reason to let her go.. |
Wearing slippers at work is dangerous, it should not be part of the dress code.
For one thing, the hallways get extremely slippery whenever the kids or the cleaner "mops" them.
Also it provides no protection to the foot if some student decides to pick up their chair and put it down on your foot.
Let alone the amount of times you stub your toe traipsing around in the stupid things. |
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happyinhenan
Joined: 01 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:59 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| Coltronator wrote: |
| Can we agree though that the lack of wearing indoor shoes is not such an example of "silly games" or "token gestures". That is consistent dress code violation and definitely a reason to let her go.. |
Wearing slippers at work is dangerous, it should not be part of the dress code.
For one thing, the hallways get extremely slippery whenever the kids or the cleaner "mops" them.
Also it provides no protection to the foot if some student decides to pick up their chair and put it down on your foot.
Let alone the amount of times you stub your toe traipsing around in the stupid things. |
There is that reality where slippers and eating your weight in sweetcorn is important. I remember at a GEPIK meeting, the head of GEPIK gave us a talk (it wasn't Dain Bae, it was some ex school principal) and he gave us this advice if we were to do well at our new places of work:
'If you want to keep on the right side of your principal, make sure when you see him, you give him a deep bow, not nod your head in his direction, a deep bow from the waist'
And he gave us a demonstration of what a proper bow should entail, and that was the only advice he gave us about how to be a success. The OP has a strike against her as it is just by being British, she was halfway out of the door even before she turned up. The not wearing slippers and not eating school dinners are just nails in the coffin, you know it is bullshit and so do I - but that's the reality of working there. |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Chap, if you have proper rubber bottom indoor slippers there won't be any slipping. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| happyinhenan wrote: |
| 'If you want to keep on the right side of your principal, make sure when you see him, you give him a deep bow, not nod your head in his direction, a deep bow from the waist' |
Its been a while since I worked at a public school but I don't remember even the korean teachers doing that. |
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happyinhenan
Joined: 01 Feb 2015
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| Chaparrastique wrote: |
| happyinhenan wrote: |
| 'If you want to keep on the right side of your principal, make sure when you see him, you give him a deep bow, not nod your head in his direction, a deep bow from the waist' |
Its been a while since I worked at a public school but I don't remember even the korean teachers doing that. |
Nor do I to be honest but that was the advice given, probably it was a good indicator that the waygook guest teacher has to go above and beyond the call of duty to curry favour when they work in public schools. They can get rid of us after a year and bring in a new teacher. So, making cultural faux paxs that one is not aware of doesn't seem to be an excuse to our hosts. Nobody told me about the 'slippers inside' during my year at public school, if I had known, I would have took off my size 11 Doc Martens when I got to work.  |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Every public elementary school I've ever entered (many) was adamant about no outdoor footwear inside. I dont find slippers comfortable but it would have been downright rude to insist on wearing my shoes. Surely thats not such a big sacrifice.
Middle school & up nobody cares.
Deep bows are definitely never expected or required. |
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