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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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happyinhenan
Joined: 01 Feb 2015
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:46 am Post subject: |
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[quote="EZE"]
The standard is what the Koreans prefer. |
It is the standard that most Koreans prefer.
History, neo-colonialism, immigration - all understandable by the way, I have nothing against their obsession with NA English.
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Because it's how they want to speak their English. My accent is generally considered substandard for an English teacher in South Korea. That's the reality, whether I like it or not. I wish my accent was the gold standard in ESL classrooms in Korea, but if wishes were Rolls Royces, the poor would be riding in them. |
Right - all that is fine, but it still doesn't make an accent neutral - it is still Midwest (or Midland) North American.
And the reason American teachers get work over teachers from the UK, South Africa, Australia, NZ, Canada and Ireland in Korea is because their accent and the way they speak is very distinct - therefore - it cannot be neutral - obviously.
I won't argue what the Koreans prefer, but if an English teacher (ha!) claims to have 'no accent' or 'a neutral accent' then they are morons with very shaky knowledge on the language they are teaching.
Now, if you can find any North American dialectologist who claims that there is 'no accent' or a 'neutral' accent that exists, then bring something here, such as a link. |
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Newbie

Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 7:44 am Post subject: |
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EZE wrote: |
happyinhenan wrote: |
Yeah you could, they are from the United States - this is a global world, not 'World America' if an American (or a Canadian) speaks to me, I can tell the difference. |
You can sometimes tell the difference. You can easily distinguish someone from Louisiana or Brooklyn from a Canadian, but you can't tell someone from North Dakota from someone from Manitoba.
When I had three Canadian co-workers, two of them thought they sounded a lot different than Americans. One of them said Canadians sound more like British than Americans. To me, I could tell they weren't from Dixie, NYC, or Boston, but all three of them sounded exactly the same as people from Ohio, Colorado, California, Minnesota, Alaska and many other places in the USA.
The thing is, folks in the eastern regions of North America have been there for a while so distinct regional and local accents have developed. The westward migration was relatively recent. Whether it was people going westward for land, for gold, or from the long arm of the law, the opportunities attracted many people from many different regions of the USA and Canada, causing the spoken English in a very large part of the USA and Canada to be the amalgamation often referred to as "the neutral North American accent." |
This seems pretty bang on. (apart from the Canadian who thought they sound more British than American. They're on crack)
People from the Southern US have a very unique sound and it's easy to identify them as American. People from Chicago and area have a very distinct sound (they hold their As) and you can easily tell they're American.
People from Newfoundland have a unique sound, and people from other Maritime provinces have a distinct sound and you can easily tell they're Canadian.
But people from Toronto, Ottawa, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Vancouver, and people from New York State, Michigan, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, California, Alaska, etc. all pretty much sound the same and this sound is what Korean's and some people would refer to as "neutral."
It is of course "an accent" but I think it's not too far fetched to say it's also a "neutral accent." I cant' say for sure, but I don't think Brits, Aussies, Irish etc. have ANY problems listening to and understanding North Americans with this "neutral" accent. Similarly, I'd think someone learning English finds this the easiest to understand. |
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happyinhenan
Joined: 01 Feb 2015
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Look up 'Canadian shift'.
There might be similarities - but the way people from Toronto and Detroit or Chicago speak is quite distinct.
Granted - to the untrained ear - someone from Toronto and Chicago sound the same, but a lot of Americans think an Aussie and a Londoner sound the same - so, a layperson isn't really that knowledgeable on dialectology to make accurate distinctions between different accents - no offence to you or the other posters who have contributed on this thread.
And it is - not far fetched, but wildly inaccurate - to describe an accent that has a distinctive geographical stamp (North American) as 'neutral'. |
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FMPJ
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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EZE wrote: |
You can easily distinguish someone from Louisiana or Brooklyn from a Canadian, but you can't tell someone from North Dakota from someone from Manitoba. |
Don't be silly; there aren't any people in North Dakota. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, population grew 9.9% over four years. Personal income is up 7.6% in the past year. People are going there for high paying jobs. |
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metalhead
Joined: 18 May 2010 Location: Toilet
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 4:21 am Post subject: |
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Must suck being one of those Canadians who sound exactly like Americans when they speak, total lack of identity and truly America's little 51st state. Better to have an accent unique to the country you come from than be a wannabe clone of another country. |
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Adam Carolla
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 7:47 am Post subject: |
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World Traveler wrote: |
Actually, population grew 9.9% over four years. Personal income is up 7.6% in the past year. People are going there for high paying jobs. |
Well, they *were*. Rough times at the moment for a lot of people. Comes with the industry though. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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drydell wrote: |
The question is not which is the best accent - the question is which is the accent that gets the ladies weak in the knees! and that - I'm afraid American cousins is where you are left wanting.. It's a trade off really - the education system doesn't favour us Brits but the ladies do.. |
There's something to this ... women do prefer the British accent. My wife certainly pokes me with her preference for the British accent and British fashion, but I'm not British, and she ended up with me, so its obviously not everything.
(Also, I'm told other Americans get along well with ladies in the UK, so again, there's something to this but its not dispositive). |
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Bongotruck
Joined: 19 Mar 2015
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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must suck to be the 51st state with the best standard of living and higher life expectancy.
metalhead wrote: |
Must suck being one of those Canadians who sound exactly like Americans when they speak, total lack of identity and truly America's little 51st state. Better to have an accent unique to the country you come from than be a wannabe clone of another country. |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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It's not really the case that Canada is superior. Life expectancy for whites is the same in both countries. The difference is the U.S. has many more non whites than Canada (not necessarily because the U.S. is a better place to live but because of geographical proximity). The impoverished Mexican/South American immigrants pull down the average as do gangbangers who kill each other in drive by shootings.
Is Canada inferior to the U.S.? I would say no. It is superior (as so many like to believe/assert)? Again I would say no. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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World Traveler wrote: |
It's not really the case that Canada is superior. Life expectancy for whites is the same in both countries. The difference is the U.S. has many more non whites than Canada (not necessarily because the U.S. is a better place to live but because of geographical proximity). The impoverished Mexican/South American immigrants pull down the average as do gangbangers who kill each other in drive by shootings.
Is Canada inferior to the U.S.? I would say no. It is superior (as so many like to believe/assert)? Again I would say no. |
I think the more important question is: why does every thread you enter turn into some manner of a nationalist pissing contest? |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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happyinhenan wrote: |
I won't argue what the Koreans prefer, but if an English teacher (ha!) claims to have 'no accent' or 'a neutral accent' then they are morons with very shaky knowledge on the language they are teaching.
Now, if you can find any North American dialectologist who claims that there is 'no accent' or a 'neutral' accent that exists, then bring something here, such as a link. |
North American dialectologists aren't doing the hiring. They aren't the moms of Korean children either. The opinions of dialectologists, you, and me are irrelevant. The Koreans have a standard accent they're looking for and we're all measured against it whether we like it or not.
In Korea, all else equal, someone from Alaska will get hired before me because they speak with "the Midwestern accent." The way Alaskans speak sounds normal to Koreans and the way I speak is considered a very strong deviation from the norm. Sure, we can say, "But! But! But my accent is the normal one in my hometown!" all day long. That's true, but we're not in our hometowns. We're in Korea and their perspective is the only one that matters when it comes to who gets hired and who doesn't. |
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happyinhenan
Joined: 01 Feb 2015
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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EZE wrote: |
Now, if you can find any North American dialectologist who claims that there is 'no accent' or a 'neutral' accent that exists, then bring something here, such as a link. |
North American dialectologists aren't doing the hiring. They aren't the moms of Korean children either. The opinions of dialectologists, you, and me are irrelevant. The Koreans have a standard accent they're looking for and we're all measured against it whether we like it or not.[/quote]
If American accents are the ones in vogue and the ones that the Koreans want (not arguing about that by the way, the reasons are valid and there are lots of excellent American teachers) then how does that make those accents 'neutral'?
The reason why Americans get hired is because they have a very distinctive accent - surely?
There is a difference between 'Koreans prefer American accented teachers' to 'Americans get hired because they don't have an accent'.
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In Korea, all else equal, someone from Alaska will get hired before me because they speak with "the Midwestern accent." The way Alaskans speak sounds normal to Koreans and the way I speak is considered a very strong deviation from the norm. Sure, we can say, "But! But! But my accent is the normal one in my hometown!" all day long. |
The problem is, when discussing this subject - you have no idea what you are talking about.
Again, most Americans can't differentiate between a Londoner and an Australian - never mind an Australian and a New Zealander.
Basically speaking, what you think sounds the same to your ear actually isn't. I would bet that an Alaskan and someone from Illinois have a lot of differences between the way they speak. Not to you - but you are a layman.
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That's true, but we're not in our hometowns. We're in Korea and their perspective is the only one that matters when it comes to who gets hired and who doesn't. |
Again - you are missing the point, or you are missing my point.
The point is - Americans have a distinctive accent.
When an American says they have a 'neutral' or 'no accent' they are wrong, they have a distinctive accent, that is the reason they get hired because Korean students are very much into accent mimicking.
The problem is with a lot of Americans is like I am tone deaf when it comes to my singing - they are 'accent deaf' and what they think sounds the same is actually not.
Lots of Americans cannot differentiate between a London accent and a generic Australian accent.
They cannot do it, why? Who knows.
So, if Johnny Yank and says, 'oh yeah, a Californian and an Alaskan sound exactly the same' does not mean they actually do. That a lot of them say they have 'no accent' shows how ignorant they are when it comes to the basics of linguistics - or dialectology, which is linguistics 101 anyway.  |
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happyinhenan
Joined: 01 Feb 2015
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Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Plain Meaning wrote: |
drydell wrote: |
The question is not which is the best accent - the question is which is the accent that gets the ladies weak in the knees! and that - I'm afraid American cousins is where you are left wanting.. It's a trade off really - the education system doesn't favour us Brits but the ladies do.. |
There's something to this ... women do prefer the British accent. My wife certainly pokes me with her preference for the British accent and British fashion, but I'm not British, and she ended up with me, so its obviously not everything.
(Also, I'm told other Americans get along well with ladies in the UK, so again, there's something to this but its not dispositive). |
American men do very well with British women - which goes back to world war 2 - my Auntie married a GI - if any American is having a lady drought at home, a trip to the UK would do the trick.  |
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