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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Often it seems that people's motives for this tax is based upon resentment/jealousy and that is one part that makes me skeptical of it. |
I'm calling BS on this staid talking point. Name names and quote posts. |
Not specifically this site, but say, website comments. |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Geldedgoat loves me not. |
The concern was sincere, even if framed sarcastically. You don't see me asking what tragedy might have befallen your other ideological allies here namely because I've not been witness to a similar degradation of intellectual honesty, consistency, or compassion. Something traumatic clearly happened, and I was simply curious if you were willing to be honest about it.
| Quote: |
| I have done precisely zero work in estate tax, but I'm used to spurious attacks on my profession. |
Just before I wrote that I read your post elsewhere stating that you were newly moved to Singapore, so your specific field of law would clearly not benefit you financially from this hostility towards farm estates. Rather, the self-interest to which I was referring was one of professional conceit, that the possibility of legal intervention should be sufficient to allay any concerns about the fairness or efficiency of your blind and heavy-handed treatment of these people and their property. Having lawyers handy to rescue someone from the law - albeit for a fee - doesn't justify placing the individual in that position in the first place.
| Quote: |
| There are plenty of reasons to support a robust estate tax, and there are many on this thread who also support it who are not lawyers. |
I don't know to what degree I'd agree with your definition of 'robust,' but that aside I am also a supporter of the estate tax. Similar to our past discussion about minimum wage, just because I disagree with your approach because of who it may unjustly hurt, does not mean I disagree with the broader concept.
And since it's been mentioned, yes, family farms are usually able to avoid succumbing to the estate tax (though the million dollar cut-off before did make it particularly tricky), but for a reason: property values of family farms are usually not reassessed routinely in the same manner as residential property, so they are passed down largely according to whatever price for which they were originally bought decades ago. Treat them as regular liquid assets like you seem to want, revalued according to current market pressures, and you absolutely would see the decimation of family farmland. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Often it seems that people's motives for this tax is based upon resentment/jealousy and that is one part that makes me skeptical of it. |
I'm calling BS on this staid talking point. Name names and quote posts. |
Not specifically this site, but say, website comments. |
If one judges any policy by "website comments," one is going to be well positioned to declare some sort of underlying character deficiency regarding that policy. Surely that's more of an issue with that particular medium than anything. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
Often it seems that people's motives for this tax is based upon resentment/jealousy and that is one part that makes me skeptical of it. |
I'm calling BS on this staid talking point. Name names and quote posts. |
Not specifically this site, but say, website comments. |
If one judges any policy by "website comments," one is going to be well positioned to declare some sort of underlying character deficiency regarding that policy. Surely that's more of an issue with that particular medium than anything. |
I just went to YouTube and determined that the moon landing was indeed faked and racism is A-OK! |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Geldedgoat loves me not. |
The concern was sincere, even if framed sarcastically. You don't see me asking what tragedy might have befallen your other ideological allies here namely because I've not been witness to a similar degradation of intellectual honesty, consistency, or compassion. Something traumatic clearly happened, and I was simply curious if you were willing to be honest about it.
| Quote: |
| I have done precisely zero work in estate tax, but I'm used to spurious attacks on my profession. |
Just before I wrote that I read your post elsewhere stating that you were newly moved to Singapore, so your specific field of law would clearly not benefit you financially from this hostility towards farm estates. Rather, the self-interest to which I was referring was one of professional conceit, that the possibility of legal intervention should be sufficient to allay any concerns about the fairness or efficiency of your blind and heavy-handed treatment of these people and their property. Having lawyers handy to rescue someone from the law - albeit for a fee - doesn't justify placing the individual in that position in the first place.
| Quote: |
| There are plenty of reasons to support a robust estate tax, and there are many on this thread who also support it who are not lawyers. |
I don't know to what degree I'd agree with your definition of 'robust,' but that aside I am also a supporter of the estate tax. Similar to our past discussion about minimum wage, just because I disagree with your approach because of who it may unjustly hurt, does not mean I disagree with the broader concept.
And since it's been mentioned, yes, family farms are usually able to avoid succumbing to the estate tax (though the million dollar cut-off before did make it particularly tricky), but for a reason: property values of family farms are usually not reassessed routinely in the same manner as residential property, so they are passed down largely according to whatever price for which they were originally bought decades ago. Treat them as regular liquid assets like you seem to want, revalued according to current market pressures, and you absolutely would see the decimation of family farmland. |
Family farms survive because of government subsidies, so how much special treatment should we be giving this particular venture? Subsidize their survival, treat them differently in terms of estate taxes, etc.? I get the sentiment behind it, preserve something that has been passed through families, and it seems in some way to be in line with some conception of how America should be. But lets be honest when trying to portray family farms as some kind of victim of government policy. |
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Plain Meaning
Joined: 18 Oct 2014
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| Plain Meaning wrote: |
| Geldedgoat loves me not. |
The concern was sincere, even if framed sarcastically. You don't see me asking what tragedy might have befallen your other ideological allies here namely because I've not been witness to a similar degradation of intellectual honesty, consistency, or compassion. Something traumatic clearly happened, and I was simply curious if you were willing to be honest about it.
| Quote: |
| I have done precisely zero work in estate tax, but I'm used to spurious attacks on my profession. |
Just before I wrote that I read your post elsewhere stating that you were newly moved to Singapore, so your specific field of law would clearly not benefit you financially from this hostility towards farm estates. Rather, the self-interest to which I was referring was one of professional conceit, that the possibility of legal intervention should be sufficient to allay any concerns about the fairness or efficiency of your blind and heavy-handed treatment of these people and their property. Having lawyers handy to rescue someone from the law - albeit for a fee - doesn't justify placing the individual in that position in the first place.
| Quote: |
| There are plenty of reasons to support a robust estate tax, and there are many on this thread who also support it who are not lawyers. |
I don't know to what degree I'd agree with your definition of 'robust,' but that aside I am also a supporter of the estate tax. Similar to our past discussion about minimum wage, just because I disagree with your approach because of who it may unjustly hurt, does not mean I disagree with the broader concept.
And since it's been mentioned, yes, family farms are usually able to avoid succumbing to the estate tax (though the million dollar cut-off before did make it particularly tricky), but for a reason: property values of family farms are usually not reassessed routinely in the same manner as residential property, so they are passed down largely according to whatever price for which they were originally bought decades ago. Treat them as regular liquid assets like you seem to want, revalued according to current market pressures, and you absolutely would see the decimation of family farmland. |
Look, before you go off psychoanalyzing me, why don't we be certain about what my position is on this thread.
I support a robust estate tax, which means low exemptions ($1 million at most) and serious rates (55% is fine). I also have no problems with the host of exemptions and relief measures aimed at keeping family farms. That said, they are exemptions, and that means the family farmer would need to qualify for the exemptions, and in that case an estate lawyer would be best.
One more time: I support the qualified conservation easement, the special-use valuation of real property, and the installment payment of estate taxes. |
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EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
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| Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Family farms survive because of government subsidies. |
You're thinking of corporate farms. I don't personally know anyone who gets a subsidy or has ever gotten one. |
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