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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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 Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
That's a lousy opinion column that in no way makes the case its headline suggests.
BTW, the Saudis have been fighting against ISIS and are supposedly prepared to send ground troops, etc. |
Err.... actually, there are more than enough sources, including the US gov. that point a finger at Saudi Arabia as being one of the main sponsors of ISIS.
What the US gov. does not wish to talk about is that a very, very short time ago ISIS was unheard of. It was an organization that was preoccupied fighting Syria's government - a government US has recently decided to depose.
US sent tons of funds to various 'freedom-fighting' organizations in Syria and it also sent fairly advanced weapons. The fact that even the most moderate groups which the US sent its weapons to were found to be committing beheadings didn't seem to bother the 'leader of the free world'.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/27/syrians-behead-christians-helping-military-cia-shi/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120802
That was the birth of ISIS that we know and love today.
By the way, the number of times US did this whole 'let's depose an anti-western government with the use of local lunatics and religious fanatics' is unbelievable.
Check this documentary for more info - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1494191/?ref_=nv_sr_1
(The documentary is a bit biased in that Oliver Stone depicts non-US parties as being almost innocent of any wrong-doing - but the US' part in splitting, destroying and basically destabilizing the world is well documented with legit sources.)
But yeah - the conversation went off-rails when patriotism was put into question. I'd argue that the most patriotic thing would have been to first depose and imprison the government that gave birth to ISIS in its current form.
Second of all, even without US' involvement, we once again see how religion causes major social problems.
In the end, I'd argue that all, racism, patriotism, nationalism and religion are caused by ignorance and stupidity. |
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GJoeM
Joined: 05 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Maximum, you were on topic and you were totally and insightfully relevant to the spirit of the original post, which was about Korea and racism. You were spot on -- the topic was derailed by nitwits going on about their 'patriotic right' to 'defend' 'American 'values' from ISIS and Nth Korea...
Bang off topic from then on..
Good grief...only in Korea... |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| GJoeM wrote: |
| YOU are bumping it and trying to derail it with your off topic ignorant trolling -- I am trying to get it back on topic before mods lock it. |
Maybe the topic just ain't that interesting. Ever thought of that?
And you're the one who linked to the article I commented on and then brought out the flamethrower when some disagreed with you. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| GJoeM wrote: |
What a daft thing to say -- USA ( and UK ) stirred up the hornet's nest in the Middle East, thus creating a swamp in which groups like ISIS can flourish.
Not only that -- YOUR country's leaders suck up to and bow to countries that morally, ideologically and religiously, are JUST AS BAD as ISIS and even fund them -- EG Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar etc.
Perhaps you didn't see the video of a Burmese woman hacked to death and beheaded by the state on the streets of Saudi a week or two ago? And Saudi are US and UK's FRIENDS.
It's not only the US of course -- just last week, Prince Charles was dancing around doing some absurd sword jumping ritual with these evil Saudi monarchs who are just as toxic as ISIS.
And since when did you feel you have to defend the USA's freedoms from the encroachment of North Korea?
Good grief man, watch something else besides CNN, FOX and the BBC...
Now -- let's get back to the ORIGINAL post, which is not about you and your 'patriotism' and not about 'defending your freedom from ISIS' -- The post is about KOREA. |
| Quote: |
Maximum, you were on topic and you were totally and insightfully relevant to the spirit of the original post, which was about Korea and racism. You were spot on -- the topic was derailed by nitwits going on about their 'patriotic right' to 'defend' 'American 'values' from ISIS and Nth Korea...
Bang off topic from then on..
Good grief...only in Korea... |
| Quote: |
| YOU are bumping it and trying to derail it with your off topic ignorant trolling -- I am trying to get it back on topic before mods lock it. |
Getting back on topic fail. If you want to get back on topic, why not just ignore posts instead of responding to non-topic comments. You are helping derail your post by responding. |
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GJoeM
Joined: 05 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| keep going, keep derailing -- you and atwood have killed the thread anyway. |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| GJoeM wrote: |
Maximum, you were on topic and you were totally and insightfully relevant to the spirit of the original post, which was about Korea and racism. You were spot on -- the topic was derailed by nitwits going on about their 'patriotic right' to 'defend' 'American 'values' from ISIS and Nth Korea...
Bang off topic from then on..
Good grief...only in Korea... |
Ah, but I did bring it back on topic with this line - 'In the end, I'd argue that all, racism, patriotism, nationalism and religion are caused by ignorance and stupidity.'
...though it is an overgeneralization of sorts, as there is also the practice of brain-washing from an early age that is often used to instill these traits in people - which is why some of the most intelligent people often have difficulties in realizing why these traits/beliefs are a major problem. |
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GJoeM
Joined: 05 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Maximum, your contributions are spot on, relevant and insightful -- it wasn't you that killed the thread. |
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Sector7G
Joined: 24 May 2008
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| GJoeM wrote: |
| That is one brave Korean lady in that video -- I respect her courage and spirit. |
She is beautiful too, both inside and out! I just spent about thirty minutes watching just a few of her videos on the subject. |
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GJoeM
Joined: 05 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Agreed Sector. Totally. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| GJoeM wrote: |
Maximum, you were on topic and you were totally and insightfully relevant to the spirit of the original post, which was about Korea and racism. You were spot on -- the topic was derailed by nitwits going on about their 'patriotic right' to 'defend' 'American 'values' from ISIS and Nth Korea...
Bang off topic from then on..
Good grief...only in Korea... |
Can you point to the post that espouses American values or are you just going to continue lying like a bear rug? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| maximmm wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
That's a lousy opinion column that in no way makes the case its headline suggests.
BTW, the Saudis have been fighting against ISIS and are supposedly prepared to send ground troops, etc. |
Err.... actually, there are more than enough sources, including the US gov. that point a finger at Saudi Arabia as being one of the main sponsors of ISIS.
What the US gov. does not wish to talk about is that a very, very short time ago ISIS was unheard of. It was an organization that was preoccupied fighting Syria's government - a government US has recently decided to depose.
US sent tons of funds to various 'freedom-fighting' organizations in Syria and it also sent fairly advanced weapons. The fact that even the most moderate groups which the US sent its weapons to were found to be committing beheadings didn't seem to bother the 'leader of the free world'.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/27/syrians-behead-christians-helping-military-cia-shi/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/02/us-usa-syria-obama-order-idUSBRE8701OK20120802
That was the birth of ISIS that we know and love today.
By the way, the number of times US did this whole 'let's depose an anti-western government with the use of local lunatics and religious fanatics' is unbelievable.
Check this documentary for more info - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1494191/?ref_=nv_sr_1
(The documentary is a bit biased in that Oliver Stone depicts non-US parties as being almost innocent of any wrong-doing - but the US' part in splitting, destroying and basically destabilizing the world is well documented with legit sources.)
But yeah - the conversation went off-rails when patriotism was put into question. I'd argue that the most patriotic thing would have been to first depose and imprison the government that gave birth to ISIS in its current form.
Second of all, even without US' involvement, we once again see how religion causes major social problems.
In the end, I'd argue that all, racism, patriotism, nationalism and religion are caused by ignorance and stupidity. |
The two articles you link to don''t mention anything about Saudi Arabia financially sponsoring ISIS. If there are more than enough sources, why didn't you link to them?
BTW, the article from the Washington Times article states:
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The reported beheading of the two Christians comes about the same time America has started sending arms to rebel fighters, the Wall Street Journal revealed this week. The Journal reported the Central Intelligence Agency just began transporting weapons to Jordan for eventual transfer to Syrian fighters.
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So your linking of the beheadings and U.S.- supplied arms is a very loose one. and since sources of news have been criticized on this thread, I'll just say that the Washington times article relies on outside reporting from a blog, Syria Report:
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| Syria Report was founded in March 2013 by activists, enthusiasts and independent analysts of the conflict in Syria. |
Not exactly the gold standard of journalism in either case.
As for Stones's series:
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David Wiegand wrote for the San Francisco Chronicle: "The films are at their best when they provide a panoramic view of our history in the middle part of the 20th century. Ably abetted by the superb editing work by Alex Marquez".[24] Verne Gay for Newsday similarly praised the craft: "By far the most interesting part of "Untold" is the visual presentation. Stone has cobbled together a mother lode of chestnuts, including grainy newsreel footage and Soviet propaganda films. It's all weirdly engrossing" but found the content less than provocative: "You keep waiting for a fresh insight, a new twist, a bizarre fact and after a while would even be profoundly grateful for some wacky Stone revisionism. It never comes. What's "untold" here?"[25]
Stone defended the program's accuracy to TV host Tavis Smiley:[26]
'This has been fact checked by corporate fact checkers, by our own fact checkers, and fact checkers [hired] by Showtime. It's been thoroughly vetted...these are facts, our interpretation may be different than orthodox, but it definitely holds up.
In November 2012, Hudson Institute adjunct fellow historian Ronald Radosh (who was averse to the project since its announcement and encouraged a write-in campaign to cancel the series)[27][28] lambasted it as "mendacious" Cold War revisionism and "mindless recycling of Stalin's propaganda," claiming similarities to Communist author and NKVD agent Carl Marzani's Soviet-published treatise We Can Be Friends.[29] Writes Radosh:
"Over and over, Stone uses the same quotations, the same arrangements of material, and the same arguments as Marzani. This is not to accuse Stone of plagiarism, only to point out that the case he now offers as new was argued in exactly the same terms by an American Communist and Soviet agent in 1952."
Libertarian journalist Michael C. Moynihan criticized the book for "moral equivalence between the policies of the psychotically brutal Soviet Union and the frequently flawed policy of the United States" and called the title "misleading" in that nothing within the book was "untold" previously. Moynihan also claimed factual errors and questionable sources. |
Hey, only in Korea, right?  |
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Coltronator
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Despite Saudi Arabia fighting ISIS, they are still no better. Our douchebag friend is fighting our douchbag enemy. That is all. |
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maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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I hope you at least read the articles link to.
And why not admit you, or the original source, was wrong about the Saudis instead of implying Qatar is being scapegoated?
Why should I watch a documentary based on information that's already known? U.S. mistakes on foreign soil are numerous. No one is disputing that. They're Noam Chomsky's stock in trade. Of course, he's now gone a bit off the rails by criticizing "American sniper" without ever having seen the movie.
I was parodying the use of "only in Korea," which I found sophmoric.
As for derailing, I'll call out misleading posts where and when I read them.
As for the supposed topic of the thread--racism in Korea--there are plenty of other threads on that same topic, so derailing this one is no loss. But if you have something NEW to say about racism in Korea, I'm all ears. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
As for derailing, I'll call out misleading posts where and when I read them.
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Et tu Brute?  |
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