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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| You don't have to be a Kpop expert to know who GDragon is and that his style is not something you'd find back home in a mainstream pop star or that 5 girls dressed as kittens or some crap like that would be standard back home. |
I could pretty much guarantee that of the hundreds of ex pats I knew in Korea not a single one would be able to tell me how G dragon's style of fashion was different to that of the trends going on in mainstream teen idol or any other kind of fashion 'back home' anywhere. But maybe you just move in different, younger circles. Are girls dressed as kittens standard in your country? I don't think they are in the UK but I haven't been back in a while. |
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Yaya
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Mix1 wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
Yeah, Korean pop is far from the only guilty party in the sampling/copying game. |
But it must rank near the top of the guilt list, if not the #1 contender. The "same-same" argument won't stick here. Happens with many other products here too; it's a pattern.
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| The OP is a dedicated Korea flamer whose hatred of all things Korean clouds his judgement. |
Nice try. Hatred of K-pop is definitely not clouded judgement.
One could have no opinion on Korea at all and still detest the music. |
Maybe you're the same type of Korea hater. You presented no evidence that Korea is among the worst offenders. 
I have no issue with the OP's hatred of Kpop, as I can't stand Kpop either, but the OP seems to think Korea is sooooo guilty of copying when it's a universal practice. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Yaya wrote: |
| Mix1 wrote: |
| Yaya wrote: |
Yeah, Korean pop is far from the only guilty party in the sampling/copying game. |
But it must rank near the top of the guilt list, if not the #1 contender. The "same-same" argument won't stick here. Happens with many other products here too; it's a pattern.
| Quote: |
| The OP is a dedicated Korea flamer whose hatred of all things Korean clouds his judgement. |
Nice try. Hatred of K-pop is definitely not clouded judgement.
One could have no opinion on Korea at all and still detest the music. |
Maybe you're the same type of Korea hater. You presented no evidence that Korea is among the worst offenders.
I have no issue with the OP's hatred of Kpop, as I can't stand Kpop either, but the OP seems to think Korea is sooooo guilty of copying when it's a universal practice. |
I have no real opinion on K-pop, but with Korean music in general I don't see the slight twist to take the music in a slightly different direction that exists in other countries. I just see well produced xeroxes of Western or Japanese music. Maybe it takes genius like Brian Wilson, Lennon & McCartney, Hendrix, Page, Kraftwerk, Cobain, and Daft Punk to be able to take the existing and transform it into something new. I just don't see that in Korean music. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Well, what's the explanation for KPop's appeal? It has made major inroads into Japan, China, and SE Asia. It has made minor inroads into other markets. There must be some sort of appeal and reason behind it.
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| I could pretty much guarantee that of the hundreds of ex pats I knew in Korea not a single one would be able to tell me how G dragon's style of fashion was different to that of the trends going on in mainstream teen idol or any other kind of fashion 'back home' anywhere. |
I'm one of the oldest out of all my friends, so there's a definite gap. Most have little interest in rock music beyond a few standards and find it as physically annoying as some people find KPop.
Time is moving on. The music we took for granted as being loved for eternity is about to be as familiar to people around us as Glenn Miller or Chubby Checker is us now. And not everyone loves the Beatles/Rock. Millions of people back home grew up listening to radio stations that never played a single Beatles song and only heard them through commercials or movies and the Beatles might as well be Billie Joel or The Rolling Stones or U2. They're just some "guitar men". The Beatles mean as much to them as Patsy Cline or the Gaithers or Patti Labelle or Mamma Mosie might mean to other people. Nowadays its probably some hip-hop, pop, or EDM whatehaveyou that they all know, and Paul McCartney gets a big "Who's that guy on stage with Kanye???" Paul McCartney might as well be Kid Ory. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Well, what's the explanation for KPop's appeal? It has made major inroads into Japan, China, and SE Asia. It has made minor inroads into other markets. There must be some sort of appeal and reason behind it.
| Quote: |
| I could pretty much guarantee that of the hundreds of ex pats I knew in Korea not a single one would be able to tell me how G dragon's style of fashion was different to that of the trends going on in mainstream teen idol or any other kind of fashion 'back home' anywhere. |
I'm one of the oldest out of all my friends, so there's a definite gap. Most have little interest in rock music beyond a few standards and find it as physically annoying as some people find KPop.
Time is moving on. The music we took for granted as being loved for eternity is about to be as familiar to people around us as Glenn Miller or Chubby Checker is us now. And not everyone loves the Beatles/Rock. Millions of people back home grew up listening to radio stations that never played a single Beatles song and only heard them through commercials or movies and the Beatles might as well be Billie Joel or The Rolling Stones or U2. They're just some "guitar men". The Beatles mean as much to them as Patsy Cline or the Gaithers or Patti Labelle or Mamma Mosie might mean to other people. Nowadays its probably some hip-hop, pop, or EDM whatehaveyou that they all know, and Paul McCartney gets a big "Who's that guy on stage with Kanye???" Paul McCartney might as well be Kid Ory. |
Your lunacy amuses me.
K-pop has made inroads into other countries because it has massive financial backing behind it. It also is a well packaged xerox of other successful acts from other countries. Take the sexuality of US pop, get a girl group to sing it half naked in Japanese, get major financial backing - then you might have success in Japan. And throw enough excrement at the wall and something's bound to stick. To suggest being popular indicates some kind of artistic merit or uniqueness is dense, even for you SR.
And don't kid yourself that K-pop bands are going to be popular in 50 years time. When G-dragon is dead in the ground the Beatles music will still be played and respected.
So again I say - Maybe it takes genius like Brian Wilson, Lennon & McCartney, Hendrix, Page, Kraftwerk, Cobain, and Daft Punk to be able to take the existing and transform it into something new. I just don't see that in Korean music.
Where is that genius Korean album that will still be listened to in 50 years time? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jazzmaster wrote: |
K-pop has made inroads into other countries because it has massive financial backing behind it. It also is a well packaged xerox of other successful acts from other countries. Take the sexuality of US pop, get a girl group to sing it half naked in Japanese, get major financial backing - then you might have success in Japan. And throw enough excrement at the wall and something's bound to stick. To suggest being popular indicates some kind of artistic merit or uniqueness is dense, even for you SR.
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That may be the bitter Korean-hater explanation, but I don't think that really serves. It's not like other countries don't have well produced and talented pop artists. They look good too and have slick production and mimic current trends out there, combining pop, hip hop, and electronic into whatever. Singing about sex isn't something unique to the US and Korea. And the financial backing they get isn't any more massive than the financial backing of any major record company and corporation. Whatever it is they've tapped into, it's more than just throwing money at the thing.
At the end of the day, if it sounds enjoyable and it's catchy, people will listen to it.
| Quote: |
| And don't kid yourself that K-pop bands are going to be popular in 50 years time. When G-dragon is dead in the ground the Beatles music will still be played and respected. |
Who knows what the future holds? If people keep clinging to the model music of the 60s like they once did with cars form the 60s, their music industry might suffer a similar fate, which is what has basically happened to rock as it has essentially faded out as of 2015. Even country music has shown a greater willingness to be accessible and relevant. In 50 years, music might be some Korea-Kanye music conglomerate pumping out of some massive holographic billboard whatever, while Pink Floyd is in some archive marked "historical".
Never said it will be. But don't be so sure about the ol Beatles there. They certainly have a decent chance of still being around in 50 years. Basically anything from 1900-1950 is no longer widely enjoyed and recognized. The Beatles maybe can get there simply because there will need to be one representative group, but they might be Elvisized in that people recognize "those 4 rock guys" but don't know their music real well. For some reason, my gut tells me that outside of the Beatles that might make it is ol AC/DC just because of the ubiquitous nature of their music and how it still seems to go on and on.
Brace yourselves, in the next 50 years The Beach Boys, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Nirvana, Daft Punk, GnR, etc. are all going to fade away the way Artie Shaw and Duke Ellington have amongst our generation. Their name might be known and a few songs heard, but most people won't be able to tell their songs from one another and treat them as historical curiosities.
I don't get why people here get so bothered that Koreans don't listen to and enjoy "their music" and that it bothers them that people in other countries are choosing KPop over their band from the 60s that kids these days don't identify with.
| Quote: |
| Brian Wilson, Lennon & McCartney, Hendrix, Page, Kraftwerk, Cobain, and Daft Punk |
You know, it might not hurt to at least put some Soul, Hip Hop, or R&B in there before talking about "Greatest Musicians Ever". |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
K-pop has made inroads into other countries because it has massive financial backing behind it. It also is a well packaged xerox of other successful acts from other countries. Take the sexuality of US pop, get a girl group to sing it half naked in Japanese, get major financial backing - then you might have success in Japan. And throw enough excrement at the wall and something's bound to stick. To suggest being popular indicates some kind of artistic merit or uniqueness is dense, even for you SR.
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That may be the bitter Korean-hater explanation, but I don't think that really serves. It's not like other countries don't have well produced and talented pop artists. They look good too and have slick production and mimic current trends out there, combining pop, hip hop, and electronic into whatever. Singing about sex isn't something unique to the US and Korea. And the financial backing they get isn't any more massive than the financial backing of any major record company and corporation. Whatever it is they've tapped into, it's more than just throwing money at the thing.
At the end of the day, if it sounds enjoyable and it's catchy, people will listen to it.
| Quote: |
| And don't kid yourself that K-pop bands are going to be popular in 50 years time. When G-dragon is dead in the ground the Beatles music will still be played and respected. |
Who knows what the future holds? If people keep clinging to the model music of the 60s like they once did with cars form the 60s, their music industry might suffer a similar fate, which is what has basically happened to rock as it has essentially faded out as of 2015. Even country music has shown a greater willingness to be accessible and relevant. In 50 years, music might be some Korea-Kanye music conglomerate pumping out of some massive holographic billboard whatever, while Pink Floyd is in some archive marked "historical".
Never said it will be. But don't be so sure about the ol Beatles there. They certainly have a decent chance of still being around in 50 years. Basically anything from 1900-1950 is no longer widely enjoyed and recognized. The Beatles maybe can get there simply because there will need to be one representative group, but they might be Elvisized in that people recognize "those 4 rock guys" but don't know their music real well. For some reason, my gut tells me that outside of the Beatles that might make it is ol AC/DC just because of the ubiquitous nature of their music and how it still seems to go on and on.
Brace yourselves, in the next 50 years The Beach Boys, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Nirvana, Daft Punk, GnR, etc. are all going to fade away the way Artie Shaw and Duke Ellington have amongst our generation. Their name might be known and a few songs heard, but most people won't be able to tell their songs from one another and treat them as historical curiosities.
I don't get why people here get so bothered that Koreans don't listen to and enjoy "their music" and that it bothers them that people in other countries are choosing KPop over their band from the 60s that kids these days don't identify with.
| Quote: |
| Brian Wilson, Lennon & McCartney, Hendrix, Page, Kraftwerk, Cobain, and Daft Punk |
You know, it might not hurt to at least put some Soul, Hip Hop, or R&B in there before talking about "Greatest Musicians Ever". |
More lies and twisted views, but i guess it's an improvement over your recent racism.
I am in no shape or form a "bitter Korean hater", nor are my opinions. To suggest so shows you have no real ability to negate anything that I have written.
Your equating popularity with artistic merit is laughable.
K-pop bands have major labels and the government supporting them. That makes their chances of success much higher than most pop groups. It's becoming common knowledge that you're to deluded too realize the truth.
The rest of your post proves my point as well. Where western music has been able to evolve to include the likes of hip hop and EDM Korean music has merely followed. You also prove my point about the Beatles legacy outlasting anything K-pop will ever produce.
Your bigoted swill about "their music" is more garbage. I've never said "my music" and I've never specified my opinions on people listening to K-pop, so it's completely false and becoming standard in your pathetic, bigoted posts. The reason being you can't argue the truth so have to make up lies and misrepresentations of peoples statements.
So I'll state it again: Where is that genius Korean album that will still be listened to in 50 years time?
The answer that you're avoiding facing is that there is none. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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I don't get why people here get so bothered that Koreans don't listen to and enjoy "their music" and that it bothers them that people in other countries are choosing KPop over their band from the 60s that kids these days don't identify with.
Quote:
Brian Wilson, Lennon & McCartney, Hendrix, Page, Kraftwerk, Cobain, and Daft Punk
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The fact that one of the bands mentioned is a German group that sang in German seems to disprove your point too. It's not about 'our' music and 'their' music, it's just the old argument about what is good and what isn't. I know that when I was a teenager the older generation thought the older stuff was better, it's a fairly typical reaction. Some of the stuff I was into as a kid is still played today and some isn't. It's interesting to debate why. Probably not with you however as you seem to be more interested in re-hashing your well-worn Korea apologist arguments. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
I don't get why people here get so bothered that Koreans don't listen to and enjoy "their music" and that it bothers them that people in other countries are choosing KPop over their band from the 60s that kids these days don't identify with.
Quote:
Brian Wilson, Lennon & McCartney, Hendrix, Page, Kraftwerk, Cobain, and Daft Punk
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The fact that one of the bands mentioned is a German group that sang in German seems to disprove your point too. It's not about 'our' music and 'their' music, it's just the old argument about what is good and what isn't. I know that when I was a teenager the older generation thought the older stuff was better, it's a fairly typical reaction. Some of the stuff I was into as a kid is still played today and some isn't. It's interesting to debate why. Probably not with you however as you seem to be more interested in re-hashing your well-worn Korea apologist arguments. |
SR seems to be becoming more bigoted with each post. Not one poster here has typed "my music". It's totally the creation of SR. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| K-pop bands have major labels and the government supporting them. That makes their chances of success much higher than most pop groups. It's becoming common knowledge that you're to deluded too realize the truth. |
I don't think that that explains their international appeal. Its not like Japan or China don't have major labels of their own and lots of money to pump into entertainment. Also, the government isn't financially supporting it to the extent like they're automobiles or nuclear power plants. It's giving some tourism money. We're talking mild subsidies, not major financing. I think this is more about some desperate attempt to say that they've been "cheating".
But go ahead and blame the government spending. Don't possibly accept the chance that they've produced a good product and are responding to market demand. Like I said, so reminiscent of the Detroit automobile.
For all the complaints about the lack of creativity in KPop, at least they aren't living in the past.
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| Where western music has been able to evolve to include the likes of hip hop and EDM Korean music has merely followed. |
First off, that's a rather generous way to put it. One could say that the western music scene evolved to where music was no longer segregated by race and that music became increasingly homogenized in its broad appeal. Let's not forget that the artists that led to hip hop grew up in many cases not being allowed to stay in the hotel they were playing at. To put this all under some "Western Culture of Evolution" is a bit much.
| Quote: |
So I'll state it again: Where is that genius Korean album that will still be listened to in 50 years time?
The answer that you're avoiding facing is that there is none. |
Irrelevant. The album will probably be dead as a concept in 50 years.
To answer your question, probably none. But as I said, who knows. Things change. There's no classic Japanese car from 50 years ago, let alone a Korean one. All of that is irrelevant. The Packard plant is closed. I just don't get why whether or not there is going to be a classic Korean album in 50 years is such a big deal? I just don't get why Kpop and the fact that other people listen to it gets people so angry.
I've seen this before. People getting upset that people cared more about The Winans or Earth Wind & Fire than The Beatles or The Rolling Stones.
Not everyone grew up with The Beatles and Nirvana. Not everyone gives a crap about them and thinks they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Not everyone listened to the same radio station you did when they were young. People actually listened to MIX92.3, not 101.1 the WRIF. Their morning show was Steve Harvey, not Bob & Tom. The big call in isn't Arthur P's afternoon drive, but Battle of The Old School on Saturday's where it's The Isley Brothers vs. The Spinners. And that's just old people. Heck, millions of people now have never listened to an entire album in their life. They just download songs and videos. To many millenials, Tupac is way more relevant than the Beatles. You want to watch some born in the 80s people go nuts? Put on 'California Love' or 'No Diggity'. Heck, 'I Want it That Way' might get a bigger rise than something else. Put on some Beatles or Pink Floyd and no one gives a flying crap. Fun songs to sing along to in the car, but you can't screw to the Beatles.
With music being increasingly homogenized, Korea stands a fair chance of maintaining and possibly growing its market. As I have said, to me it seems that Koreans, culturally, see music as something that is shared by people and must have broad appeal (everyone goes to noraebang together). It is not seen as something to identify yourself with and used to separate you (I listen to obscure Hipster Band X and as soon as too many people like it, I have to find something else). Well, in a homogenized music world, that's what is needed. Mass appeal, shared experience (going out to the club/bar).
Yes, you are now Homer Simpson in the Hulabalooza episode wondering who these crazy new bands like "The Smashing Pumpkins" are. Congrats. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
The fact that one of the bands mentioned is a German group that sang in German seems to disprove your point too. It's not about 'our' music and 'their' music
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Because as we all know, if there is one thing Kraftwerk is noted for, it is its stunning, soulful natural vocals and its timeless lyrics...
| jazzmaster wrote: |
| SR seems to be becoming more bigoted with each post. |
Actually, I'm trying to point out the underlying bias which quite possibly may be affecting your judgment.
Besides, you are the one upset that people listen to Kpop and are so intent on deeming it "inferior". And even if it is, who cares? That doesn't make you a better person.
If you are one of those people who desperately needs to prove why your music taste is good and why your music is better, than can only be a reflection on the lack of other accomplishments in your life. People who have a lot don't give a crap what other people listen to. The only people I've met who cared this much about what other people listen to are usually people who have little else to hang their hat on.
I just do not understand music snobbery. Might as well be food snobbery or fashion snobbery or snobbery over what dishes you own or how your garden looks. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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More moronic ranting and lies.
SR lie 1
I never said K-pop wasn't good. I wrote " I just see well produced xeroxes of Western or Japanese music".
SR lie 2
"There's no classic Japanese car from 50 years ago, let alone a Korean one".
Toyota 2000GT made in 1965. So good I believe it appeared in a Bond movie.
SR lie 3
"I've seen this before. People getting upset that people cared more about The Winans or Earth Wind & Fire than The Beatles or The Rolling Stones. Not everyone grew up with The Beatles and Nirvana. Not everyone gives a crap about them and thinks they're the greatest thing since sliced bread".
At no point have I mentioned being upset that people care about K-pop more than any other music.
SR lie 4
"Put on some Beatles or Pink Floyd and no one gives a flying crap. Fun songs to sing along to in the car, but you can't screw to the Beatles".
The biggest selling artists of all time. Pink Floyd had a number one album throughout Europe and number 3 in the USA last year. McCartney's New album was a big seller all over the world. Even got to number two in Japan. But "no one gives a flying crap" according to SR.
SR lie 5
"First off, that's a rather generous way to put it. One could say that the western music scene evolved to where music was no longer segregated by race and that music became increasingly homogenized in its broad appeal. Let's not forget that the artists that led to hip hop grew up in many cases not being allowed to stay in the hotel they were playing at. To put this all under some "Western Culture of Evolution" is a bit much."
I didn't specify how easy or difficult it was. All I said was "Where western music has been able to evolve to include the likes of hip hop and EDM Korean music has merely followed" which you've done nothing to disprove. Although your attempts to bring up racism are particularly amusing considering you have been warned about your racism on this very site.
It's pretty clear you're lying in every post. Everyone can see it.
Last edited by jazzmaster on Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
edwardcatflap wrote:
The fact that one of the bands mentioned is a German group that sang in German seems to disprove your point too. It's not about 'our' music and 'their' music
Because as we all know, if there is one thing Kraftwerk is noted for, it is its stunning, soulful natural vocals and its timeless lyrics...
jazzmaster wrote:
SR seems to be becoming more bigoted with each post.
Actually, I'm trying to point out the underlying bias which quite possibly may be affecting your judgment.
Besides, you are the one upset that people listen to Kpop and are so intent on deeming it "inferior". And even if it is, who cares? That doesn't make you a better person.
If you are one of those people who desperately needs to prove why your music taste is good and why your music is better, than can only be a reflection on the lack of other accomplishments in your life. People who have a lot don't give a crap what other people listen to. The only people I've met who cared this much about what other people listen to are usually people who have little else to hang their hat on.
I just do not understand music snobbery. Might as well be food snobbery or fashion snobbery or snobbery over what dishes you own or how your garden looks. |
If anyone's getting angry on here it's probably about the way you argue, not about people listening to K Pop. Stop banging on about snobbery, people feeling better than others and playground mentality stuff. People are just having a debate about what art is good and what isn't. I suspect the way you're talking about a 'product' that you don't even see k pop as being art at all. Fair enough there's nothing more to say in that case. |
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jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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SR lie 6
"Besides, you are the one upset that people listen to Kpop and are so intent on deeming it "inferior". And even if it is, who cares? That doesn't make you a better person".
I haven't called it inferior. And I've made no comments about the people who enjoy K-pop.
SR lie 7
"If you are one of those people who desperately needs to prove why your music taste is good and why your music is better, than can only be a reflection on the lack of other accomplishments in your life. People who have a lot don't give a crap what other people listen to. The only people I've met who cared this much about what other people listen to are usually people who have little else to hang their hat on. "
I haven't mentioned my personal music taste. I mentioned artists who are generally considered to have progressed music in some way. I don't really like Kraftwerk or Hendrix that much.
SR truth 8
"I just do not understand music snobbery".
Clearly you don't understand much, yet you claim to be an expert in so many things. |
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Qonny
Joined: 28 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails what are your top 5 albums of all time? |
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