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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:14 pm Post subject: Westerners in public schools: good idea? |
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So many waegs express opinions like this:
northway wrote: |
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but do you guys actually feel like EFL teachers in public schools were anything more than lipstick on a pig? How does one hour a week of foreign instruction make a difference in a student's education? Does anyone think that maybe it was a sound decision to dramatically cut the number of foreign teachers in the public school system, considering it would be unaffordable to bring in the number of instructors necessary to really make a difference? I really don't the recent cuts are tied to racism, I think they're just the practical thing to do. It's ironic to hear complaints about how Koreans care too much about appearances and then see the same people complain when Koreans cut an educational program that was only about appearances. |
I strongly disagree. Little exposure is better than no exposure. Even a one time event (like a concert or engaging lecture) could forever alter the course of a person's life. So once a week is not nothing/too little to make a difference. If the foreigner is good at teaching, then yes, it is a good use of money. $30,000 a year really isn't that much in the scheme of things (to give hundreds of students access to a native English speaker).
https://landofthemourningclam.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/study.png |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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You're basically suggesting that playing the lottery is good value. Honestly, how many students see real improvement in their English skills without attending hagwon? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Don't students have English every day (with various Korean teachers) then one day a week with a native teacher? After ten years of that they don't improve? Get real.  |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
You're basically suggesting that playing the lottery is good value. Honestly, how many students see real improvement in their English skills without attending hagwon? |
I've met loads of Koreans with a good knowledge of English without going to a hagwan or studying abroad. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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The public school English classes give them a good base. Studying at home (alone or with a tutor) can help take them further. |
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The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003 Location: Sonic Space
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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edwardcatflap wrote: |
I've met loads of Koreans with a good knowledge of English without going to a hagwan or studying abroad. |
You didn't have to go to a hagwan or study abroad to meet loads of Koreans with a good knowledge of English?
How did you meet them?
Just kidding.
But really?
I haven't met too many 'self study' students.
Most everyone I meet has attended a hagwan at one time or another...especially the ones with decent English skills.
Surely, they exist..but more like a rarity...no? |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
I haven't met too many 'self study' students.
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Not talking about self study. As WT said they get ten years of English at school. If their teacher's half decent and they pay attention in class they'll reach a resonable level. |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Having taught at the same school for years, I was able to see just how much the students benefited from my presence. The sixth graders who graduated this year have been learning with me since kindergarten, and when I compare their English competency to sixth graders from my first year, there simply was no comparison. Of course the two best English users attended a hagwon as well -- I openly and happily acknowledge the value hagwon teachers provide for their students, and it is a shame when hagwon teachers are spoken of in dismissive or contemptuous terms here -- but even the students who did not had built up a solid foundation upon which to further expand, with a solid core vocabulary; good pronunciation, listening ability, and reading ability; and decent writing and speaking ability. And in my fifth grade class, the three best students are ones who did not have the chance to attend hagwons, although they did all attend my afterschool classes at some point.
EPIK is a good program, and it is worth the money. Yes, there are imperfections in the program, but cuts will exacerbate those imperfections rather than mending them. |
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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003 Location: Yap
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Definite positive impact.
Better attitude toward the value of english, less shyness interacting with foreigners, raised awareness of other cultures, & authentic english practice. Even on a limited basis, these all add up to a huge increase in potential serious learners. I think our biggest value is simply planting the interest.
Our presence in schools also tends to influence Korean english teachers to up their game.
But our overall effect is hard to measure in stats. I just know through my own experience & observation of many other sincere epik teachers that we do make an important impression on a lot of kids. I also vote well worth the money. |
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SeoulNate

Joined: 04 Jun 2010 Location: Hyehwa
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Depends on the teacher. I've observed around a dozen public school teachers over the past few years that worked at their school for 3+ years. Some of them made big impacts, others failed to teach anything. |
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Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:53 am Post subject: |
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SeoulNate wrote: |
Some of them made big impacts, others failed to teach anything. |
I had two co-teachers that tried their best to smother and contain my teaching efforts. They felt threatened.
The system was designed to put FT's completely under the control of their Korean co-workers. And many of them did not want foreign teachers in their workplace.
Its almost like they planned the whole thing to fail. |
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DaeguNL
Joined: 08 Sep 2009
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:17 am Post subject: |
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edwardcatflap wrote: |
Quote: |
You're basically suggesting that playing the lottery is good value. Honestly, how many students see real improvement in their English skills without attending hagwon? |
I've met loads of Koreans with a good knowledge of English without going to a hagwan or studying abroad. |
ditto, but they were usually self motivated to learn. |
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Underwaterbob

Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Location: In Cognito
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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I was at the same public schools for seven years (until this year when they unceremoniously shuffled everyone in town around and gave them extra schools as well as different schools, let's see how that works out...) and I've noticed a significant improvement in students' English ability in that time. The same goes for my dozen or so co-teachers that I've worked with. English in Korea is probably better than it's even been. I like to think the influx of 원어민 is at least partly responsible.
The question is: does anyone care? At the end of the day, students are still evaluated on just about every facet of their English except their ability to effectively verbally communicate. Realistically, what percentage of your students are going to even need to know English by the time they hit the job market? But then, I guess you could ask that of any subject... |
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Fox

Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Underwaterbob wrote: |
The question is: does anyone care? At the end of the day, students are still evaluated on just about every facet of their English except their ability to effectively verbally communicate. |
So? Interaction with foreign teachers isn't limited to improving speaking ability, after all. If we do our jobs well, our students should not only be better speakers, but better listeners, better readers, and better writers, and all of those things are tested. Not that I'm suggested English should only be valued as a means to passing a test, of course, but even within the context of that view, foreign teachers stand to be helpful. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Westerners in public schools: good idea? |
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World Traveler wrote: |
Even a one time event (like a concert or engaging lecture) could forever alter the course of a person's life. |
If you're really learning a language then it's probably happening so gradually that you often feel like you are making no progress at all. I doubt any one time event is going to make much of a difference. What will make a difference is consistent dedication over a number of years. |
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