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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| I for one saw nothing offensive at all in what Cave Dweller said. |
Don't worry, Fox; they're offended on your behalf. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| I for one saw nothing offensive at all in what Cave Dweller said. |
Don't worry, Fox; they're offended on your behalf. |
That's not entirely the issue. Its a professional teacher's forum. The moderators have a right to regulate the language for that purpose. In this case, EP seems to be using a light touch, and CD's attitude is inviting more stringent retaliation for others of us in the future. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| I for one saw nothing offensive at all in what Cave Dweller said. |
Don't worry, Fox; they're offended on your behalf. |
That's not entirely the issue. Its a professional teacher's forum. The moderators have a right to regulate the language for that purpose. In this case, EP seems to be using a light touch, and CD's attitude is inviting more stringent retaliation for others of us in the future. |
Not entirely, but we should be careful that it doesn't become entirely a PC issue.
This is exactly the place to discuss 'usage'.
As 'professionals' we 'should' be able to discuss the vocabulary in question in terms of 'usage'.
More stringent retaliation makes this seem like simply a PC matter.
Fox is not looking to be offended.
Language, for the most part, is what we make of it. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:09 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Not entirely, but we should be careful that it doesn't become entirely a PC issue.
...
More stringent retaliation makes this seem like simply a PC matter.
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Political correctness is a problem, but not in the way you may think. You can't call terms 'racist' anymore, because racists are bad, therefore you must call terms 'racially insensitive.' Fans of the District of Columbia football team may freely use the term 'Redskin,' but don't dare call the term 'Redskins' racist or those who use that term 'racist.' |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Not entirely, but we should be careful that it doesn't become entirely a PC issue.
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More stringent retaliation makes this seem like simply a PC matter.
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Political correctness is a problem, but not in the way you may think. You can't call terms 'racist' anymore, because racists are bad, therefore you must call terms 'racially insensitive.' Fans of the District of Columbia football team may freely use the term 'Redskin,' but don't dare call the term 'Redskins' racist or those who use that term 'racist.' |
This. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
Not entirely, but we should be careful that it doesn't become entirely a PC issue.
...
More stringent retaliation makes this seem like simply a PC matter.
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Political correctness is a problem, but not in the way you may think. You can't call terms 'racist' anymore, because racists are bad, therefore you must call terms 'racially insensitive.' Fans of the District of Columbia football team may freely use the term 'Redskin,' but don't dare call the term 'Redskins' racist or those who use that term 'racist.' |
Quite right.
Runs along the same lines as "we misspoke".
We aren't lowering our standards anymore...just broadening them. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| I for one saw nothing offensive at all in what Cave Dweller said. |
Don't worry, Fox; they're offended on your behalf. |
That's not entirely the issue. Its a professional teacher's forum. The moderators have a right to regulate the language for that purpose. In this case, EP seems to be using a light touch, and CD's attitude is inviting more stringent retaliation for others of us in the future. |
We are not after everything someone says, but it was clear that CD had an attitude; he wasn't showing an iota of professionalism. Imagine if he said to a Jew in the US, "Hey, Dan, is Rosh Hashana a jew holiday?". How would that sound? And he didn't capitalize the word "Jew". That would lead one to conclude that he is trolling and trying to disparage Jews. We're not trying to retaliate. We got a report. It was viewed as offensive. If you're purposely looking to target Jews or whatever group, it violates the TOS. If you are not purposely trying to do so, and that's clear, that's another issue. Yes, there are grey areas that are hard to deal with. We're not trying to muzzle users. Have a good one. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| We are not after everything someone says, but it was clear that CD had an attitude; he wasn't showing an iota of professionalism. Imagine if he said to a Jew in the US, "Hey, Dan, is Rosh Hashana a jew holiday?". How would that sound? And he didn't capitalize the word "Jew". That would lead one to conclude that he is trolling and trying to disparage Jews. We're not trying to retaliate. We got a report. It was viewed as offensive. If you're purposely looking to target Jews or whatever group, it violates the TOS. If you are not purposely trying to do so, and that's clear, that's another issue. Yes, there are grey areas that are hard to deal with. We're not trying to muzzle users. Have a good one. |
I think I can state with some degree of assurance that the word "Jew", used as an adjective, is almost always meant as pejorative. If you don't want to be insulting, you say "Jewish" for the adjective.
Now, is that logical, when, for example, "Catholic" can do double-duty as both a noun and an adjective, without being taken as offensive? Maybe not, but it is the way the usage has evolved: people who use "Jew" that way do so because they WANT to be viewed as hostile to Jews.
And this is not meant as comment on Cave Dweller's attitude toward Jews, as it's possible that someone could innocently pick up that usage without realizing the implications. But, yes, as far as forums like this go, it is a usage that should be discouraged. |
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ersatzredux
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Same as it ever was, same as it ever was
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| Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| We are not after everything someone says, but it was clear that CD had an attitude; he wasn't showing an iota of professionalism. Imagine if he said to a Jew in the US, "Hey, Dan, is Rosh Hashana a jew holiday?". How would that sound? And he didn't capitalize the word "Jew". That would lead one to conclude that he is trolling and trying to disparage Jews. We're not trying to retaliate. We got a report. It was viewed as offensive. If you're purposely looking to target Jews or whatever group, it violates the TOS. If you are not purposely trying to do so, and that's clear, that's another issue. Yes, there are grey areas that are hard to deal with. We're not trying to muzzle users. Have a good one. |
I think I can state with some degree of assurance that the word "Jew", used as an adjective, is almost always meant as pejorative. If you don't want to be insulting, you say "Jewish" for the adjective.
Now, is that logical, when, for example, "Catholic" can do double-duty as both a noun and an adjective, without being taken as offensive? Maybe not, but it is the way the usage has evolved: people who use "Jew" that way do so because they WANT to be viewed as hostile to Jews.
And this is not meant as comment on Cave Dweller's attitude toward Jews, as it's possible that someone could innocently pick up that usage without realizing the implications. But, yes, as far as forums like this go, it is a usage that should be discouraged. |
Teacher's pet. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| ersatzredux wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| We are not after everything someone says, but it was clear that CD had an attitude; he wasn't showing an iota of professionalism. Imagine if he said to a Jew in the US, "Hey, Dan, is Rosh Hashana a jew holiday?". How would that sound? And he didn't capitalize the word "Jew". That would lead one to conclude that he is trolling and trying to disparage Jews. We're not trying to retaliate. We got a report. It was viewed as offensive. If you're purposely looking to target Jews or whatever group, it violates the TOS. If you are not purposely trying to do so, and that's clear, that's another issue. Yes, there are grey areas that are hard to deal with. We're not trying to muzzle users. Have a good one. |
I think I can state with some degree of assurance that the word "Jew", used as an adjective, is almost always meant as pejorative. If you don't want to be insulting, you say "Jewish" for the adjective.
Now, is that logical, when, for example, "Catholic" can do double-duty as both a noun and an adjective, without being taken as offensive? Maybe not, but it is the way the usage has evolved: people who use "Jew" that way do so because they WANT to be viewed as hostile to Jews.
And this is not meant as comment on Cave Dweller's attitude toward Jews, as it's possible that someone could innocently pick up that usage without realizing the implications. But, yes, as far as forums like this go, it is a usage that should be discouraged. |
Teacher's pet. |
Oh, hey, if you wanna be the class rebel, and start incorporating "Jew" as an adjective into your everyday speech habits, go ahead. I look forward to your reports on what impact that has on your social status and career aspirations. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, hey, if you wanna be the class rebel, and start incorporating "Jew" as an adjective into your everyday speech habits, go ahead. I look forward to your reports on what impact that has on your social status and career aspirations |
Butthurt...butthurt everywhere. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
Oh, hey, if you wanna be the class rebel, and start incorporating "Jew" as an adjective into your everyday speech habits, go ahead. I look forward to your reports on what impact that has on your social status and career aspirations. |
Exactly: comply or be destroyed. It doesn't matter how trivial the infraction -- or if the infraction is really an infraction at all, which in this case, it was not, and the people coming down on Cave Dweller for not capitalizing "Jew" didn't seem to care that Junior didn't capitalize "Muslim" just a few posts before that -- all that matters is that form is kept. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| On the other hand wrote: |
Oh, hey, if you wanna be the class rebel, and start incorporating "Jew" as an adjective into your everyday speech habits, go ahead. I look forward to your reports on what impact that has on your social status and career aspirations. |
Exactly: comply or be destroyed. It doesn't matter how trivial the infraction -- or if the infraction is really an infraction at all, which in this case, it was not, and the people coming down on Cave Dweller for not capitalizing "Jew" didn't seem to care that Junior didn't capitalize "Muslim" just a few posts before that -- all that matters is that form is kept. |
Yes. Cave Dweller made a rude comment with negative ethnic connotations and it was explained why it was rude and he was politely asked to stop.
The tyranny of egalitarianism ... or something. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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I still don't see how any clear-thinking individual can read what Cave Dweller wrote and conclude either that he was trying to be rude or that he had any kind of "negative ethnic connotations" in mind. Did he suddenly decide he wanted to disparage the Jews in a thread about Muslim holidays in New York City, yet simultaneously feel too timid to use a word which would express that disparagement in unambiguous fashion? Does anyone really believe that? Maybe so, but if so, I think it reflects more on such a person than it would on our Cave Dweller here.
Yes, this is a private forum, and the moderators can censor or ban whoever they like, there's no denying that. It's also true that there is an immense amount of social pressure to partake in this witch hunt, which is precisely why I'd feel a coward if I didn't speak out against it situations like this, where it's so obviously in error. |
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trueblue
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Location: In between the lines
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| Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I beleive Fox is spot on.
It is good to know that there are still those who are free from the PC police. |
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