|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:55 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
SR lie 8
"Also, the government isn't financially supporting it to the extent like they're automobiles or nuclear power plants. It's giving some tourism money. We're talking mild subsidies, not major financing. I think this is more about some desperate attempt to say that they've been "cheating"."
In 2005 the Korean government launched a $1 billion investment fund to support the pop industry.
I never mentioned any cheating. This is you projecting again. Just like you did when you made your racist comments. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
"There's no classic Japanese car from 50 years ago, let alone a Korean one".
Toyota 2000GT made in 1965. So good I believe it appeared in a Bond movie. |
One at the tail end. I stand corrected. Of course, a Dodge Dart is more of a classic than that. The first one I'd really think of is the Datsun 510.
| Quote: |
"I've seen this before. People getting upset that people cared more about The Winans or Earth Wind & Fire than The Beatles or The Rolling Stones. Not everyone grew up with The Beatles and Nirvana. Not everyone gives a crap about them and thinks they're the greatest thing since sliced bread".
At no point have I mentioned being upset that people care about K-pop more than any other music. |
| Quote: |
SR lie 1
I never said K-pop wasn't good. I wrote " I just see well produced xeroxes of Western or Japanese music".
|
| Quote: |
SR lie 6
"Besides, you are the one upset that people listen to Kpop and are so intent on deeming it "inferior". And even if it is, who cares? That doesn't make you a better person".
I haven't called it inferior. And I've made no comments about the people who enjoy K-pop.
|
Right, you have nothing but respect and acceptance for Kpop.
| Quote: |
"Put on some Beatles or Pink Floyd and no one gives a flying crap. Fun songs to sing along to in the car, but you can't screw to the Beatles".
The biggest selling artists of all time. Pink Floyd had a number one album throughout Europe and number 3 in the USA last year. McCartney's New album was a big seller all over the world. Even got to number two in Japan. But "no one gives a flying crap" according to SR.
|
You missed the part before where I was talking about Millenials and them caring more about Tupac than Pink Floyd. That's not to say overall Pink Floyd isn't relevant, but to a great many people out there, they don't care.
Sorry, but that music isn't universal. It isn't loved by everyone. Many people grow up not giving a crap about them and more so these days.
| Quote: |
| I didn't specify how easy or difficult it was. All I said was "Where western music has been able to evolve to include the likes of hip hop and EDM Korean music has merely followed" which you've done nothing to disprove. Although your attempts to bring up racism are particularly amusing considering you have been warned about your racism on this very site. |
I was warned about using racial language, however the context was clearly one where I was against racism. I accept the Mod's warning and their view of the TOS and how it applies. It's called context.
| Quote: |
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:55 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Report Post
SR lie 8
"Also, the government isn't financially supporting it to the extent like they're automobiles or nuclear power plants. It's giving some tourism money. We're talking mild subsidies, not major financing. I think this is more about some desperate attempt to say that they've been "cheating"."
In 2005 the Korean government launched a $1 billion investment fund to support the pop industry. |
First off, the Economist article was inaccurate. That was a general culture fund that included, amongst other things, dramas, film, and food.
http://koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2013/02/602_130133.html
Considering the amount of tourism, revenue, and the value of those 4 industries in terms of domestic and exported production, that's not that much money.
| Qonny wrote: |
| Steelrails what are your top 5 albums of all time? |
I don't know about best and haven't thought in that sense. I will say that I have some favorites. My taste is broad, not deep. Plus I was an early adapter to MP3s. I'll just rattle off some.
LZ II, IV, Houses of the Holy, Physical Graffiti
Alison Krauss Live
Mellon Collie
Lovesick Broke & Driftin
Hank Sr's Greatest Hits
Alanis MTV Unplugged
Shake Your Money Maker & Southern Harmony
David Allen Coe's X-Rated Hits
A Funk Odyssey
Stand!
Talking Book, Innervisions
Jill Scott Beautifully Human
Rollercoaster 3
Peterpan Complex Radiostar
Tupac's Greatest Hits, all the best on 2 CDs.
Heck some KPop 90s guilty pleasures like SES 1&2, HOT 2, FinKL 1 &2
Millenium or Oops I did it Again or Aquarium
Heck throw on some Dio MP3s and go back to the ol D&D days...
Some more obscure stuff , not even getting into jazz and classical. You know, you just come across something and you start listening to it. "What's narcocrridos?" and boom suddenly I'm listening to Los Tigres del Norte. Or it can be something mainstream like riding in someone's car and hearing a Kpop ballad by Gavy NJ and then I'll listen to their album when it matches my mood.
Who cares...if it was fun and I enjoyed it, I listened to it and played it. It doesn't define me and I don't care what people think about who it makes me if I listen to it. I hear it, I like it, I listen to it. There's only two kinds of music I don't listen to- CCM (not CCR) and Smooth Jazz. But I'll listen to just about any other kind of Christian music or jazz.
I just feel bad for people who can't listen to something because it doesn't match their image or they think they'll be thought less of if they listen to certain kinds of music or its not what their friends listen to or it can only be from 1-2 genres. Like, when I saw Jazzmaster's list it was just so...undiverse. If you're talking about great music, but for the most part you're just rattling off rock bands, its just so monochrome. Show me what you like. "Oh, you like so and so, let me see why. Why do you like it? Oh, it reminds you of your teenage years, or you can exercise to it, or you're a huge Dvorak fan, or you really like the person's voice"
But if someone says they like Garth Brooks or Britney Spears or some AC (That AC) or Lil Wayne or Milli Vanilli, or Liszt or whatever, I don't react with some evaluation of them as a person. Find out why they like it, listen to it with em while riding in the car or helping them clean their apartment or whatever.
If you like it, listen to it. [/quote] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
Heck some KPop 90s guilty pleasures like SES 1&2, HOT 2, FinKL 1 &2
Millenium or Oops I did it Again or Aquarium |
The fact that you call these 'guilty' pleasures suggests to me that you think this music isn't really the same quality as the rest of the music you listen to. Or maybe you will try to claim that liking this music makes you feel guilty because of other people's negative reactions to it. On the other hand you said you don't care what other people think about your tastes.
Either way the phrase doesn't really fit with your mindset that it is impossible to guage the quality of popular music or that you are a free spirit unfettered by the musical snobbery of others. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
Heck some KPop 90s guilty pleasures like SES 1&2, HOT 2, FinKL 1 &2
Millenium or Oops I did it Again or Aquarium |
The fact that you call these 'guilty' pleasures suggests to me that you think this music isn't really the same quality as the rest of the music you listen to. Or maybe you will try to claim that liking this music makes you feel guilty because of other people's negative reactions to it. On the other hand you said you don't care what other people think about your tastes.
Either way the phrase doesn't really fit with your mindset that it is impossible to guage the quality of popular music or that you are a free spirit unfettered by the musical snobbery of others. |
I'd be an idiot if I didn't know what the average music snobs reaction to such an album would be. Especially with a crowd as hypercritical as this one. It's a common turn of phrase. I don't feel guilty about it, but I know how some people perceive such things.
Pizza is a guilty pleasure, that doesn't mean I don't gauge the quality for me or someone else if they like a certain pizza or pizza period. Anyways, I'll gladly consider a song or a band better or worse FOR ME. Heck, I'll go on for hours about why a certain kind of pizza prepared a certain way tastes better TO ME and why you should try it out, but I'm not butthurt that people prefer a California Pizza.
Of course we can bounce things back and forth and get a good argument going, but there seems to be a tendency with music (and lately these days, food) to pass judgment on what they eat or listen to onto the person as a whole. That if someone has "bad taste" in music they must be a flawed person because of that. Or resenting an entire population of people because they don't share your taste in music.
Anyways, I think the greater point is that one person's music is another person's noise and that people should strongly consider that things like taste in music is not as absolute as people think they are.
And brace yourselves because music IS changing. The album is nearly dead. Rock is dead for the moment. Music is getting global and has to appeal to a broader and broader base. Youtube and the internet have changed how people access music and listen to it. The question about great albums is so irrelevant now. Might as well be talking about DVD sales. And in the future if you're going on and on about Pink Floyd and Nirvana, you might as well be talking about when you scored 4 touchdowns in one game for Polk High. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Pizza is a guilty pleasure, that doesn't mean I don't gauge the quality for me or someone else if they like a certain pizza or pizza period. Anyways, I'll gladly consider a song or a band better or worse FOR ME. Heck, I'll go on for hours about why a certain kind of pizza prepared a certain way tastes better TO ME and why you should try it out, but I'm not butthurt that people prefer a California Pizza. |
You brought up the subject of food the last time this issue was raised and I tried to explain why food and art are different things. Maybe you still don't get it. Of course most of the time there's no problem with people thinking art is good TO THEM but sometimes a general consensus has to be reached such as what literature kids should study at high school, what paintings should be hung in the National portrait gallery, or what film should win an Oscar. Naturally people will debate and disagree on the criteria for deciding these things but they try to reach a conclusion nonethless. I'm not saying pop music is in the same category as the aforementioned but it is still to some extent 'art' and it's just laziness to say all of it is good to the people who listen to it and leave it at that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Pizza is a guilty pleasure, that doesn't mean I don't gauge the quality for me or someone else if they like a certain pizza or pizza period. Anyways, I'll gladly consider a song or a band better or worse FOR ME. Heck, I'll go on for hours about why a certain kind of pizza prepared a certain way tastes better TO ME and why you should try it out, but I'm not butthurt that people prefer a California Pizza. |
You brought up the subject of food the last time this issue was raised and I tried to explain why food and art are different things. Maybe you still don't get it. Of course most of the time there's no problem with people thinking art is good TO THEM but sometimes a general consensus has to be reached such as what literature kids should study at high school, what paintings should be hung in the National portrait gallery, or what film should win an Oscar. Naturally people will debate and disagree on the criteria for deciding these things but they try to reach a conclusion nonethless. I'm not saying pop music is in the same category as the aforementioned but it is still to some extent 'art' and it's just laziness to say all of it is good to the people who listen to it and leave it at that. |
But music has so many different meanings to so many different people. People listen to music for so many different reasons. Would you agree that dance is or at least can be a part of music? Well, some "great" music out there you can't really dance to. Some people really enjoy dance and don't want to sit around in some dingy room, doing drugs, and listening to something really trippy. On the other hand, that can be awesome if that's your deal. Maybe people's favorite music is something they can all sing with their friends at the bar or a kareoke room. Maybe they want a highly technical piece of music that just doesn't appeal to a lot of people. Maybe they want to listen to music in order to experience the emotions of the vocalist, in which case, they might hear the exact same song but be more focused on the person's vocal talents.
Different museums can have different criteria. Some might be considered "culturally significant" even if they are a technically 'meh'. Others might base it off of sheer popularity. Others might seek the opinions of other musicians or industry people. But I'd be careful about declaring the pantheon of classic rock greats, starting with Elvis and the Beatles, to be the beginning of "great". It's like declaring Babe Ruth or Gretzky the greatest athlete ever. One, he's long dead and a great many people can't remember him. Two, most of the world doesn't give a flying crap about baseball or hockey. Who is it? Is it Pele? Jordan? Ali? Some decathlete? World popularity might be Pele or some other footballer, but Americans, who represent a big chunk of the popular sports market, would disagree. They'd probably say Jordan if they were under the age of 70, but basketball isn't universal either. Boxing sort of is, does that make it Ali? But then people will say that a decathlete or the Ironman Triathlon is the best way to determine it. Then some MMA fan would say boxers don't even have to deal with kicks and submissions. Are any of those people wrong? Are people who declare The Beatles/Elvis or some other classic rock band making the Babe Ruth "mistake"?
That's not to say Kpop has produced anything like an Ali or Ruth, but should people get upset that they aren't on board with all of that? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| One at the tail end. I stand corrected. |
Not the first time you've been wrong.
SR lie 324
| Quote: |
| Right, you have nothing but respect and acceptance for Kpop. |
More lies. You don't know how much I respect and accept K-pop because I haven't told you how much I respect and accept K-pop. You're going round in circles because you have nothing substantial to add. Just like K-pop.
SR lie 9728
| Quote: |
You missed the part before where I was talking about Millenials and them caring more about Tupac than Pink Floyd. That's not to say overall Pink Floyd isn't relevant, but to a great many people out there, they don't care.
Sorry, but that music isn't universal. It isn't loved by everyone. Many people grow up not giving a crap about them and more so these days. |
No, you're missing the point. The point is half a century after they started these artists are still filling stadiums and having successful albums. How many K-pop bands can you say the same about?
None.
So what does that say about K-pop?
SR lie 857302384
| Quote: |
| I was warned about using racial language, however the context was clearly one where I was against racism. I accept the Mod's warning and their view of the TOS and how it applies. It's called context. |
No. Your warning was because of your attempt to erroneously paint a poster/posters as racist bigots. But the sad fact was that you were the only person using racist language, and as a result you received a warning.
SR has resorted to pulling the emergency cord and started derailing the thread in hope of a lock. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Well jazzmaster, please enlighten us as to your insights on Kpop then. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Well jazzmaster, please enlighten us as to your insights on Kpop then. |
I have no real opinion on K-pop, but with Korean music in general I don't see the slight twist to take the music in a slightly different direction that exists in other countries. I just see well produced xeroxes of Western or Japanese music. Maybe it takes genius to be able to take the existing and transform it into something new. I just don't see that in Korean music. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chaparrastique
Joined: 01 Jan 2014
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Koharski
Mod Team
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jazzmaster wrote: |
[
SR lie 857302384
| Quote: |
| I was warned about using racial language, however the context was clearly one where I was against racism. I accept the Mod's warning and their view of the TOS and how it applies. It's called context. |
No. Your warning was because of your attempt to erroneously paint a poster/posters as racist bigots. But the sad fact was that you were the only person using racist language, and as a result you received a warning.
SR has resorted to pulling the emergency cord and started derailing the thread in hope of a lock. |
Wow, Jazz. Is there some sort of crystal ball you have to be able to see our thoughts and private conversations with posters on here? Let's see how your crystal ball does with this one:
You are in violation of the TOS by continually attacking Steelrails and not staying on topic. We, the Mod Team, have left numerous warnings about responding to the post and not the poster, but you have repeatedly ignored these warning and proceed to call out SR in multiple threads. If you continue, the Mod Team will sanction your account up to and including the termination of your posting privileges.
We like to be able to have adult discussion on here without the personal attacks. If you disagree with someone, respond accordingly and maturely. There is absolutely no reason to go after an individual just because his/her opinion differs from yours. In this thread's case, if you do not care for K-pop, maybe this is not the thread for you.
Koharski |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Koharski wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
[
SR lie 857302384
| Quote: |
| I was warned about using racial language, however the context was clearly one where I was against racism. I accept the Mod's warning and their view of the TOS and how it applies. It's called context. |
No. Your warning was because of your attempt to erroneously paint a poster/posters as racist bigots. But the sad fact was that you were the only person using racist language, and as a result you received a warning.
SR has resorted to pulling the emergency cord and started derailing the thread in hope of a lock. |
Wow, Jazz. Is there some sort of crystal ball you have to be able to see our thoughts and private conversations with posters on here? Let's see how your crystal ball does with this one:
You are in violation of the TOS by continually attacking Steelrails and not staying on topic. We, the Mod Team, have left numerous warnings about responding to the post and not the poster, but you have repeatedly ignored these warning and proceed to call out SR in multiple threads. If you continue, the Mod Team will sanction your account up to and including the termination of your posting privileges.
We like to be able to have adult discussion on here without the personal attacks. If you disagree with someone, respond accordingly and maturely. There is absolutely no reason to go after an individual just because his/her opinion differs from yours. In this thread's case, if you do not care for K-pop, maybe this is not the thread for you.
Koharski |
Could you be more specific about the personal attacks?
I thought it was a fact that SR had been warned about his racist comments. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Koharski
Mod Team
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jazzmaster wrote: |
SR lie 324
SR lie 9728
SR lie 857302384
SR has resorted to pulling the emergency cord and started derailing the thread in hope of a lock. |
Seriously? You cannot see where you are not addressing the topic and just going after Steelrails? This is not the first thread that has turned into a back-and-forth between you two.
The warning is not up for debate. Discuss the topic of the thread or leave the thread.
Koharski |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzmaster
Joined: 30 Sep 2013
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Koharski wrote: |
| jazzmaster wrote: |
SR lie 324
SR lie 9728
SR lie 857302384
SR has resorted to pulling the emergency cord and started derailing the thread in hope of a lock. |
Seriously? You cannot see where you are not addressing the topic and just going after Steelrails? This is not the first thread that has turned into a back-and-forth between you two.
The warning is not up for debate. Discuss the topic of the thread or leave the thread.
Koharski |
I think my posts were in direct response to the lies in his posts. I don't see that as a personal attack. It's just pointing out the truth. Just like I pointed the irony of him mentioning the indignities of racism when he was warned about making racist comments.
But I'll leave this thread as you requested. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
