|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Lefil
Joined: 06 Nov 2013
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:22 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
A lot of Koreans weren't involved in the Korean independence movement. It doesn't make them collaborators. |
Then provide some evidence that shows Lee was anti-Japanese. You seem like one of Koreans who refuse to believe that a lot of Koreans were pro-Japanese. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| EZE wrote: |
If the Japanese government would've apologized immediately after the war, then it would've been Douglas MacArthur who owed Korea the apology since he was the ruler of Japan from 1945-1951. |
Douglas McArthur wasn't Japanese. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| young_clinton wrote: |
| EZE wrote: |
If the Japanese government would've apologized immediately after the war, then it would've been Douglas MacArthur who owed Korea the apology since he was the ruler of Japan from 1945-1951. |
Douglas McArthur wasn't Japanese. |
It doesn't matter. He was the Governor of Japan, the supreme ruler. If the government of Japan was supposed to apologize, well, for years that was MacArthur.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| EZE wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| A government is an entity, the same way a corporation or estate is. |
Japan lost the war. Its government in 2015 isn't even the same one from Imperial Japan. It's like comparing the government of Egypt today to a Pharaoh. Just because they can both rightfully be referred to as "the Egyptian government" doesn't mean they're one and the same.
If the Japanese government would've apologized immediately after the war, then it would've been Douglas MacArthur who owed Korea the apology since he was the ruler of Japan from 1945-1951. |
Except Japan back then still had a Parliament and the imperial family has maintained some statutory authority. Hirohito did not abdicate the throne.
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Like before, this is a poor analogy, as the reparations have already been paid out, leaving the only potential complaint to be that of an apology. What makes this apology of significantly different character to other apologies, such that a non-participant is able to - not even 'should,' mind you, but simply able to - offer anything greater than condolence? |
You have "apologies" followed up by backtracking statements. Those apologies are also full of carefully crafted legalese and as has been noted, when read in Japanese/Chinese characters do not reflect full apologies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Like before, this is a poor analogy, as the reparations have already been paid out, leaving the only potential complaint to be that of an apology. What makes this demand for an apology of significantly different character to demands for other apologies, such that a non-participant is able to - not even 'should,' mind you, but simply able to - offer anything greater than condolence? |
You have "apologies" followed up by backtracking statements. Those apologies are also full of carefully crafted legalese and as has been noted, when read in Japanese/Chinese characters do not reflect full apologies. |
You did not address my comment. I added some clarification in case you were confused as to my intent. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
maximmm
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There is only one yearly consistency in Asia. Every year, Korea and China will ask Japan to apologize.
It's a traditional event of sorts - like New Year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Except Japan back then still had a Parliament and the imperial family has maintained some statutory authority. Hirohito did not abdicate the throne. |
Hirohito and Parliament, just like everyone else in Japan, were under MacArthur's authority. He was the ruler of Japan. So MacArthur owed the apology. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Also, if anyone here's grandmother or aunt was turned into a forced sex slave by the Japanese, and they reacted the way they have, I'm pretty sure you'd be hooting and howling up a storm. I mean after all, people here flip out over spitting, staring, and slurping. I can only imagine how'd they take to repeated forcible rape of a family member. |
There are Filipinos whose grandmothers or aunts were raped by Koreans during WWII. There are Americans whose grandfathers were murdered by Korean guards during WWII.
It takes a lot of gall for Korea to demand apologies. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SHGator428
Joined: 05 Sep 2014
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| No. Get over it already. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Lefil wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
| A lot of Koreans weren't involved in the Korean independence movement. It doesn't make them collaborators. |
Then provide some evidence that shows Lee was anti-Japanese. |
Aside from doing business during the era, what evidence is there he was wasn't? He never supported the Japanese occupiers by donating money, or came out with pro-Japanese statements. His business wasn't even a major company before 1945. It was only after 1950, during the Korean War that his company really started to see success. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| EastisEast wrote: |
Who do you apologise to? Who does the apologising? They are ALL dead! In War, how does this dynamic happen? Don't we kill the losers? Hang them? Install a new government? That should be the end of it all. Anything that drags out and on is political hatred used by politicians. |
These are not personal apologies. A government is an entity, the same way a corporation or estate is. In a company, if the CEO dies, the company is still liable for any past and pending claims. An estate is similar to that as well. This is why "they're all dead" is not exactly applicable.
Think if you had been the victim of negligence due to some product at a company causing you injury. If you sued the company and they said "Our CEO quit and the design team was fired. You can't collect", would that be acceptable? Obviously not.
Also, if anyone here's grandmother or aunt was turned into a forced sex slave by the Japanese, and they reacted the way they have, I'm pretty sure you'd be hooting and howling up a storm. I mean after all, people here flip out over spitting, staring, and slurping. I can only imagine how'd they take to repeated forcible rape of a family member. |
To add some further context, there are Japanese public figures who are on government-appointed boards of important organisations that more or less represent national/public interests as in any developed country. For example NHK is the Japanese equivalent of the BBC - supposedly. I have never ever heard of a board member of the BBC making contentious statements that challenge widely known and well documented history and call these historical facts false.
Yet NHK has had executive members and people whose job it is to communicate with the public claiming that the comfort women issue was not one at all and denying historical facts such as Japanese war crimes.  It would be like Germany's national broadcaster having on its board Nazi sympathisers who publicly contradict known facts about Germany and WW2.
I believe a few of them have resigned but the fact that these fascist sympathisers have been allowed to make such statements and also pressure NHK to drop or alter programmes that were critical of Japan's past including the WW2 comfort women issue does reflect very badly on various Japanese Govts over the last decade or so.
As for the analogy with posters' grandmothers etc, I think you forget Steel Rails that the comfort women were also Chinese, Filippina, Singaporean, Malayan, Indonesian, and there were also English/Europeans/Australians among them. I'd say the latter group were far less from what I know but nevertheless after the fall of different Asian countries, the occupants from the colonial side were also imprisoned by the Japanese.
In fact more than 12 yrs ago, not sure about the date, a group of comfort women including an Australian, lost a case in Tokyo. That doesn't mean the Korean comfort women should be silent or Korea should not be pressing the matter but it is not only a Korea-Japan issue. And one of the underlying problems is how the Korean military also participated in setting up the system, some certainly willingly as a small minority of Korean academics have pointed out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brooks
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
NHK is worse due to Abe.
The prime minister appointed the guy in charge.
They have become aggressive in demanding monthly dues.
Are former comfort women still protesting daily by the statue and the Japanese embassy in Seoul? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Brooks wrote: |
NHK is worse due to Abe.
The prime minister appointed the guy in charge.
They have become aggressive in demanding monthly dues.
Are former comfort women still protesting daily by the statue and the Japanese embassy in Seoul? |
From what I know, yes. I don't live in Korea anymore but these are the best forums on the caf so I still participate. I enjoy Korea as a holidaying place but will never work there again esp as the conditions suck heavily more and more.
Are you still in Japan? I recall your handle back in the day when I lived there and was a lurker on the J forum without being a member. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems the same problem as in Korea is now happening in Japan. That is too many unemployed graduates from North America wanting to go to Japan and in the process driving down wages and conditions even more.
Just for the sake of it I look at Japan job advertisements on the net and still am shocked by the demands of the employers and the great frequency of 200,000 to 240,000 yen for English teachers per month and no extras. The job market was fairly static wheile I was there re pay and job openings in the last years I worked there but now there seem to be more small places springing up.
That is not a good thing - the owners seem mostly like exploitative arzes including the women owners. They are amateurish but demand more quaifications for less pay and no extras. These smaller schools are also creating a Korea type job market based on youth and North American background.
When I worked in Japan ekaiwa still tended to employ older, more serious teachers and didn't make a habit of wanting to rip off native English teachers while demanding they possess an abundance of paper qualifications. Where they don't now, they have illegal clauses in contracts such as you can't work in the same city for a year after you finish your job. Blatantly illegal, Nichibei.
There are other clowns who want their English teachers to be baristas when they are not teaching. I suspect these exploitative people are foreigners, not Japanese. When the schools go easy on qualifications they then want the young who have never worked in a teaching job in their lives. The trend towards smaller schools in Japan is not a good thing - it's driving the industry into the ground and making sure the cheaper salaries are the norm. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brooks
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yep, still in Japan.
I visit sometimes in Korea. I use HIS and do the tour with Japanese people.
I was in Insadong and Anguk last week. The guide was very knowledgeable about Korean history.
I will go back sometime. Like to go to Panmunjeon, with the North Korean defector as a guide. And I should go to Namsum too.
And visit my former student who teaches Japanese in Seoul.
Korea has gotten really expensive. I remember 1997. It was cheaper back then.
Japan is getting worse for work. Long-term I don't recommend it.
I am on another contract, this time at a high school.
I got certified in Arizona, but have to take an online class.
I think by next year I will be back in the US for good.
English should start at the 3rd grade so for people who want to teach kids there should be work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Brooks
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think that there are more Americans than before, and it started about 2009 when the US economy went to hell.
Before that there were fewer Americans and they tended to not stay long.
The Brits and Canadians tend to never leave.
I have been in Japan since 2000.
You must know someone to get a good job.
There are just too many teachers now so it is so competitive, even for part-time jobs that pay 4,000 yen per hour.
Anyway, back on the topic. In 13 years of watching NHK I get to learn about how bad the atomic bombings were or air raids on Tokyo, and the fascination of the Musashi which sank during WW 2, but don't get to see about all the bad things that took place in China or Korea. NHK just plays the victim card.
The odd thing is that the losers are getting to rewrite history.
Abe's own grandfather was locked up but let out in 1948 by the Americans.
Even now an American textbook in the US has been criticised by the Japanese embassy. There is a section on comfort women.
Read more at debito.org
These Yasukuni visits do not help. Once American officials visited a nearby shrine with war dead but no war criminals. Very telling to have the American Defense Secretary visit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
