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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| The question still stands- What did you do? We all know the answer. Jack. atwoods prayers and the dog soup are better than anything you've offered. |
How so? How is feeling bad for the ambassador, but realizing there's nothing I can actively do to help his situation, any less than offering him "snake oil" in the form of dog meat or prayer? In reality we've made exactly the same contribution to his recovery. Zero. The comical thing is that Atwood and the old dude are delusional enough to thing they've (potentially) contributed more. I accept that I have contributed nothing. And neither have they.
For Atwood (or anyone) to think they have such influence on the universe that a few mumbled words before bed or a meal can make a difference in the world is profoundly arrogant. Indeed, it's narcissistic to the point of absurdity. The ambassador is in the hands of medical professionals. They will determine the rate and extend to which he recovers. Not mumbo jumbo or the miraculous healing powers of tortured dog.
I can't believe this needs explaining.`Would Smithington uttering a prayer help speed up his recovery? Or would it just make me feel better about myself while contributing nothing to his recovery. I think we all know the answer. At least I do. |
At least they made some kind of attempt at something. Whether atwood's prayers were effective or not, I don't know. But at least he tried. Same with the old guy. There were no costs to their "failure" beyond their time.
And people appreciate nice gestures, even if they are ill-conceived. That's why you hug grandma when she gives you a bad sweater. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| At least they made some kind of attempt at something. Whether atwood's prayers were effective or not, I don't know. But at least he tried. |
So, witch doctors, howling at the moon, praying to my neighbor's chihuahua, throwing salt over my shoulder are all fine because I'm "making an effort"? Okey dokey. Reality-based responses to developments and primitive, superstitious responses are now to be placed on the same shelf. And the reason is because we don't know if the shaman's spell will be effective or not. Or praying to that chihuahua. So let's go ahead and do it. It just might work. And there just might be a giant, purple butterfly holding the earth in place. Let's send some prayers in that direction too. Just in case. Or is it just prayers to a bronze-age Hebrew desert god that might get through?
Ridiculous. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| At least they made some kind of attempt at something. Whether atwood's prayers were effective or not, I don't know. But at least he tried. |
So, witch doctors, howling at the moon, praying to my neighbor's chihuahua, throwing salt over my shoulder are all fine because I'm "making an effort"? Okey dokey. Reality-based responses to developments and primitive, superstitious responses are now to be placed on the same shelf. And the reason is because we don't know if the shaman's spell will be effective or not. Or praying to that chihuahua. So let's go ahead and do it. It just might work. And there just might be a giant, purple butterfly holding the earth in place. Let's send some prayers in that direction too. Just in case. Or is it just prayers to a bronze-age Hebrew desert god that might get through?
Ridiculous. |
No, we look at the intent, feelings, and emotions behind someone's actions. That someone chooses a potentially scientifically invalid method of expressing compassion for someone does not eliminate the compassion behind their actions. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| No, we look at the intent, feelings, and emotions behind someone's actions. That someone chooses a potentially scientifically invalid method of expressing compassion for someone does not eliminate the compassion behind their actions. |
Potentially invalid....is a tad generous...no?
Compassion is one thing...and we may all have that for those who are injured in one way or another.
Suggesting that prayer is a means of expressing compassion is irrelevant.
I hoped he would get better.
I prayed for him.
I wished him well.
All thought based intentions...one as ineffective as the other.
None approaching the reality of the effectiveness of a bowl of warm soup. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
I can't believe this needs explaining.`Would Smithington uttering a prayer help speed up his recovery? Or would it just make me feel better about myself while contributing nothing to his recovery. I think we all know the answer. At least I do. |
I do not see how criticizing people for praying for others, when you haven't done anything affirmative to help those others yourself, places you in a superior moral position. In this respect, it is similar to refusing to believe in a God and criticizing those who do.
It just makes you look like a disputatious and argumentative jerk.
If you don't think prayer is effective, I get it. Unless anyone asks you to pray, there is no reason to come down on them for expressing sympathy in this way. |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| EZE wrote: |
| The old man sounds like a really nice guy. He's from an older generation in another culture. When we become elderly, a lot of the things we'll do will seem outdated and archaic to younger generations, especially younger generations in other countries. |
I am in my early forties, and it seems twenty somethings are very different. My friends all married their wives before children were born. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
I do not see how criticizing people for praying for others, when you haven't done anything affirmative to help those others yourself, places you in a superior moral position. In this respect, it is similar to refusing to believe in a God and criticizing those who do.
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Perhaps moral superiority is not a position he is trying to attain. The proper adjective in that lexical position he is quite likely to be after is 'intellectual'.
As in...intellectual superiority.
I do not see how criticizing people for praying for others, when you haven't done anything affirmative to help those others yourself, places you in a superior intellectual position.
And even at that...positioning seems like what you are doing...he was merely criticizing.
It is quite interesting how those who 'believe' often use the word moral to interject spurious meaning.
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| It just makes you look like a disputatious and argumentative jerk. |
No doubt about it...especially if he disagrees with what you say.
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| If you don't think prayer is effective, I get it. Unless anyone asks you to pray, there is no reason to come down on them for expressing sympathy in this way. |
Not to sure about this one. Who should be the one to tell children who have been lied to that there is no Santa Clause? |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| Am I the only one that can't figure out whether or not The Cosmic Hum is trying to invoke Poe's law? Given her history of contempt towards the religious I'm inclined to think not, but the irony in this post is just a little too obvious. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Am I the only one that can't figure out whether or not The Cosmic Hum is trying to invoke Poe's law? Given her history of contempt towards the religious I'm inclined to think not, but the irony in this post is just a little too obvious. |
"Weeds are flowers, too, once you get to know them."
The 'her' part was cute...but you can do better than that.
And not to be too pendantic...but you spelled Pooh wrong...no worries on that...but great philosopher, indeed.
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My spelling is Wobbly. It's good spelling but it Wobbles, and the letters get in the wrong places.
-- Winnie the Pooh |
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The hardest part is what to leave behind, ... It's time to let go!
-- Winnie the Pooh |
Cheers |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| What? |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Who should be the one to tell children who have been lied to that there is no Santa Clause? |
Aren't there three? |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
I do not see how criticizing people for praying for others, when you haven't done anything affirmative to help those others yourself, places you in a superior moral position. In this respect, it is similar to refusing to believe in a God and criticizing those who do.
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Perhaps moral superiority is not a position he is trying to attain. The proper adjective in that lexical position he is quite likely to be after is 'intellectual'.
As in...intellectual superiority.
I do not see how criticizing people for praying for others, when you haven't done anything affirmative to help those others yourself, places you in a superior intellectual position.
And even at that...positioning seems like what you are doing...he was merely criticizing.
It is quite interesting how those who 'believe' often use the word moral to interject spurious meaning.
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| It just makes you look like a disputatious and argumentative jerk. |
No doubt about it...especially if he disagrees with what you say.
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| If you don't think prayer is effective, I get it. Unless anyone asks you to pray, there is no reason to come down on them for expressing sympathy in this way. |
Not to sure about this one. Who should be the one to tell children who have been lied to that there is no Santa Clause? |
If anti-theism can maintain any pretence to intellectual superiority, the attack on theism remains intellectual effort squandered.
I am told Dawkins has instructed his disciples that the Western canon is full of theological and philosophical treatises, as well as literature and other works of art, which reference or even rely somewhat on theistic principles or beliefs. But I very much doubt those who read Dawkins have grappled with many of these. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
If anti-theism can maintain any pretence to intellectual superiority, the attack on theism remains intellectual effort squandered. |
Yeah...good point.
Seems more like sport hunting akin to shooting fish in a barrel. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| The Cosmic Hum wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
If anti-theism can maintain any pretence to intellectual superiority, the attack on theism remains intellectual effort squandered. |
Yeah...good point.
Seems more like sport hunting akin to shooting fish in a barrel. |
Whatever is superior about not believing in God? It is a childish conceit. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Whatever is superior about not believing in God? It is a childish conceit. |
Not believing in gods(God is just one of many) isn't about being superior.
Being superior is what God is on about.
Childish indeed. No argument there. |
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